A (single) Borg(ST) vs Battle Droid(SW).

[Star-Blighter]

Not to start being a borg fan whore or anything, but each time one cube was sent it should have won. The Borg play the numbers game and the numbers were in their favor each time with only one cube. Putting the Queen on one ship may seem stupid, but the Queen is quite replacable. They have quirks but it has served them just fine.

And before Robert says it: The Borg that beamed over to the Enterprise E were well suited to fighting Federation security forces. What Worf and Data can do to drones is IRELEVENT because no other member of the Enterprise crew can be expected to match a drone physically, with the weapons they had.

Have you forgotten that the crew LOST? And swiftly too? The drones sent were able to negate the phasers AKA only weapon red shirts have. Attempts by humans to be physical like Worf or Data resulted in pwnage; how the exceptional heroes compare to drones is not a benchmark. The Borg won, and they didn't even hurry...

So the borg won against a bunch of fucking retards without the common sense to even replicate or fashion ANY kind of melee weapon when their phasers were rendered ineffective. The same retards who can't even melee with a rifle effectively.

As for the cube. When you lose a ship engaging the enemy, what makes more sense to you? Sending one ship of similar capability knowing that said ship type has been destroyed by the enemy before? Or sending a battlegroup with greater firepower and capability to destroy the force in detail via overwhelming numbers? If the answer is not obvious, then you belong on a short bus.

MY GOD! The superiority of the Borg is astounding.... NOT!

You and Walper's posts are seriously straining my faith in your credability.

[The Silence and I]

I am not out to 'prove' the Borg can take on any foe, but I don't see the glaring stupidity claimed by those who have no love for them. They don't need to be highly trained, smart foes with uber tactics because of their situation. They bitchslap everyone in the alpha quadrant because they are that much stronger and tactics on all sides are poor when compared to those used by real life highly trained people. Within their environment the Borg are the best at what they do, it's that simple.

What do the Borg know about the Federation? The first cube bitchslapped the Enterprise D and learned about its defensive and offensive capabilities.

The second cube bitchslapped the Enterprise D, a fleet of 40 starships and Earth's defenses (such as they were) only succumbing to a last minute trick made possible only through Locutus' uplink, a situation I would consider rare. In fact, the cube was completely undamaged at the time it self destructed. This cube had every expectation to win.

The third cube encountered far more resistence than I personally believe it expected was available yet proceeded to bitchslap a very large Federation fleet over an hour+ long battle, only succumbing to another trick of the Enterprise's. This is the only time more than one cube would have been smarter, but A) the collective wasn't prepared for humanity's leaps and bounds in progressment and B) the single cube would have won anyway, indicating it was considered overkill against what the collective expected to face. They were wrong, but the safety margin was enough anyway. The Borg are that much more powerful *shrug*

The handful of Borg that escaped onto the Enterprise came within a hair of assimilating it despite the large number of crew and readily available weaponry. Burly men in riot gear wielding fire axes may be able to cream a force of drones, but such things are not encountered in startrek so the Borg don't have to counter it.

Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see

The red shirt hit the drone full force fair and square. The drone ignored the hit and and it sent him careening into the wall, incapacitated. The indication here is if you are not Worf or Data you have no business trying to hurt a Borg by hitting it. A shovel or fire axe to the face would have been much more effective I imagine, with the sharp blade especially. But the redshirts didn't have any. Explaining that is another story, possibly without a good ending

In short, compare the Borg to those they fight. Unless the Borg have another trick up their funky looking sleeves they will lose a melee to a bunch of folks in riot gear wielding axes, but we can only quantify those drones used to combat foes that don't do things like that.

[Star-Blighter]

I am not out to 'prove' the Borg can take on any foe, but I don't see the glaring stupidity claimed by those who have no love for them. They don't need to be highly trained, smart foes with uber tactics because of their situation. They bitchslap everyone in the alpha quadrant because they are that much stronger and tactics on all sides are poor when compared to those used by real life highly trained people. Within their environment the Borg are the best at what they do, it's that simple.

What do the Borg know about the Federation? The first cube bitchslapped the Enterprise D and learned about its defensive and offensive capabilities.

