A (single) Borg(ST) vs Battle Droid(SW).

[Lone_Prodigy]

Against the SBD the drone wouldn't last five seconds unless it could assimilate it. I would point out that theoretically it would be much easier to assimilate a droid than to assimilate an organic being. All the drone would have to do was modify the droid's programming (as opposed to having to implant some sort of radio in its brain).

The brain is stored underneath an inch of armor that is used to defend effectively against blasters (in Hard Contact SBDs are a bitch to put down using the DC-17m. In AotC, it took the gargantuan DC-15s to easily put them down). And besides, the nanoprobes are suited for organic individuals, by converting cells and other such things. Even if they could get through the armor, they'd likely just sit around and hope to find some organic life. And even if, somehow, they managed to overcome those two obstacles how would it even understand the processor's operating system? Federation computers accept any random shit without question from any alien culture, but a military droid would likely have been make difficult to reprogram by anything but the correct equipment to make it hard for enemies to simply use your own troops against you.

BTW Stark, according to Descent Borg actually do carry hand disrupters (it's possible it was a modification by Lore, but unproven).

Occam's Razor. What's more likely– Borg drones always walking around with weapons but too stupid to use them, or Lore giving his far more aggressive and less zombie-like drones some decent weapons?

Might I also add that Obi-Wan Kenobi also did a double jumping front kick and took out two battle droids. I know he has force enhanced strength, but all it took was one hit and the droids were toast. (Kick ASS!! )

A kick from legs that can propel a human up four stories. Most anything would be toasted by that kind of a kick.

Force enhanced kick or not, this is yet another example of simple imparted momentum disabling typical battle driods. Force push accomplishes the same thing as well. Perhaps all it would take is a heavy blow by a Borg drone to disable it. A Borg drone in STTNG "Descent" struck Data in the gut and kneeled even him over for a second. Impressive considering when Worf attacked Lore with full force hits to the head, he didn't even faze the andriod (identical to Data).

Look– "imparted momentum" without any quantification. Enough imparted momentum could destroy virtually anything. Imparted momentum destroys drones too, dumbass.

]There are. The Borg in STTNG "Descent" were very fast moving. The normal counter is these drones were disconnected from the main Collective (true). However, that's not the point. The point is said drones still had all of their cybernetic components and bulky suits. Yet they could still move very quickly (one even dodged a phaser beam in that episode).

How do we know that Lore hadn't modified his drones? Just like the disruptor point, we can either assume that Drones have a bunch of hidden abilities that they never bother to use or that they had modifications done to them.

Also, in ST:First Contact, we literately see drones running to encircle Data when he attempts to escape. These drones are part of the normal Collective.

The sheer level or horrific-ness of that movie nearly made me vomit. Waiting to see if it's on TV would take too long. Screencaps?

In STVOY "Unimatrix Zero", we see a Borg drone duck a Klingon swinging a Bat'leth weapon, and then backhanding the Klingon to the ground. The drone virtually won that hand to hand combat, but lost when Janeway surprised it and took it out with the dropped Bat'leth. (it should be noted this example took place in the "virtual" world of Unimatrix Zero, so some might dismiss this example on that basis. But given the other examples, there's nothing inconsistent about it).

Yeah, nothing inconsistance about the slow-ass zombie suddenly becoming extremely agile. How do we know that those weren't heavily specialized drones made to guard the queen?

It's my assertion the reason drones move slowly at most times is because they prefer to adapt to enemy fire rather than trying to dodge and return it. This is consistent with their mentality of brute force and numbers to counter their enemies. Furthermore, given Borg drones are either recycled (as per Hugh's suggestion in STTNG "I, Borg") or they can be revived up to seventy two hours after clinical death, the "losses" the Borg incur with this mentality could be much lower than some might try to suggest.

So, in other words, they are extremely idiotic. They would take far less casualties by using some speed, adaptation or not. Refusing to use so great an advantage rates them lower than chimpanzees in intelligence. Even using revival, they are still wasting resources for no reason at all.

