Q vs? Umm? Can anything beat Q?

[Assassin X]

Ok. A long time ago me and my friend for weeks did do this ST vs SW tihng comparing every thing to everything else.

Well eventually we got to charecters and we got high up there on the list and i forgot who he said but i repliad back "Q". And he nodded his head and agreed.

Is Q beatable by anyone in either universe?

Lets just assume both universe were one or something so Q could go to both. Because im sure someone would say the Continuum doesnt exist in SW.

So is he beatable?

[Robert Walper]

This is a topic of some debate, but I believe the consensus thus far is Q's abilities are nothing more than tricks of technology, and he is as mortal and killable as any human.

PS: You might want to keep the new threads per minute down a bit here, Assasin, don't wanna get them locked or anything for spamming the forum.

[brianeyci]

No. The consensus is that Q's feats are probably technology, consistent with Trek's portrayal of god-like species as having advanced technology.

Doesn't prove that Q's feats are tricks. What it does do is place limits on what Q can do. He is not a god.

Q can be defeated. Q weapons prove that.

Brian

[Aaron]

Given that the Emperor is the most powerful person in the SW galaxy, he could probably beat Q.

[Robert Walper]

Given that the Emperor is the most powerful person in the SW galaxy, he could probably beat Q.

It would be interesting to see Palpatine deal with being transported into deep space...the Q possess some impressive mind tricks as well. Amanda Rogers effortlessly made Commander Riker think he was deeply in love with her, and her abilities were those of an amatuer Q.

[brianeyci]

There's no way to quantify whether or not The Force would work on Q or Q's powers would work on Palpatine. Let's assume they both work.

"Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Palpatine has precog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Q'z haz teleport!!!!shift-111!!!!!"

Who cares. Useless to debate this.

Brian

[Aaron]

It would be interesting to see Palpatine deal with being transported into deep space...the Q possess some impressive mind tricks as well. Amanda Rogers effortlessly made Commander Riker think he was deeply in love with her, and her abilities were those of an amatuer Q.

I would think that the Emperor would be able to resist the mind tricks simply by strength of will alone.

As for the transported bit, unless he can use the force to survive in space or defend against the transportation, he will be quite fucked.

[brianeyci]

As for the transported bit, unless he can use the force to survive in space or defend against the transportation, he will be quite fucked.

"But ur fergetting precogz!"

Palpatine's precognition worked perfectly. The only thing he couldn't see was the Chosen One who would bring Balance to the Force.

Does the precog allow Palpatine to avoid being teleported? Who knows, there has to be a limit to the precog but I don't know it and unless you do it is not definite that Palpatine loses.

Brian

[Robert Walper]

As for the transported bit, unless he can use the force to survive in space or defend against the transportation, he will be quite fucked.

"But ur fergetting precogz!"

Palpatine's precognition worked perfectly. The only thing he couldn't see was the Chosen One who would bring Balance to the Force.

Does the precog allow Palpatine to avoid being teleported? Who knows, there has to be a limit to the precog but I don't know it and unless you do it is not definite that Palpatine loses.

Brian

Precog is over estimated. The ability to see something about to happen does not immediately grant the power to prevent it.

Falling out of a plane, I can easily predict the results when I hit the ground at terminal velocity. Doesn't grant me the power to fly or avoid falling though.

[Aaron]

"But ur fergetting precogz!"

Palpatine's precognition worked perfectly. The only thing he couldn't see was the Chosen One who would bring Balance to the Force.

Does the precog allow Palpatine to avoid being teleported? Who knows, there has to be a limit to the precog but I don't know it and unless you do it is not definite that Palpatine loses.

Brian

I did mention that unless he could use to force to defend against it than he would be dead. We can include precog in with using the force as a defense. He's got plenty of other tricks he can use as well, lightening, force choke, that trick in KOTOR where Sith "freexe" their enemies.

[Assassin X]

OK. Lets (is this possible in VS debates?) say no one can see the future just because obviously no matter what you can always avoid death if you know whats going to happen.

And on a side note yeah i wont make anymore posts for a bit. I got excited when i thought of a Q one. BUt the i thought people have probably discussed this a million times before!

[NecronLord]

obviously no matter what you can always avoid death if you know whats going to happen.

Palpatine's precog is nowhere near that effective.

[Robert Walper]

obviously no matter what you can always avoid death if you know whats going to happen.

