"You're ruining my movie!"

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-13 07:33pm

Lucas said of "Empire Building" and "Skywalking" (his biography) that they're about as truthful as a supermarket tabloid. However, the excerpt from Empire Building was first published in "Once upon a Galaxy" (Making of TESB) years before Empire Building. I like that book better; the author was actually there and witnessed all the blowups between Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford, and Mark Hamill almost walking off the set. Empire Building is nothing but a bunch of hearsay cobbled together from other sources.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-13 07:50pm

Why'd Mark Hamill get a bee in his bonnet?

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-13 07:53pm

I'm not surprised that Lucas didn't like Empire Building. It doesn't pull a lot of punches.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-13 08:48pm

Vympel wrote:Why'd Mark Hamill get a bee in his bonnet?

IIRC, he was having a dispute with Kershner over what Luke should be doing during the Vader fight, got pissed, and stormed off the set for a while. Later he came back and apologized, saying all the heat and smoke in the room made him throw a star tantrum.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-13 08:53pm

Lord Poe wrote: IIRC, he was having a dispute with Kershner over what Luke should be doing during the Vader fight, got pissed, and stormed off the set for a while. Later he came back and apologized, saying all the heat and smoke in the room made him throw a star tantrum.

Didn't Hamill also think that he should go over to the Dark Side in ROTJ?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-13 09:25pm

Vympel wrote:Didn't Hamill also think that he should go over to the Dark Side in ROTJ?

I haven't heard that one, before. I did hear that Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die in ROTJ. There's a making of ROTJ book as well, but its an in-house fluff-piece.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-13 10:11pm

Here's another one from Empire Building of one of the blow-ups between Ford and Fisher...

[Harrison Ford] eventually came up with a line in which Leia says, "I love you," and Han replied simply, "I know." "Beautiful and acceptable and funny," he told Kershner who, once more bowed to the actor's undoubted gift for improvisation.

Fisher, as insecure in her ability to extemporize as Ford was secure in his, flew into a rage when he told her about the changes. She was heard in his dressing room screaming and shouting at him.

Later she admitted: "He is very angry with me. And he has a total right to be. I should never have done that."

Then she attacked Kershner for not telling her of the changes before Ford had. "I got mad at him and it screws us up," she moaned.

Fisher's occasional tantrums were by now familiar. "She could be very funny when she was on top form, but she could also be a real down-and-out grouch," said Peter Mayhew.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-13 10:12pm

Lost in all this Lucas-bashing is the fact that Lucas did eventually concede that Kirschner's cut was better and that he had erred before, despite the enormous stresses that he was under.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-13 10:17pm

Galvatron wrote:Here's another one from Empire Building of one of the blow-ups between Ford and Fisher...

snip

This book is shameless when it comes to lifting stuff out of other books.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-13 10:27pm

Well, as long as the author keeps his facts straight I don't mind him referencing events previously documented in other sources.

He does credit Once Upon a Galaxy at the top of his bibliography, BTW.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-13 10:38pm

Ghost Rider wrote:That and he's said numerous times he never liked ESB...and something of funny to note. Ford had to ad-lib "I Know" has to be my absolute favortie point of dialogue. When the actor knows the character better, it's a not a good sign for the writer.

Ford also ad-libbed "don't get cocky!" and the blasting of the console in the detention area bit in ANH.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-14 09:30am

Lord Poe wrote:
Vympel wrote:Didn't Hamill also think that he should go over to the Dark Side in ROTJ?
I haven't heard that one, before. I did hear that Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die in ROTJ. There's a making of ROTJ book as well, but its an in-house fluff-piece.

After what the EU turned Han Solo into, can you blame him? The coolest character in SW is turned into Al Bundy in space. Better to be shot by stormtroopers.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-14 09:37am

Vympel wrote:Why'd Mark Hamill get a bee in his bonnet?

He was also miffed at spending a large part of the movie interacting with a muppet.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2005-03-14 03:57pm

Elfdart wrote: Speaking of Kazanjian, I'm sure just about everyone agrees that the two Indiana Jones sequels were way inferior to Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Actually, I would say that Last Crusade was a much more fun movie to watch and kept more in the spirit and style of the old action serials... I thought Raiders of the Lost Ark was pretty muddled and slow for much of the movie. And ESB was better than all of the Indiana Jones movies.

In either case, Lucas has a proven track record of sucking whenever he makes a movie that doesn't involve Kurtz or Spielberg or anyone else who can cover for his hamfisted ineptness.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-03-14 04:20pm

Vympel wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: IIRC, he was having a dispute with Kershner over what Luke should be doing during the Vader fight, got pissed, and stormed off the set for a while. Later he came back and apologized, saying all the heat and smoke in the room made him throw a star tantrum.
Didn't Hamill also think that he should go over to the Dark Side in ROTJ?