The second cube bitchslapped the Enterprise D, a fleet of 40 starships and Earth's defenses (such as they were) only succumbing to a last minute trick made possible only through Locutus' uplink, a situation I would consider rare. In fact, the cube was completely undamaged at the time it self destructed. This cube had every expectation to win.

The third cube encountered far more resistence than I personally believe it expected was available yet proceeded to bitchslap a very large Federation fleet over an hour+ long battle, only succumbing to another trick of the Enterprise's. This is the only time more than one cube would have been smarter, but A) the collective wasn't prepared for humanity's leaps and bounds in progressment and B) the single cube would have won anyway, indicating it was considered overkill against what the collective expected to face. They were wrong, but the safety margin was enough anyway. The Borg are that much more powerful *shrug*

The handful of Borg that escaped onto the Enterprise came within a hair of assimilating it despite the large number of crew and readily available weaponry. Burly men in riot gear wielding fire axes may be able to cream a force of drones, but such things are not encountered in startrek so the Borg don't have to counter it.

Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see

The red shirt hit the drone full force fair and square. The drone ignored the hit and and it sent him careening into the wall, incapacitated. The indication here is if you are not Worf or Data you have no business trying to hurt a Borg by hitting it. A shovel or fire axe to the face would have been much more effective I imagine, with the sharp blade especially. But the redshirts didn't have any. Explaining that is another story, possibly without a good ending

In short, compare the Borg to those they fight. Unless the Borg have another trick up their funky looking sleeves they will lose a melee to a bunch of folks in riot gear wielding axes, but we can only quantify those drones used to combat foes that don't do things like that.

Everyone already KNOWS the Borg assrape the other trek powers. That fact in and of itself is completely irrelevent in the extreme with concerns to this debate as the borg aren't being compared to the feds. Borg drones are being compared to battledroids and nomatter how impressive a faction/tech/race is in it's own universe, it STILL must be proven that said faction/tech/race stacks up with OTHER universe's capabilities.

Regardless, the borg show the complete absence of any concept of tactics or even common fucking sense when compared to other, more solidly imagined foes.

No matter how much you whine about the Borg being the big stick in the trekverse, when compared to other universes, your claim means one thing:

Didily.

Fucking.

Squat.

Concession Accepted.

[Robert Walper]

This is no different from the borg sending one cube at a time. Why, in the name of fucking christ would you send anything less than your best combat units in to battle, especially when your plans are on the line (why not beam over better armed and armored combat drones in ST:FC?).

Borg mentality is overly geared towards optimization and efficiency. They prefer exacting results rather than "throw so much shit at the enemy victory was assured 99% applied resources ago". I suggest you consult a dictionary on the term of efficiency which we know damn well the Borg are literately obsessed with.

As for your example of specialization, A field radio tech has a rather specific duty: To set up and maintain comunications in the theater of battle he is in. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have atleast BASIC rifle and combat training. Considering the supposed "superiority" of borg drones to normal humans, why are they incapable of performing simple functions that anyone even remotely competent can perform, such as actual hth combat technique outside of "lurch, shuffle, shuffle,lurch" while trying in vain to suck the bloo-erm, I mean assimilate their targets.

Perhaps you missed the fact the drones in ST:First Contact succeeded in taking the Enterprise.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people whining about the drones in First contact being "inadaquate" to accomplish their objective of taking the Enterprise when that's exactly what they did, even with two opponents of superior abilities that didn't change the outcome anyhow. The best that happened is a secondary objective was prevented. Big deal. Assimilation of the Enterprise and Earth was a priority.

The Borg are just another overhyped villan with flaws and weaknesses too numerous to mention.

The Borg are by no means perfect and have many flaws. What's your point? Again, I'm sick and fucking tired of people whining how the Borg are not "perfect". Who gives a shit? The Galactic Empire isn't perfect. The Federation isn't perfect. The Culture isn't perfect. The US Military isn't perfect either. Whoopie...fucking...doo.

[Robert Walper]

Just like in First Contact, oh wait, it didn't happen that way because the redshirts bent over like fucking pansies in a prison washroom. Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see. There are people on this very board who could do a better job at ship defense with baseball bats and hatchets.