You obviously didn't read my "falling out of a plane" example.

[brianeyci]

How could I be so stupid, you don't need to use precognition to prove that Palpatine would survive.

Since Q is obviously not a god, we can quantify what his powers are. The technology debate on Q a month ago shows this. The pro-innate ability crowd kept bringing up that Q was not observed to use transporters or technology. The pro-technology proponents brought up the example of Q weapons. The rebuttal was that the Q continuum was a metaphor. The thing that shifted the debate to the pro-technology crowd was that god-like beings in Trek use technology to accomplish their feats. There was only one example of Kes brought up to counter this, and Kes didn't have the ability of Q. Therefore to be consistent with the rest of Trek, Q is probably using technology to accomplish his feats. Q weapons and the message of Trek is consistent with technology.

Consider what was used to prove this -- writer's intent, which is ironic because pro-innate proponents say that writer's intent proves Q has innate powers when the rest of Trek shows that the message is "technology can solve anything" meaning writer's intent is not for Q to be a god!!!!!!!!!!! Dripping with fucking irony once you realize this -- the pro-innate does not even have a case.

Once you realize it is not innate and more evidence for technological, then you can put limits on what Q can do. Q can probably travel through time. Q can transport someone from Earth to the Delta Quadrant. Q can teleport.

But using "Q can teleport" to mean he can automatically teleport away Palpatine is an obvious no-limits fallacy. Once you accept that Q probably use transporters, the answer becomes obvious why Q was able to transport into Federation ships. They have frequency, and we know from O'Brien that Federation ships have a specific weakness when their shields "cycle", allowing transport through provided you time within a millisecond. Therefore, Q being able to transport through Federation shields does not mean he can transport through Wars shields, because they do not have a frequency and thus no weakness to transporters. What Q has is probably the ability to scan through frequencies and transport through Federation shields.

Therefore, unless Palpatine walks around somewhere without shields, he is safe. Also thick armor can stop transporters, so Palpatine is probably safe even if he is not expecting an attack.

Brian

[HyperionX]

How could I be so stupid, you don't need to use precognition to prove that Palpatine would survive.

Since Q is obviously not a god, we can quantify what his powers are. The technology debate on Q a month ago shows this. The pro-innate ability crowd kept bringing up that Q was not observed to use transporters or technology. The pro-technology proponents brought up the example of Q weapons. The rebuttal was that the Q continuum was a metaphor. The thing that shifted the debate to the pro-technology crowd was that god-like beings in Trek use technology to accomplish their feats. There was only one example of Kes brought up to counter this, and Kes didn't have the ability of Q. Therefore to be consistent with the rest of Trek, Q is probably using technology to accomplish his feats. Q weapons and the message of Trek is consistent with technology.


Consider what was used to prove this -- writer's intent, which is ironic because pro-innate proponents say that writer's intent proves Q has innate powers when the rest of Trek shows that the message is "technology can solve anything" meaning writer's intent is not for Q to be a god!!!!!!!!!!! Dripping with fucking irony once you realize this -- the pro-innate does not even have a case.

Once you realize it is not innate and more evidence for technological, then you can put limits on what Q can do. Q can probably travel through time. Q can transport someone from Earth to the Delta Quadrant. Q can teleport.

But using "Q can teleport" to mean he can automatically teleport away Palpatine is an obvious no-limits fallacy. Once you accept that Q probably use transporters, the answer becomes obvious why Q was able to transport into Federation ships. They have frequency, and we know from O'Brien that Federation ships have a specific weakness when their shields "cycle", allowing transport through provided you time within a millisecond. Therefore, Q being able to transport through Federation shields does not mean he can transport through Wars shields, because they do not have a frequency and thus no weakness to transporters. What Q has is probably the ability to scan through frequencies and transport through Federation shields.

Therefore, unless Palpatine walks around somewhere without shields, he is safe. Also thick armor can stop transporters, so Palpatine is probably safe even if he is not expecting an attack.