Yes, that's true. In an interview in an issue of the Starlog magazine (I believe it was from 1997 during the SW 20th Anniversary / Special Editions hype), Hamill said that he had imagined ROTJ to be much darker, with Luke turning to the Dark Side. Of course, I've heard it elsewhere, but this is the only source I can pin down.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-14 04:26pm

Mange the Swede wrote:
Vympel wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: IIRC, he was having a dispute with Kershner over what Luke should be doing during the Vader fight, got pissed, and stormed off the set for a while. Later he came back and apologized, saying all the heat and smoke in the room made him throw a star tantrum.
Didn't Hamill also think that he should go over to the Dark Side in ROTJ?
Yes, that's true. In an interview in an issue of the Starlog magazine (I believe it was from 1997 during the SW 20th Anniversary / Special Editions hype), Hamill said that he had imagined ROTJ to be much darker, with Luke turning to the Dark Side. Of course, I've heard it elsewhere, but this is the only source I can pin down.

Hamill might be mixing it up with the earlier ideas that ROTJ would end with Luke turning to the darkside and Leia's children or something like that saving him in the follow up trilogy. That was the original concept I read somewhere before Lucas tied it all up in ROTJ.

I think Han was supposed to die, Leia was never Luke's sister but didn't end up with Luke instead went off to become queen of her people or something and Luke was a darksider.

Then the third sequel would be about the redemption of Luke or something like that.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-14 06:45pm

Stravo wrote:Hamill might be mixing it up with the earlier ideas that ROTJ would end with Luke turning to the darkside and Leia's children or something like that saving him in the follow up trilogy. That was the original concept I read somewhere before Lucas tied it all up in ROTJ.

Most likely true. Lucas was going through a divorce at the time, and I have an old interview (somewhere) where he was considering selling off the SW franchise to 20th Century Fox.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-03-14 10:50pm

Stravo wrote: Hamill might be mixing it up with the earlier ideas that ROTJ would end with Luke turning to the darkside and Leia's children or something like that saving him in the follow up trilogy. That was the original concept I read somewhere before Lucas tied it all up in ROTJ.

Ah! the aproychal "third prophecy". However, Lucas has since denied any such thing, even when he was still talking about a 3 trilogy movie.

Still, the orginal concept of Leia becoming a queen did come to fulfilment in the EU, ergo, Chief of the New Republic and the idea of salvation seems to have come about in the NJO.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-14 11:03pm

That's right, the whole third trilogy that was never intended, like the war against Eurasia. Or was that Eastasia?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-03-14 11:08pm

Stravo wrote:Then the third sequel would be about the redemption of Luke or something like that.

Curious. I read from Gary Kurtz that the 3rd trilogy would be about Luke looking for and finding his sister, who was a force user in her own right (Leia = Luke's sister wasn't in the original idea, which you've already referenced). Both would combine to defeat the Emperor. Leia would be forgotten as she becomes Queen of her people. Han would have died IIRC.

But I never read that Luke would become a darksider and the third trilogy would concern his redemption.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-15 12:27am

Galvatron wrote:That's right, the whole third trilogy that was never intended, like the war against Eurasia. Or was that Eastasia?

Isn't it kind of a low blow to bust Lucas' balls over something he might have considered doing at one point and later dropped? The fact that he wrapped up the story with ROTJ means he was most likely going to stop the series there, with only the prequels left. In other words, almost 25 years ago he decided not to do a third trilogy!

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-15 12:46am

No more of a low blow than to call bullshit on some of the other intentions he supposedly had from the very beginning, like Greedo shooting first.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-15 04:53am

Mark Hamill said in a recent interview that while on set for ANH or ESB Lucas joked about needing him back in 20 years to do more. None of them seemed to take it seriously, so I guess it was an on/off serious/nonserious thing.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-15 04:59am

Elfdart wrote:
Vympel wrote:Why'd Mark Hamill get a bee in his bonnet?
He was also miffed at spending a large part of the movie interacting with a muppet.

That's kinda really funny; dude I'm Luke Skywalker okay? I'm a badass Jedi who has telekenisis and telepathy aswell as being able to talk to dead people, you can't have me interacting the whole time with a MUPPET!

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-15 10:35am

Galvatron wrote:And Kershner has dogs like Never Say Never Again and Robocop 2 to his credit. How does that change the fact that Kurtz and Kershner were both integral to the success of TESB?

Robocop 2 was great. I'll still stop whatever I'm doing to watch it if it's on TV just for the scene with the two Robocop 2 prototypes going batshit.