Literally you are trying to leap to a senseless conclusion on the flimiest of proofs.
Okay this is your opinion I respect that - do you wish to rebutle what I am saying with actual proof from the movie? I dont consider quoting a movie word for word flimiest proofs. Does OB1 or any character say something in opposite that was stated? Im not chewing you out or anything, this is just a discussion I am mearly curious - like I said we all percieve the same movie on different levels - I just want to see how you see it with proof to back it up.
Have you given any beyond your subjective whims on the matter?
Because no you're asking me to provide you proof of a negative.
And thus...I ask you again...any objective proof other then "I think he means..."
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You're a retard. When I was a kid, I thought I was gonna be the best Paleontologist ever. There's nothing different between my boasting and Anakins.
You know when you start swearing its a sign your loosing an argument - you do make valid points, but no need to be rude about it.
you forgot sites motto swearing means here absolutly nothing.
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Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
You're a retard. When I was a kid, I thought I was gonna be the best Paleontologist ever. There's nothing different between my boasting and Anakins.
You know when you start swearing its a sign your loosing an argument - you do make valid points, but no need to be rude about it.
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And thus...I ask you again...any objective proof other then "I think he means..."[/quote]
Yes in the above I gave my reasoning why I beleive he forseen the future - problem is everyone can perseive a things differently. I merly just stated my opinion and gave my reasons why I had that opinion in the above posts.
Does Han Solo saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this," mean he's sensing the future through some unrefined Force ability? Remember that both Luke and Leia use the same line, and since their Force abilities are beyond question, clearly, Han must be a closet Force-user.
Right?
That's where your initial premise, that 'Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?' conclusively proves that Obi-Wan has seen his death at the hands of Vader 30+ years in the future, fails. It is only if you take everything in dialogue as sacrosanct truth that this has any possible bearing on the saga.
Frankly, arguing Kenobi's predictive ability based on the line from AOTC is like the Trektards who insist Picard's dialogue proves their laser-proof argument.
There are two important lessons:
Kenobi: "Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future."
Jinn: "But not at the expense of the present. Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan."
Yoda: "A long time have I watched this one. All his life, he has looked away - to the horizon, to the future ... never his mind on where he was! What he was doing! Hmph."
So having an eye to the future is one thing, obsessing over it is another. In simpler terms, if I have a vision of the future, upon which actions is it based? Is it something I am about to do, or something I have done? If the former, can I do something else? If the latter, can I make amends?
If I forsee the destruction of Alderaan and do something to change that, have I invalidated any other vision of the future which depended on that happening (i.e. Luke confronting Vader on Death Star II, etc.)?
If Force predictive abilities are the super-power you posit, then nothing really happens, because everyone is busy out-predicting each other, a la the showdown between the Man in Black and Vizzini in The Princess Bride.
In short order, your 'future' is a pile of spaghetti that makes as much sense as one of Brannon Braga's time-travel stories.
In another sense, a chess grandmaster 'predicts' his opponent's response, perhaps even positions his pieces so as to force his opponent's hand - 'controlling the board' by requiring the opponent to be reactive/defensive, rather than proactive/offensive. Our grandmaster could even say, "Everything is proceeding as I have forseen," without laying claim to any precognitive ability, just an understanding of the rules of the game and a clear strategy.
The trick is getting your opponent to focus on something else, get them to believe your goal is something other than it is, or that the rules are something other than they are. (Remember that original draft? Go check the scene where Valorum says, "Palpatine, how could you do this? I thought you were my friend!")
Peace is a lie, there is only passion
Through passion, I gain strength
Through strength, I gain power
Through power, I gain victory
Through victory, my chains are broken
The Force shall free me.
DV8R wrote:And thus...I ask you again...any objective proof other then "I think he means..."
Yes in the above I gave my reasoning why I beleive he forseen the future - problem is everyone can perseive a things differently. I merly just stated my opinion and gave my reasons why I had that opinion in the above posts.
Sir, the since you were the one who brought up the topic, the burden of proof is upon you. Captain Cyran's already showed you your examples are wrong. There is a difference between precognition and projective / receptive telepathy, for example.
Thus you still haven't given a proof. What you have done is stated examples in the movie, and gave your opinion on them. There are differences between opinion, reason and actual hard proof.
This is a just a friendly reminder. Please understand the difference between those things before you go on. You're about to go into the big boys' debate territory.
DV8R wrote:You know when you start swearing its a sign your loosing an argument - you do make valid points, but no need to be rude about it.
Calling someone with a baseless theory they put no thought into a 'retard' is swearing? You never stop making stuff up, you damn dirty hell-varmint!
I find your constant use of 'rebutle' and 'OB1' offensive: should I whine like a little girl about it?
I'm surprised noone mentioned the whole 'dark side clouding the force' etc etc. Even if they COULD see 20-25 years into the future (which is unlikely, since they could stop the whole thing happening easily) it's hardly likely to be easier than it ever has been before for a regular Jedi guy who's screaming down the highway in hot pursuit.
Why yes, you can use my bandwidth, thanks for asking!
Sorry, I didn't know who to ask.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew...The Black Mage with The KnifeSD.Net Chronicler of the PastBun Bun is my hero.The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
Nick Lancaster wrote:Does Han Solo saying, "I've got a bad feeling about this," mean he's sensing the future through some unrefined Force ability? Remember that both Luke and Leia use the same line, and since their Force abilities are beyond question, clearly, Han must be a closet Force-user.
Right?
That's where your initial premise, that 'Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?' conclusively proves that Obi-Wan has seen his death at the hands of Vader 30+ years in the future, fails. It is only if you take everything in dialogue as sacrosanct truth that this has any possible bearing on the saga.
Frankly, arguing Kenobi's predictive ability based on the line from AOTC is like the Trektards who insist Picard's dialogue proves their laser-proof argument.
There are two important lessons:
Kenobi: "Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future."
Jinn: "But not at the expense of the present. Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan."
Yoda: "A long time have I watched this one. All his life, he has looked away - to the horizon, to the future ... never his mind on where he was! What he was doing! Hmph."
So having an eye to the future is one thing, obsessing over it is another. In simpler terms, if I have a vision of the future, upon which actions is it based? Is it something I am about to do, or something I have done? If the former, can I do something else? If the latter, can I make amends?
If I forsee the destruction of Alderaan and do something to change that, have I invalidated any other vision of the future which depended on that happening (i.e. Luke confronting Vader on Death Star II, etc.)?
If Force predictive abilities are the super-power you posit, then nothing really happens, because everyone is busy out-predicting each other, a la the showdown between the Man in Black and Vizzini in The Princess Bride.
In short order, your 'future' is a pile of spaghetti that makes as much sense as one of Brannon Braga's time-travel stories.
In another sense, a chess grandmaster 'predicts' his opponent's response, perhaps even positions his pieces so as to force his opponent's hand - 'controlling the board' by requiring the opponent to be reactive/defensive, rather than proactive/offensive. Our grandmaster could even say, "Everything is proceeding as I have forseen," without laying claim to any precognitive ability, just an understanding of the rules of the game and a clear strategy.
The trick is getting your opponent to focus on something else, get them to believe your goal is something other than it is, or that the rules are something other than they are. (Remember that original draft? Go check the scene where Valorum says, "Palpatine, how could you do this? I thought you were my friend!")
Actually this post makes alot of sence, I do agree with alot of what your saying. This was the type of answer I was looking for.
Therefore, precogs have a sense for the future, and telepaths communicate with each other via the Force / psionic powers / organic brain radios / etc. Projective telepathy and receptive telepathy are WEG terms, which just means the guy who sends the signal and the guy who receives it.