[brianeyci]

Occam's Razor. What's more likely– Borg drones always walking around with weapons but too stupid to use them, or Lore giving his far more aggressive and less zombie-like drones some decent weapons?

Wrong on two points. Borg carry disruptors normally, and disruptor fire was seen in VOY Scorpion Pt I I believe, where Borg disruptor fire residue was detected on a S. 8472 computer core.

Also wrong about the decent weapons. Given that the Borg use it on the computer core, and that Borg need to overload forcefields without frequency (non-Federation ones), the Borg probably have a built-in disruptor to use as a tool.

In other words, although you're wrong about the disruptors on only the Lore Borg, you're right that the Borg wouldn't use them by default.

Brian

[Junghalli]

I'm sorry. Do we know how the drone was likely to injure data? Punching him? Wrestling him? Biting his ears off? There are numerous ways to injure even a mechanical man without literally tearing his frame apart.

As near as I can recall from memory it was either crushing his shoulders in or had him in a choke hold.

[Junghalli]

The brain is stored underneath an inch of armor that is used to defend effectively against blasters (in Hard Contact SBDs are a bitch to put down using the DC-17m. In AotC, it took the gargantuan DC-15s to easily put them down).

True, it'd be hard to access. Unless the drone could hack into the droid's CPU through wireless radio.

And besides, the nanoprobes are suited for organic individuals, by converting cells and other such things.

Borg wouldn't need to use nanoprobes on the droid, it would just have to get access to its computer core and reprogram it. But the OP says no assimilation anyway.

Occam's Razor. What's more likely– Borg drones always walking around with weapons but too stupid to use them, or Lore giving his far more aggressive and less zombie-like drones some decent weapons?

The first one actually. The Borg don't normally use disruptors on their enemies because they want to take them alive so they can assimilate them.

[SirNitram]

Occam's Razor. What's more likely– Borg drones always walking around with weapons but too stupid to use them, or Lore giving his far more aggressive and less zombie-like drones some decent weapons?

Wrong on two points. Borg carry disruptors normally, and disruptor fire was seen in VOY Scorpion Pt I I believe, where Borg disruptor fire residue was detected on a S. 8472 computer core.

On a ship. Could this be from a shipboard weapon? Why yes, it could. Where we actually see them deploy disruptors.

Try some distortion we haven't ripped to shreds dozens of times before you heard of this place. You're old news.

Also wrong about the decent weapons. Given that the Borg use it on the computer core, and that Borg need to overload forcefields without frequency (non-Federation ones), the Borg probably have a built-in disruptor to use as a tool.

Wow! From the infinite depths of a Borg Wankers ass comes yet another unproven claim. If it was a new claim, not torn to shreds ages ago, I would be impressed by creativity.

In other words, although you're wrong about the disruptors on only the Lore Borg, you're right that the Borg wouldn't use them by default.

Brian

In other words, you're using the most overabused Trekkie bullshit in the book: Vague reference and hope no one's seen the ep.

[Lone_Prodigy]

The brain is stored underneath an inch of armor that is used to defend effectively against blasters (in Hard Contact SBDs are a bitch to put down using the DC-17m. In AotC, it took the gargantuan DC-15s to easily put them down).

True, it'd be hard to access. Unless the drone could hack into the droid's CPU through wireless radio.

And besides, the nanoprobes are suited for organic individuals, by converting cells and other such things.

Borg wouldn't need to use nanoprobes on the droid, it would just have to get access to its computer core and reprogram it. But the OP says no assimilation anyway.

Like I said, this isn't Star Trek. Any military designer in SW worth their salt would've made the B2's comlink be totally isolated from the processor. And besides, how could it even reprogram it if it had no basis to understanding the language? Let me guess– they'll completely figure out a totally alien language, OS, security system, and more in the second before the Drone's head is knocked off its shoulders?

Occam's Razor. What's more likely– Borg drones always walking around with weapons but too stupid to use them, or Lore giving his far more aggressive and less zombie-like drones some decent weapons?