I don't claim to be a one man borg killing angel of death but give me more credit than taking out just ONE drone. Give me a dozen guys with riot gear and fire axes and I'll show just how ineffective the borg are in hand to hand(you thought Worf's knife was bad, just wait to see this).

So, in other words, the Borg kicked the shit out of the Federation personnel because they were incompetent, weak and not your personnal example of a shovel weilding expert. Great, so the Borg know their enemy. Where's the problem? The Borg succeeded is kicking the shit out of the Enterprise's personnel, but because "you" and your self created group of Borg bashers could do better, their efforts was shitty? Forgive me if I laugh.

Let me illustrate:

Team A kicks the shit out of team B. Team C can kick the shit out team A, therefore, team A is shitty, despite the fact team A was intented to combat team B, not team C.

[Star-Blighter]

Just like in First Contact, oh wait, it didn't happen that way because the redshirts bent over like fucking pansies in a prison washroom. Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see. There are people on this very board who could do a better job at ship defense with baseball bats and hatchets.

I don't claim to be a one man borg killing angel of death but give me more credit than taking out just ONE drone. Give me a dozen guys with riot gear and fire axes and I'll show just how ineffective the borg are in hand to hand(you thought Worf's knife was bad, just wait to see this).

So, in other words, the Borg kicked the shit out of the Federation personnel because they were incompetent, weak and not your personnal example of a shovel weilding expert. Great, so the Borg know their enemy. Where's the problem? The Borg succeeded is kicking the shit out of the Enterprise's personnel, but because "you" and your self created group of Borg bashers could do better, their efforts was shitty? Forgive me if I laugh.

Let me illustrate:

Team A kicks the shit out of team B. Team C can kick the shit out team A, therefore, team A is shitty, despite the fact team A was intented to combat team B, not team C.

When modern day firefighters are more of a threat to Borg drones then the security personel on Federation starships, then yes, their efforts ARE infact REALLY FUCKING SHITTY. Prove otherwise, if you can.

And you speak of my hypothetical group as though there is something wrong with showing just how utterly stupid the Borg can be and often are.

And yes my "Hatchet Men" would go through drones rather effectively. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make the example any less valid or accurate.

Starfleet security personel are so dependent on phasers to do their dirty work for them, that when they encounter an enemy that can render their main weapon useless, they panic and do their jobs so poorly that a firebrigade is MORE dangerous then they are (hell why didn't they replicate medieval weapons such as maces and swords if they won't use TR116's to defend themselves). Anything, and I really mean anything (even a suicide bumrush) beats sitting around like a deer in the headlights, waiting to get assimilated.

Your bullshit about borg drones being optimized against starfleet personel is no fucking excuse for their inability to understand basic combat doctrines. What are you trying to suggest? That "somehow" the drones will be more effective against the Hatchet Men? How? You speculate without proof and try to pass that speculation as fact and then get pissy when someone shits on your wetdream with a dose of "Reality TM."

When you show me drones that can do more than impersonate the night of the living dead zombies, then I'll take you seriously.

[Robert Walper]

When modern day firefighters are more of a threat to Borg drones then the security personel on Federation starships, then yes, their efforts ARE infact REALLY FUCKING SHITTY. Prove otherwise, if you can.

You can bitch all you want about how Borg drones would have their asses handed to them by ants for all I care. The fact of the matter is they beat the opponents they were put up against. Get over it.

And you speak of my hypothetical group as though there is something wrong with showing just how utterly stupid the Borg can be and often are.

Oh my! You can create a different type of enemy that would defeat displayed abilities and tactics of this particular force. Whoopie shit. Guess what Sherlock? You can do that with any god damn force with sufficient analysis, prep time and resources. Particularily when you're creating such a force with the wave of your hand in a debate.

And yes my "Hatchet Men" would go through drones rather effectively. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make the example any less valid or accurate.

I'll let you know when I really give a rat's ass. A force of gun toting hill billies driving an armored car would kick the shit out of your "hatchet wielding" troops. So your force is pretty shitty. See how it works?