Brian

This is one of the most retarded things I ever read. Is Q "God?" No, but is he so ridiculously advanced that he possess god-like powers? Yes. Claiming that his teleportation abilities are just transporters an utterly nonsensical claim based on no facts whatsoever. Face it, a Q was able to transport Voyager to immediately after the big bang (and somehow keep it is safe from destruction), the Enterprise-D some 60k LYs, etc. No transporter can do that, and obviously it is vastly more advanced than anything ST or SW has. Among other things he can also bring people from the dead, alter the universal gravitation constant, make up alternate timelines at will and jump across. No limit fallacy my ass, you're making the "if I didn't see it then it can't happen" fallacy. If Q can do something far more difficult than transporting a person, then is there is no reason to believe that he can't transport a person.

[Aaron]

This is one of the most retarded things I ever read. Is Q "God?" No, but is he so ridiculously advanced that he possess god-like powers? Yes. Claiming that his teleportation abilities are just transporters an utterly nonsensical claim based on no facts whatsoever. Face it, a Q was able to transport Voyager to immediately after the big bang (and somehow keep it is safe from destruction), the Enterprise-D some 60k LYs, etc. No transporter can do that, and obviously it is vastly more advanced than anything ST or SW has. Among other things he can also bring people from the dead, alter the universal gravitation constant, make up alternate timelines at will and jump across. No limit fallacy my ass, you're making the "if I didn't see it then it can't happen" fallacy. If Q can do something far more difficult than transporting a person, then is there is no reason to believe that he can't transport a person.

No one's debating whether he can telport a person. The question is can he be stopped by someone in the SW universe, possibly with the Force.

[Crazedwraith]

This is one of the most retarded things I ever read. Is Q "God?" No, but is he so ridiculously advanced that he possess god-like powers? Yes. Claiming that his teleportation abilities are just transporters an utterly nonsensical claim based on no facts whatsoever. Face it, a Q was able to transport Voyager to immediately after the big bang (and somehow keep it is safe from destruction), the Enterprise-D some 60k LYs, etc. No transporter can do that, and obviously it is vastly more advanced than anything ST or SW has. Among other things he can also bring people from the dead, alter the universal gravitation constant, make up alternate timelines at will and jump across. No limit fallacy my ass, you're making the "if I didn't see it then it can't happen" fallacy. If Q can do something far more difficult than transporting a person, then is there is no reason to believe that he can't transport a person.

No one's debating whether he can telport a person. The question is can he be stopped by someone in the SW universe, possibly with the Force.

Posssibly. But its impossible to prove either way. I'd rather bet on Q than Against him.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Q can just teleport Palpy to the beginning of the universe and let the near-singularity state of matter do the rest.

[brianeyci]

This is one of the most retarded things I ever read. Is Q "God?" No, but is he so ridiculously advanced that he possess god-like powers? Yes.

You obviously didn't read the whole thing. Where the fuck did I said that Q possessed god-like abilities? In fact, down the thread, I say that Q transported through Federation shields because there is a weakness. Fucking learn how to read.

Being able to travel through time, transport, and create objects is not god-like You can do this in Trek with upscaled Federation technology.

Claiming that his teleportation abilities are just transporters an utterly nonsensical claim based on no facts whatsoever. Face it, a Q was able to transport Voyager to immediately after the big bang (and somehow keep it is safe from destruction), the Enterprise-D some 60k LYs, etc.

So you want to get into the innate versus technological debate again hrm? I suggest you look up the Q debate a month ago. There were two large ones, one in PST and one Hosed. The Q using transporters is consistent with the rest of Trek.

No transporter can do that, and obviously it is vastly more advanced than anything ST or SW has.

Transporters can do that. It is just a matter of distance. The Q could have perfected subspace transporters.

Among other things he can also bring people from the dead,

This is not necessarily god-like if the Q can time travel and go into a different multiverse to snatch a duplicate. Also, did we actually see Riker raise the child from the dead? No. The Borg can "raise someone from the dead", at least compared with Federation technology. Someone who has been dead for three days can be raised from the dead with nanoprobes IIRC (Neelix).

alter the universal gravitation constant, make up alternate timelines at will and jump across.

You can make up alternate timelines with time travel technology, it just has to be upscaled. Transporters allow jumping between timelines. The universal gravitational constant alteration wouldn't work as pointed out by someone in the Q debate a month earlier. I was the one who brought up the universal gravitational constant thinking the same way you did. But in the end it all comes down to what Q says. Q can be maintaining his superiority over the so-called "mortals". He could also mean "change the universal gravitational constant in a localized area" aka a mass lightening field.

No limit fallacy my ass, you're making the "if I didn't see it then it can't happen" fallacy.