The first one actually. The Borg don't normally use disruptors on their enemies because they want to take them alive so they can assimilate them.

Ah, so when in FC Picard & Co. were slowly detaching the dish, the Borg decided to s l o w l y walk towards their enemies and let the entire Borg plot be foiled, rather than blow them away, simply because they thought it more important to have three more drones than to stop the Federation???

[Bounty]

Federation computers accept any random shit without question from any alien culture

Happened once. Never seen before or since Contagion.

The sheer level or horrific-ness of that movie nearly made me vomit. Waiting to see if it's on TV would take too long. Screencaps?

You can't be bothered to back up your argument because you dislike the movie ?

Yeah, nothing inconsistance about the slow-ass zombie suddenly becoming extremely agile. How do we know that those weren't heavily specialized drones made to guard the queen?

Because they weren't even near the Queen ?

They would take far less casualties by using some speed, adaptation or not

Dead Borg are either revived or have their parts salvaged. Temporarily losing one or two drones to become immune to enemy weapons ? Sounds like a good deal.

and more in the second before the Drone's head is knocked off its shoulders?

"Knock a drone's head of it's shoulders" ? Are you high ? A overblown Fischer Price toy that falls apart when you look at it funny ripping of a drone's head

And besides, how could it even reprogram it if it had no basis to understanding the language? Let me guess– they'll completely figure out a totally alien language, OS, security system,

Even Fed computers rarely have trouble interfacing with alien equipment, and translation is virtually instantaneous. Why would the more advanced Borg have any trouble ?

Ah, so when in FC Picard & Co. were slowly detaching the dish, the Borg decided to s l o w l y walk towards their enemies and let the entire Borg plot be foiled, rather than blow them away, simply because they thought it more important to have three more drones than to stop the Federation???

Is kinda hard to run when your magnetically glued to the floor to prevent you from floating into space.

[The Silence and I]

Quote:
and more in the second before the Drone's head is knocked off its shoulders?


"Knock a drone's head of it's shoulders" ? Are you high ? A overblown Fischer Price toy that falls apart when you look at it funny ripping of a drone's head Rolling Eyes

I think he was actually refering to the superbattledroid in this case.

[Bounty]

I think he was actually refering to the superbattledroid in this case.

Whoops. Ignore that part.

[Star-Blighter]

Anyone delusional enough to try and equate ST hth combat with ANYTHING even remotely related to real-life fighting is an utter fucking MORON! Both Worf and Data manhandled drones throughout FC. The only hth combat by a human in the whole movie was an encounter between a drone and a fucking weakling who couldn't even rifle butt properly. The rest of the time, every single redshirt paniced and let the borg have their way with them. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!

Give me a fucking shovel and I'll take down a few drones easily enough.

[The Silence and I]

I suggest you watch again. Only Data man-handled any of the drones. Worf was successful with his rifle butt and later a large knife thing. Worf used his greater than human strength (say what you will about the mythical Klingon strength, Worf has it even if others don't) plus superior fighting skills to win. Data used his superior strength, and speed in a few instances.

If you tried to take a drone down with a shovel I would commend your bravery but not your intelligence. Unless you have excellent physical conditioning it will only take ONE return strike to leave you incapacitated. I expect you could do some serious damage with a lucky shovel strike, but probably not enough to hope to take on two drones. Odds are a ready drone will take you down one on one.

I will now be watching the relevant scenes in FC to ensure I have not misspoken.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Federation computers accept any random shit without question from any alien culture

Happened once. Never seen before or since Contagion.

I see, point conceeded.

The sheer level or horrific-ness of that movie nearly made me vomit. Waiting to see if it's on TV would take too long. Screencaps?

You can't be bothered to back up your argument because you dislike the movie ?

No, since Drones almost always walk around, I lack the DVD, and it is not on TV much at all, I was wondering if a screencap could be provided.

Yeah, nothing inconsistance about the slow-ass zombie suddenly becoming extremely agile. How do we know that those weren't heavily specialized drones made to guard the queen?

Because they weren't even near the Queen ?