Starfleet security personel are so dependent on phasers to do their dirty work for them, that when they encounter an enemy that can render their main weapon useless, they panic and do their jobs so poorly that a firebrigade is MORE dangerous then they are (hell why didn't they replicate medieval weapons such as maces and swords if they won't use TR116's to defend themselves). Anything, and I really mean anything (even a suicide bumrush) beats sitting around like a deer in the headlights, waiting to get assimilated.

Again, you're just whining the Borg kick the crap out of Federation forces when they "should" be able to do better. That's not my problem. The Borg deployed a force that achieved their objective.

Your bullshit about borg drones being optimized against starfleet personel is no fucking excuse for their inability to understand basic combat doctrines.

Becasue the drones needed that expertise to win against...oh wait! They won anyhow. Guess your demand they should have those skills is utterly useless, huh?

What are you trying to suggest? That "somehow" the drones will be more effective against the Hatchet Men? How? You speculate without proof and try to pass that speculation as fact and then get pissy when someone shits on your wetdream with a dose of "Reality TM."

All the evidence has been provided that the Borg optimize themselves against specific forces and have a set mentality on going about defeating them. You're continued whining about how the Borg force would be beaten by a mythical other force is completely beside the point. In this thread, the evidence has been presented that suggests a unarmed typical battledroid would probably lose in a hand to hand fight with the typical drone.

When you show me drones that can do more than impersonate the night of the living dead zombies, then I'll take you seriously.

I haven't seen a single point on your end that serves a purpose than other Borg bashing. This is a Borg drone verus Battle droid thread.

You claim Borg drones would be slaughtered by the dozens by your hatchet men is completely irrelevent. Your hatchet men would be slaughtered by armed police officiers. Police officers would be slaughtered by trained armored military forces. Those forces would be slaughtered by orbital bombardment from a spacecraft. An GCS would be slaughtered by an ISD, a ISD would be slaughtered by Culture ship. Ad infinitum. So, by your logic, all said forces are complete shit because another force can defeat them soundly. What you don't seem to grasp is you analyse the force on the basis of what it was up against and how well it did. And in this case, the drones kicked the crap out of the Federation ones.

Now, can we go back to the drone versus battledroid topic, or do you wish to continue this thread hijack?

[The Silence and I]

In the spirit of the original topic, can anyone offer a good reason a bog standard battledroid should win a brawl against a bog standard drone?

It has been shown the droids readily succumb to blunt trama and it has also been shown that drones have the strength of many men.

Drones appear to out mass droids by a significant amount which is a powerful factor in a brawl style fight.

Neither drone nor droid has much skill fighting hand to hand but the drones seem to have good enough timing to school main characters in unarmed combat (best example is BOBW pt 1). The droids have demonstrated little but we know they have very poor skills even within their primary function (shooting things), attributing them superior skills in a secondary function would be silly and unfounded.

We can safely say the droid gets the first hit, but I question a standard battledroid's ability to win this fight with one hit. On the other hand I find it likely a drone can win with a single hit for reasons stated many times.

Why does anyone think a standard battledroid should win this?

[Robert Walper]

Why does anyone think a standard battledroid should win this?

I honestly think for some there's this pissing contest to make sure nothing in Trek beats anything of Wars. *shrugs* Don't ask me why...but on topic I think the evidence certainly favors the drone over the typical battle droid.

Which reminds me, another factor favoring the drone is the fact they can regenerate significant damage and injuries. Neelix got hit with a energy blast killing him in STVOY "Mortal Coil". Seven used Borg nanoprobes to revive him several hours after he was declared dead. Drones have also revived under numerous examples of being "dead". The drones from ENT "Regeneration" (same ones from FC), the drones from STVOY "Unity". Seven of Nine once cut herself helping with repairs to Voyager, and complained that as a drone, such a "minor" injury would've been healed immediately by her Borg implants and nanoprobes(which we know to be dormant).

[Lord Revan]

Well if you ask me I'd say that a drone would win a B1 in HtH (but the again a single B1 isn't much of threat (it's as bumb as a boot and not very robust.), but a B2 or heaven fobid a IG-100 would own a Borg Drone, since a hit to the arm did stop a B2 and you're lucky if even hit IG-100 let alone bring one down (unless you're a bad ass jedi that is).