Ridiculous. That's the exact fucking fallacy you're making. You don't see the irony in that? Because we don't see Q transporters or Q technology except for Q weapons, you conclude that it cannot be transporters. It is a no-limits fallacy to assume that the transportation will work on a Wars ship especially given that Trek ships have a weakness to frequency as O'Brien stated.

If Q can do something far more difficult than transporting a person, then is there is no reason to believe that he can't transport a person.

Through Wars armor and Wars shield? No.

Brian

[brianeyci]

No one's debating whether he can telport a person. The question is can he be stopped by someone in the SW universe, possibly with the Force.

No, that's exactly what the debate is. We know Q can teleport. Does that mean he can teleport through Wars shielding which doesn't have a frequency? If we accept the idea that Q uses technology to accomplish his feats, then there are limits and beaming through shields because you know their frequency is one of them. Not knowing the frequency, Q may not be able to transport through them.

Brian

[Aaron]

No, that's exactly what the debate is. We know Q can teleport. Does that mean he can teleport through Wars shielding which doesn't have a frequency? If we accept the idea that Q uses technology to accomplish his feats, then there are limits and beaming through shields because you know their frequency is one of them. Not knowing the frequency, Q may not be able to transport through them.

Brian

Righto, never mind then.

[jegs2]

Havent' transmitted a request to Coruscant for new folks in a while, so I'm overdue:




Message from Imperial Center transmitting in 5 .......

.....4.....

.....3.....

.....2.....

........................................................................................

Department of the Imperial Army
Imperial Intelligence Center
Imperial Detatchment N4318T
Imperial Center, Coruscant

MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
Subject: Welcome


Newbie:

Welcome to StarDestroyer.net. You have volunteered service within the Galactic Empire, and your conduct on this board will be IAW standards set forth by the moderators and owner of said board. Breach of those terms will result in your immediate arrest, interrogation, and subsequent execution. Let me take this opportunity to welcome you to Imperial service.

Serve the Empire!



GREY SIX
MOFF, IMI
Commanding


.........................................................................................
..........................................................................................
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........................END TRANSMISSION

[HyperionX]

This is one of the most retarded things I ever read. Is Q "God?" No, but is he so ridiculously advanced that he possess god-like powers? Yes.

You obviously didn't read the whole thing. Where the fuck did I said that Q possessed god-like abilities? In fact, down the thread, I say that Q transported through Federation shields because there is a weakness. Fucking learn how to read.

WTF?! Learn to read yourself.

Being able to travel through time, transport, and create objects is not god-like You can do this in Trek with upscaled Federation technology.

Under the same logical we could, right now, reproduce a death star blast. All we need is a fuckload of TNT/Uranium/Hydrogen. Get real. Learn the concept of scale.

Claiming that his teleportation abilities are just transporters an utterly nonsensical claim based on no facts whatsoever. Face it, a Q was able to transport Voyager to immediately after the big bang (and somehow keep it is safe from destruction), the Enterprise-D some 60k LYs, etc.

So you want to get into the innate versus technological debate again hrm? I suggest you look up the Q debate a month ago. There were two large ones, one in PST and one Hosed. The Q using transporters is consistent with the rest of Trek.[/quote]

Except for the part about SCALE which you've plainly missed. You're also ignoring everything else that Q can do that no Trek race can do as pointed below.

No transporter can do that, and obviously it is vastly more advanced than anything ST or SW has.

Transporters can do that. It is just a matter of distance. The Q could have perfected subspace transporters.

Evidence? Oh wait you have none. Even if you did you missed the concept of SCALE.

Among other things he can also bring people from the dead,

This is not necessarily god-like if the Q can time travel and go into a different multiverse to snatch a duplicate. Also, did we actually see Riker raise the child from the dead? No. The Borg can "raise someone from the dead", at least compared with Federation technology. Someone who has been dead for three days can be raised from the dead with nanoprobes IIRC (Neelix).

Once again you've made "if I didn't see it can't happen" fallacy (anyone know what this is called?) . Anyway, you're still stuck with Q's ability to manipulate time/matter/whatever on an incredible level.

alter the universal gravitation constant, make up alternate timelines at will and jump across.

You can make up alternate timelines with time travel technology, it just has to be upscaled.

Exactly, very upscaled, to the point where no one else could reproduce that in trek-verse.