Like I said, I find it unusual that Drones would only show the slightest spark of intelligence when near the queen.

They would take far less casualties by using some speed, adaptation or not

Dead Borg are either revived or have their parts salvaged. Temporarily losing one or two drones to become immune to enemy weapons ? Sounds like a good deal.

If they bothered to sprint around, they would still gain immunization from the same amount of shots but it would not be a given that the first few would be mowed down before the adaption takes place. Whether or not they can be recycled, they are still wasting resources for no good reason.

and more in the second before the Drone's head is knocked off its shoulders?

"Knock a drone's head of it's shoulders" ? Are you high ? A overblown Fischer Price toy that falls apart when you look at it funny ripping of a drone's head

NOW we're talking about the B1, instead of the B2? The heavily armored droid with blades on its arms?

And besides, how could it even reprogram it if it had no basis to understanding the language? Let me guess– they'll completely figure out a totally alien language, OS, security system,

Even Fed computers rarely have trouble interfacing with alien equipment, and translation is virtually instantaneous. Why would the more advanced Borg have any trouble ?

Interfacing, yes. Totally comprehending and bypassing all of the far more advanced firewalls and security systems, no.

Ah, so when in FC Picard & Co. were slowly detaching the dish, the Borg decided to s l o w l y walk towards their enemies and let the entire Borg plot be foiled, rather than blow them away, simply because they thought it more important to have three more drones than to stop the Federation???

Is kinda hard to run when your magnetically glued to the floor to prevent you from floating into space.

[/quote]

If the Drones were as strong or as fast as you say, they could've quickly lifted one foot easily, set it down, then quickly moved the other. Power-walking would easily capture Picard, Worf, and Ensign what's-his-face.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Edit:

Yeah, nothing inconsistance about the slow-ass zombie suddenly becoming extremely agile. How do we know that those weren't heavily specialized drones made to guard the queen?

Because they weren't even near the Queen ?

Like I said, I find it unusual that Drones would only show the slightest spark of intelligence when near the queen.[/quote]

I thought you said that they did that because they were near the Queen, as though normal drones could do that but chose not to. However, for that scene weren't the drones and data near the queen? Even if they weren't, maybe the queen sent out her private entourage of fast drones in order to capture the fast Data.

[The Silence and I]

If the Drones were as strong or as fast as you say, they could've quickly lifted one foot easily, set it down, then quickly moved the other. Power-walking would easily capture Picard, Worf, and Ensign what's-his-face.

I suspect it is not that easy; try to move too quickly and you will find yourself in free fall heading away from the ship. Human bipedal motion relies on countering the force of gravity, when you replace it with a small shortranged magnetic force solely on your boots your gait is screwed up. The best way to go about being highly mobile is probably to have magnets in your feet and hands and "climb" the "rock face" AKA floor. Our feet alone are geared for gravity and the clumsy Borg are not especially well suited to learning to spacerun in a short time interval (really, have any of them ever tried to before? Even if it is possible they have no experience).

I thought you said that they did that because they were near the Queen, as though normal drones could do that but chose not to. However, for that scene weren't the drones and data near the queen? Even if they weren't, maybe the queen sent out her private entourage of fast drones in order to capture the fast Data.

The drones and Data were infact near the Queen; however the one that actually ran (there was only one, the others were able to cut Data off without moving so fast because of their placement) looked bog standard, heavy 'armor' complete with the club thing on the right arm.

The only modified/unusual Borg were the ones with two normal hands who served as the engineers working on Data and other projects. They did not run, the more standard drone did.

Keep something in mind about the Borg philosophy: They do not fear and they do not hurry unless they have to. Drones don't rush troops or run away or dive behind cover because they don't care; they have no fear or even simple concern. They don't even have much a self preservation instinct. Hence they blunder into phaser fire and rarely bother to block guys with gun butts or swords--it seems up to individual Borg preference, some try to defend themselves some don't.

The other part, that they don't hurry unless they have to is very important. Drones are capable of running and they would like to capture and assimilate everyone on board the ship; so why not run a short distance and grab Picard as he stands infront of an excape hatch in the corridor pushing redshirts ahead of himself? It would be an easy grab and they would have one more assimilated for no casualties. But they don't do it; they slowly walk over as Picard locks the hatch and then they have to start cutting their way through slowly. All this trouble could have been saved by one simple run. A lot of people say: "Look at the stupid Borg, they are so slow or so stupid they wasted that opportunity! Idiots!" but the truth is that from the Borg perspective they have all the time they need to assimilate the entire Enterprise. Rushing is not required, grabbing one more guy will not speed up the process so much that they care. It is an alien concept but it is how they operate, and to be brutally honest it serves them very, very well.

[Robert Walper]

Keep something in mind about the Borg philosophy: They do not fear and they do not hurry unless they have to. Drones don't rush troops or run away or dive behind cover because they don't care; they have no fear or even simple concern. They don't even have much a self preservation instinct. Hence they blunder into phaser fire and rarely bother to block guys with gun butts or swords--it seems up to individual Borg preference, some try to defend themselves some don't.

If I may, I'd suggest it's likely to be more of a Borg drone programming/function issue. Most drones don't bother performing hand to hand combat techniques because, well, that's not really their function. One thing we know is that drones are heavily optimized for specific tasks. Tactical drones, scout drones, medical drones, etc. Each one is best suited for specific types of tasks. The Borg's objective in ST:First Contact was to assimilate a Starfleet ship and combat Starfleet personnel (this would suggest beam as many drones over that could handle human opponents and assimilate an enemy craft quickly). Never saw one Starfleet redshirt or normal crewman put up a serious fight or combat the Borg other than with their ultimately useless phaser weapons. Worf and Data are literately one of a kind Starfleet personnel, and ultimately, their presence did not saved the Enterprise from being overrun.

I made mention of an example of a Borg drone taking down a Klingon with a Bat'Leth. I strongly suspect if we'd seen the Borg attempt to take over a Klingon ship, we'd have seen alot more drones "optimized" to deal with stronger and hand to hand weapon wielding foes.

[The Silence and I]

That makes sense to me, and you have watched far more of the Borg than I as I practice Voyager Avoidance (TM).

Now I think on it I did notice potential for your theory even within First Contact; most of the Drones serving as engineers had two normal hands for dexterity while most of the drones serving as troops have one hand and one multi-tool, complete with cutting tips, blades, (possibly) computer interface ports and of course general mass for clubbing things to death.

A question: In Voyager do Drones spark and fall over when subjected to large impacts around the neck area (specifically this seems to be related to the tubes emerging from the neck into the head)? When Work strikes his first Drone with the rifle butt it sparks like a roman candle and goes down. Data gets sparks twice; once when breaking a Drone's neck and once when backfisting a Drone in the upper chest. They never sparked like that (AFAIK) in TNG, how about Voyager?

[Robert Walper]

That makes sense to me, and you have watched far more of the Borg than I as I practice Voyager Avoidance (TM).

Now I think on it I did notice potential for your theory even within First Contact; most of the Drones serving as engineers had two normal hands for dexterity while most of the drones serving as troops have one hand and one multi-tool, complete with cutting tips, blades, (possibly) computer interface ports and of course general mass for clubbing things to death.

A question: In Voyager do Drones spark and fall over when subjected to large impacts around the neck area (specifically this seems to be related to the tubes emerging from the neck into the head)?

Actually, the later era of Borg don't seem to have near as many vulnerable tubes hanging around their bodies. The ones you're thinking of:

Here Here

But observe:

Here Here Here Here Here

When Work strikes his first Drone with the rifle butt it sparks like a roman candle and goes down. Data gets sparks twice; once when breaking a Drone's neck and once when backfisting a Drone in the upper chest. They never sparked like that (AFAIK) in TNG, how about Voyager?

Offhand, I don't recall any such effects on Voyager drones. Then, we don't see many hand to hand combat situations either. The Bat'leth example I mentioned earlier I can say didn't have such spark effects. Species 8472 hit a couple of drones, no spark effects there.