Transporters allow jumping between timelines. The universal gravitational constant alteration wouldn't work as pointed out by someone in the Q debate a month earlier. I was the one who brought up the universal gravitational constant thinking the same way you did. But in the end it all comes down to what Q says. Q can be maintaining his superiority over the so-called "mortals". He could also mean "change the universal gravitational constant in a localized area" aka a mass lightening field.

Dude, just make big G negative, that'll work. And moreover stop trying to make justifications and "interpret" what he really meant to say.

No limit fallacy my ass, you're making the "if I didn't see it then it can't happen" fallacy.

Ridiculous. That's the exact fucking fallacy you're making. You don't see the irony in that? Because we don't see Q transporters or Q technology except for Q weapons, you conclude that it cannot be transporters. It is a no-limits fallacy to assume that the transportation will work on a Wars ship especially given that Trek ships have a weakness to frequency as O'Brien stated.

Once again you've demostrated that you can't read nor think cohorently. You have no evidence what they are and then you've merely ASSUMED that they are transporters, with full transporter limitations. Who's making the ridiculous assumptions and who's making the fallacies? I say that they are some sort of teleportation technology vastly superior than anything we've seen. Even if they were just "transporters", ie work by the same principles, what on Earth could possibly make you think it face the same limitations? Seeing how he can transport a whole ship renders the absurb frequency limitation moot.

If Q can do something far more difficult than transporting a person, then is there is no reason to believe that he can't transport a person.

Through Wars armor and Wars shield? No.

Evidence? Oh wait you have none.

No, that's exactly what the debate is. We know Q can teleport. Does that mean he can teleport through Wars shielding which doesn't have a frequency? If we accept the idea that Q uses technology to accomplish his feats, then there are limits and beaming through shields because you know their frequency is one of them. Not knowing the frequency, Q may not be able to transport through them.

Massive emphasis on the "may." You have no evidence of this, and this is exceeding meaningless seeing how he can teleport the whole ship.

[brianeyci]

Did you do what I said and looked for the two threads on Q that were in PST and HOS a month ago? The arguments have already been presented, this has been done to death by better than you or I in those threads. Go read them before we continue and tell me we won't be headed into the same direction. Each of these threads were massive and had many replies that convinced me that technology is the best way to explain Q.

WTF?! Learn to read yourself.

The only time I mentioned godlike was in this sentence,

he rebuttal was that the Q continuum was a metaphor. The thing that shifted the debate to the pro-technology crowd was that god-like beings in Trek use technology to accomplish their feats.

Referring especially to Apollo. I never mentioned that Q should be considered a God by us, although he is definitely considered omnipotent by the Federation (however stupid that is, a being that can be killed is not omnipotent and omnipotence itself is paradoxical).

Under the same logical we could, right now, reproduce a death star blast. All we need is a fuckload of TNT/Uranium/Hydrogen. Get real. Learn the concept of scale.

Except the difference is that we have seen scaled up Treknology. The Federation has primitive time travel technology, eclipsed by the more advanced 29th Century Federation. The Voth can transport an entire ship into their hull. That the Q could be able to transport a great distance, use transwarp which is much faster than warp, is not the same as TNT blowing up the Earth, since we've seen independent scaled up examples. You could even argue that a scaled up transporter is possible because of the abandonment of subspace transporters which IIRC had far greater range than transporters.

Except for the part about SCALE which you've plainly missed. You're also ignoring everything else that Q can do that no Trek race can do as pointed below.

Apollo possessed so-called god-like abilities, and so did the Catwoman. They were not gods, and eventually after their technology was defeated they were vanquished.

Evidence? Oh wait you have none. Even if you did you missed the concept of SCALE.

Lack of proof is not proof of absence, and given that transporters are how people reappear and disappear in Trek, the hypothesis that this is transporters is superior.

Once again you've made "if I didn't see it can't happen" fallacy (anyone know what this is called?) . Anyway, you're still stuck with Q's ability to manipulate time/matter/whatever on an incredible level.

Riker did not do it, he only thought he could do it and he was not privy to all the secrets of the Q. The Q, or at least Q himself is a documented trickster and fucks with people's minds. How can you grant someone a power which is innate? It must be fucking technology, and if it is then a transporter is a reasonable hypothesis.