Honestly, I think there was little to none throughout the Voyager series on that. Although I'm on a limb here by asserting this on the basis of episode budgets as opposed to a movie one.

[The Silence and I]

Ok. Actually I think I prefer the TNG 'look' even though the Voyager drones appear less vulnerable in the tube department. The whiter skin color plus off-black suit is just creepy

A nice compromise would be perfect...

[Robert Walper]

Ok. Actually I think I prefer the TNG 'look' even though the Voyager drones appear less vulnerable in the tube department. The whiter skin color plus off-black suit is just creepy

A nice compromise would be perfect...

I remember I used to feel the same way. I thought the original ones looked more...how to put it...artificial and less "smooth" and organic in design?

I still think the new "look" for the Borg cubes is superior though. They look darker and more "menacing".

[Star-Blighter]

I suggest you watch again. Only Data man-handled any of the drones. Worf was successful with his rifle butt and later a large knife thing. Worf used his greater than human strength (say what you will about the mythical Klingon strength, Worf has it even if others don't) plus superior fighting skills to win. Data used his superior strength, and speed in a few instances.

If you tried to take a drone down with a shovel I would commend your bravery but not your intelligence. Unless you have excellent physical conditioning it will only take ONE return strike to leave you incapacitated. I expect you could do some serious damage with a lucky shovel strike, but probably not enough to hope to take on two drones. Odds are a ready drone will take you down one on one.

I will now be watching the relevant scenes in FC to ensure I have not misspoken.

You clearly underestimate the lethality of a shovel in the right hands. With a simple 5 ft long round shovel, I could easily make use of thrusts and sweeping strikes with the shovel head to attack an otherwise unarmed humanoid with near impunity. You say one return strike would be the end, well that assumes a drone will be able to hit me in the first place. The shovel is a supprisingly balanced weapon that could be used as either a short pole-arm substitute or in a fashion similar to that of a staff.

Either way, I would have the advantage in reach and striking power, and I
can make a shovel head VERY sharp.

*thinks fondly of what cleaved borg limbs would look like*

[The Silence and I]

I do not doubt the lethality of a shovel, particularly if sharpened. What I doubt is your success. You have a distinct advantage in reach and weaponry over a borg drone and if you have any skill (or enough desperation) I expect you will make the first drone very unhappy. The problem is that once the others decide you are a credible threat they will swarm you and you will not be able to stop them.

Perhaps we should make certain I know what you are saying; if you simply want to claim you can take out a single borg drone with a shovel then I agree. Having a target that gives you a free shot makes this a no brainer.

If you claim you can do the hero thing and take down drones left and right until sundown with only a shovel then forgive me for laughing at someone who has seen the heroes in action too often.

These are not zombies; they fight back when motivated to do so. You killing one or even two of them will motivate them; they can duck, grab your weapon and strike back like a pickup truck at 20. And they will swarm you from every direction available.
If Walper is right (and I see no reason he is not) then combat drones will likely own you very quickly. The problem with fighting drones is while you slash open one drone's face another grabs you from behind; when several converge at once you need a lightsabre to get out of it, not a shovel.

[Star-Blighter]

Keep something in mind about the Borg philosophy: They do not fear and they do not hurry unless they have to. Drones don't rush troops or run away or dive behind cover because they don't care; they have no fear or even simple concern. They don't even have much a self preservation instinct. Hence they blunder into phaser fire and rarely bother to block guys with gun butts or swords--it seems up to individual Borg preference, some try to defend themselves some don't.

If I may, I'd suggest it's likely to be more of a Borg drone programming/function issue. Most drones don't bother performing hand to hand combat techniques because, well, that's not really their function. One thing we know is that drones are heavily optimized for specific tasks. Tactical drones, scout drones, medical drones, etc. Each one is best suited for specific types of tasks. The Borg's objective in ST:First Contact was to assimilate a Starfleet ship and combat Starfleet personnel (this would suggest beam as many drones over that could handle human opponents and assimilate an enemy craft quickly). Never saw one Starfleet redshirt or normal crewman put up a serious fight or combat the Borg other than with their ultimately useless phaser weapons. Worf and Data are literately one of a kind Starfleet personnel, and ultimately, their presence did not saved the Enterprise from being overrun.

I made mention of an example of a Borg drone taking down a Klingon with a Bat'Leth. I strongly suspect if we'd seen the Borg attempt to take over a Klingon ship, we'd have seen alot more drones "optimized" to deal with stronger and hand to hand weapon wielding foes.

This is no different from the borg sending one cube at a time. Why, in the name of fucking christ would you send anything less than your best combat units in to battle, especially when your plans are on the line (why not beam over better armed and armored combat drones in ST:FC?).

As for your example of specialization, A field radio tech has a rather specific duty: To set up and maintain comunications in the theater of battle he is in. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have atleast BASIC rifle and combat training. Considering the supposed "superiority" of borg drones to normal humans, why are they incapable of performing simple functions that anyone even remotely competent can perform, such as actual hth combat technique outside of "lurch, shuffle, shuffle,lurch" while trying in vain to suck the bloo-erm, I mean assimilate their targets.

The Borg are just another overhyped villan with flaws and weaknesses too numerous to mention.

[The Silence and I]

Not to start being a borg fan whore or anything, but each time one cube was sent it should have won. The Borg play the numbers game and the numbers were in their favor each time with only one cube. Putting the Queen on one ship may seem stupid, but the Queen is quite replacable. They have quirks but it has served them just fine.

And before Robert says it: The Borg that beamed over to the Enterprise E were well suited to fighting Federation security forces. What Worf and Data can do to drones is IRELEVENT because no other member of the Enterprise crew can be expected to match a drone physically, with the weapons they had.

Have you forgotten that the crew LOST? And swiftly too? The drones sent were able to negate the phasers AKA only weapon red shirts have. Attempts by humans to be physical like Worf or Data resulted in pwnage; how the exceptional heroes compare to drones is not a benchmark. The Borg won, and they didn't even hurry...

[SirNitram]

Not to start being a borg fan whore or anything, but each time one cube was sent it should have won. The Borg play the numbers game and the numbers were in their favor each time with only one cube. Putting the Queen on one ship may seem stupid, but the Queen is quite replacable. They have quirks but it has served them just fine.

Thank you for proving that the basic, outrageous stupidity of the Borg exists beyond just them. You don't even get redundancy.

[Star-Blighter]

I do not doubt the lethality of a shovel, particularly if sharpened. What I doubt is your success. You have a distinct advantage in reach and weaponry over a borg drone and if you have any skill (or enough desperation) I expect you will make the first drone very unhappy. The problem is that once the others decide you are a credible threat they will swarm you and you will not be able to stop them.

Perhaps we should make certain I know what you are saying; if you simply want to claim you can take out a single borg drone with a shovel then I agree. Having a target that gives you a free shot makes this a no brainer.

If you claim you can do the hero thing and take down drones left and right until sundown with only a shovel then forgive me for laughing at someone who has seen the heroes in action too often.

These are not zombies; they fight back when motivated to do so. You killing one or even two of them will motivate them; they can duck, grab your weapon and strike back like a pickup truck at 20. And they will swarm you from every direction available.
If Walper is right (and I see no reason he is not) then combat drones will likely own you very quickly. The problem with fighting drones is while you slash open one drone's face another grabs you from behind; when several converge at once you need a lightsabre to get out of it, not a shovel.

Just like in First Contact, oh wait, it didn't happen that way because the redshirts bent over like fucking pansies in a prison washroom. Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see. There are people on this very board who could do a better job at ship defense with baseball bats and hatchets.

I don't claim to be a one man borg killing angel of death but give me more credit than taking out just ONE drone. Give me a dozen guys with riot gear and fire axes and I'll show just how ineffective the borg are in hand to hand(you thought Worf's knife was bad, just wait to see this).