What the hell are you talking about, "if I didn't see it it can't happen?" I'm saying you do see someone disappear and reappear, and how this is done in Trek is through transporters. You do not see the irony of what you are accusing me of? You say we have not seen the Q use transporters, so it must be some innate power.

Exactly, very upscaled, to the point where no one else could reproduce that in trek-verse.

The former is correct, the latter is not. Do you not see the irony? You say I don't accept things unless I see them, but unless you see a Q transporter yourself you don't accept the idea that Q uses technology. Ridiculous.

Dude, just make big G negative, that'll work. And moreover stop trying to make justifications and "interpret" what he really meant to say.

If Q meant he could change the universal gravitational constant, then fine. He can change the universal gravitational constant. That still does not mean it cannot be done without technology, or that the technology argument is fucked. Transporters themselves are theoretically impossible yet we accept them. One instance of something that seems to us beyond the capability of technology does not disprove the technology case for Q.

Once again you've demostrated that you can't read nor think cohorently. You have no evidence what they are and then you've merely ASSUMED that they are transporters, with full transporter limitations.

The only limitation that we have for teleportation technology is transporter technology, so it is reasonable to use it as a lower limit. This is far better than the no-limits fallacy of "Q teleportation can work anywhere... well because it can."

Who's making the ridiculous assumptions and who's making the fallacies? I say that they are some sort of teleportation technology vastly superior than anything we've seen. Even if they were just "transporters", ie work by the same principles, what on Earth could possibly make you think it face the same limitations? Seeing how he can transport a whole ship renders the absurb frequency limitation moot.

The Voth can transport an entire ship. If you agree that the Q use technology but some sort of advanced teleportation technology, then we already agree with the technology point. If we agree with the technology point, then we are able to set limits. The only limit for teleportation technology we have from Trek is transporters. Therefore to set a lower limit, we use transporter limitations.

If you agree with the technology hypothesis then why the fuck are you arguing with me?

Evidence? Oh wait you have none.

Absence of proof does not mean proof of absence, and given we have seen Q weapons and the rest of Trek has so-called gods using technology to accomplish feats, setting limits on Q like this is reasonable.

Massive emphasis on the "may." You have no evidence of this, and this is exceeding meaningless seeing how he can teleport the whole ship.

But you forget the fucking fact that may already kills the case for Palpatine being defeated with a teleportation attack. Transporters may be able to beam through Wars shields. That doesn't mean they can. If you are not defending the "Q can teleport Palpatine into space" hypothesis, then why the fuck are you replying?

Brian

[HyperionX]

Did you do what I said and looked for the two threads on Q that were in PST and HOS a month ago? The arguments have already been presented, this has been done to death by better than you or I in those threads. Go read them before we continue and tell me we won't be headed into the same direction. Each of these threads were massive and had many replies that convinced me that technology is the best way to explain Q.

The arguments are not the same.

The only time I mentioned godlike was in this sentence,

he rebuttal was that the Q continuum was a metaphor. The thing that shifted the debate to the pro-technology crowd was that god-like beings in Trek use technology to accomplish their feats.

Referring especially to Apollo. I never mentioned that Q should be considered a God by us, although he is definitely considered omnipotent by the Federation (however stupid that is, a being that can be killed is not omnipotent and omnipotence itself is paradoxical).

Point being? This is exactly I was saying. You either didn't read what I wrote or you're just blowing smoke.

Except the difference is that we have seen scaled up Treknology. The Federation has primitive time travel technology, eclipsed by the more advanced 29th Century Federation. The Voth can transport an entire ship into their hull. That the Q could be able to transport a great distance, use transwarp which is much faster than warp, is not the same as TNT blowing up the Earth, since we've seen independent scaled up examples. You could even argue that a scaled up transporter is possible because of the abandonment of subspace transporters which IIRC had far greater range than transporters.

This is a strawman. The example's point was that it is absurd to think that just because something doesn't have to be nearly magically in its tech to work it must be something very low tech. This is ridiculous. Any device that can teleport large objects through apparently any distance, nearly instaneously, across any time period, and is small enough to carry around and requires no input energy or whatever would be wanktech level technology, i.e. "god-like." (Not to mention manipulating universal constants, altering matter/energy/time/space/etc. on a ridiculously advance level and instantly, etc.)

Apollo possessed so-called god-like abilities, and so did the Catwoman. They were not gods, and eventually after their technology was defeated they were vanquished.

Well this is significantly more "god-like." Might as well pit the Empire against the Culture and claim the Culture must lose because we have never seen them teleport stuff across SWtech shields.

Lack of proof is not proof of absence, and given that transporters are how people reappear and disappear in Trek, the hypothesis that this is transporters is superior.

There are other teleportation technologies in ST other than transporters, so this argument is false.

Riker did not do it, he only thought he could do it and he was not privy to all the secrets of the Q. The Q, or at least Q himself is a documented trickster and fucks with people's minds. How can you grant someone a power which is innate? It must be fucking technology, and if it is then a transporter is a reasonable hypothesis.

What the hell are you talking about, "if I didn't see it it can't happen?" I'm saying you do see someone disappear and reappear, and how this is done in Trek is through transporters. You do not see the irony of what you are accusing me of? You say we have not seen the Q use transporters, so it must be some innate power.

Who the fuck are you even debating or can you not even read at a grade school level? I never NOT claimed it was technology. It is, as I have claimed right from the beginning. And it is really, really advanced. Are they "transporters"? Who the fuck cares. It's ridiculously powerful and advanced and doesn't seem to have any of the limitations of "transporters," so why the fuck would frequency-less shields be able to stop it?

Exactly, very upscaled, to the point where no one else could reproduce that in trek-verse.

The former is correct, the latter is not. Do you not see the irony? You say I don't accept things unless I see them, but unless you see a Q transporter yourself you don't accept the idea that Q uses technology. Ridiculous.

Feel like arguing against a tape recorder, though it does now appear that your strawmen appears to stem from your inability to read.

If Q meant he could change the universal gravitational constant, then fine. He can change the universal gravitational constant. That still does not mean it cannot be done without technology, or that the technology argument is fucked. Transporters themselves are theoretically impossible yet we accept them. One instance of something that seems to us beyond the capability of technology does not disprove the technology case for Q.

Read above. Goddamn this is unbelievable...

The only limitation that we have for teleportation technology is transporter technology, so it is reasonable to use it as a lower limit. This is far better than the no-limits fallacy of "Q teleportation can work anywhere... well because it can."

Your thinking is unbelievably backwards. Transporter technology would a LOWER limit exactly as you describe, not the upper limit, which is exactly you're trying to claim. Seeing how it is far far more powerful than conventional transporters why would it bound by the same limitations? And we're not talking something ridiculous like transporting the whole multiverse or something that could actually come close to breaking the no limit fallacy, we're talking about transporting a single guy off a ship, something Q has done many many times, except now this guy is protected by "mythical" SWtech and can somehow stop Q. Yeah right. You have absolutely no reason to believe this, especially against a guy who can take you to the big bang one second and in the next shrink your ship to 6 inches long and put it on a christmas tree.

The Voth can transport an entire ship. If you agree that the Q use technology but some sort of advanced teleportation technology, then we already agree with the technology point. If we agree with the technology point, then we are able to set limits. The only limit for teleportation technology we have from Trek is transporters. Therefore to set a lower limit, we use transporter limitations.

If you agree with the technology hypothesis then why the fuck are you arguing with me?

Because somehow, someway, you came to the ridiculously absurd and idiotic notion that this lower limit of yours is now the upper limit, based on no evidence at all, and that somehow SWtech is automagically above this lower limit, and that to think otherwise is the no-limit fallacy. I'd say something is wrong with your logic.

Absence of proof does not mean proof of absence, and given we have seen Q weapons and the rest of Trek has so-called gods using technology to accomplish feats, setting limits on Q like this is reasonable.

The same strawman again. WTF? You use these arguments like buzzwords without consideration of their accuracy. Actually we have significant evidence, that they have transported people off of ships, heck whole ships themselves. The thing we don't have is evidence that SWTech will stop this tech which has nothing to do with proof of absense.

But you forget the fucking fact that may already kills the case for Palpatine being defeated with a teleportation attack. Transporters may be able to beam through Wars shields. That doesn't mean they can. If you are not defending the "Q can teleport Palpatine into space" hypothesis, then why the fuck are you replying?

By "beam through Wars shields" you mean "beam whole ships"? Don't be a fool. You're whole arguments boils down to a very narrow way but totally unsubstanciated way that Palpatine may survive a very specific attack from Q. I'm pointing out that even this is absurd (ignoring all the other ways Palpy can be killed for the sake of argument).