[The Silence and I]

I think everyone here agrees a B2 droid would win; IG-88 is over kill and not part of the topic...

[Lord Revan]

I think everyone here agrees a B2 droid would win; IG-88 is over kill and not part of the topic...

IG-100, IG-88 is a nother design and yes it's overkill as a melee fighter unlike the others.

[The Silence and I]

Sorry, saw the IG and went from there

The problem is the strange belief that a lightweight idiot droid can beat a heavyweight stronger idiot drone.

Now a heavyweight strong idiot droid should be able to beat a heavyweight idiot drone, but that is not the issue.

And IG-100 is simply random.

[Junghalli]

I remember I used to feel the same way. I thought the original ones looked more...how to put it...artificial and less "smooth" and organic in design?
I still think the new "look" for the Borg cubes is superior though. They look darker and more "menacing".

Nah, the old look was much better. The Borg were a much cooler species before they were reimagined into being space undead (fuck you B&B ).

[Junghalli]

Just like in First Contact, oh wait, it didn't happen that way because the redshirts bent over like fucking pansies in a prison washroom. Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see. There are people on this very board who could do a better job at ship defense with baseball bats and hatchets.

I'm pretty sure Worf is stronger than an average human, and Data definitely is. Think about it, which one is really more likely, that a Borg drone owns an unarmed human or "OMFG teh Fedzors suxors & r teh pussy-a$$ b1tches."

I don't claim to be a one man borg killing angel of death but give me more credit than taking out just ONE drone.

Yeah, it'll probably happen something like this.
Star Blighter smashes in the face of drone#1 with Borg-pwning shovel of death. Drones #2 and 3 grab Star Blighter and assimilate him. Drone #1 is hauled off for repairs.

Starfleet security personel are so dependent on phasers to do their dirty work for them, that when they encounter an enemy that can render their main weapon useless, they panic and do their jobs so poorly that a firebrigade is MORE dangerous then they are(hell why didn't they replicate medieval weapons such as maces and swords if they won't use TR116's to defend themselves).

Imagine trying to stab a Borg drone with the kind of standard issue survival knife a redshirt is likely to be carrying. I doubt anything short of a sword is going to be able to get through the metal exoskeleton. So the redshirt has to get within arms reach of an enemy with massively enhanced strength and those nanoprobe injectors and slit its throat. You're better off using your rifle as a club, which is exactly what we generally see them doing.
You have a good point about replicating swords and hatchets though.

Anything, and I really mean anything (even a suicide bumrush) beats sitting around like a deer in the headlights, waiting to get assimilated.

I can't remember that happening in FC. Actually, as far as I can tell, they were actually fighting against the Borg through most of the movie, which sort of crushes your argument about how they're all complete pussies who broke and ran instantly.

[Lord Revan]

And IG-100 is simply random.

Well the IG-100s are Gen Grievous' elite Magnaguards.

[The Silence and I]

I. did. not. know. that.

But what I meant was bringing them up in this debate concerning solely Borg and battledroids mark one and two is a little random. That's all.

[BringerOfLight]

Since we've largely reached a concensus on how well a battledroid fares against a drone, I think its time for a new question:

How many B1 battledroids would it take to defeat a single Drone in unarmed combat?

[The Silence and I]

I don't know if there is a good answer to this; we would have much more to work with if we saw the droids getting physical more often. I can say if I were in a Borg's body it would take a large number of droids, but that doesn't mean much.

The B1's are frail and feather light; there is no good reason a Borg drone couldn't strike several down before the droids could get close enough to grapple/strike back. A drone has little to fear from one or two droids grappling but a few of them could knock a drone over. I think it would take knocking the drone to the ground to win, so how ever many droids it takes to pull that off. *shrug*

[Lord Revan]

Since we've largely reached a concensus on how well a battledroid fares against a drone, I think its time for a new question:

How many B1 battledroids would it take to defeat a single Drone in unarmed combat?

Well it depend on two things is the B1s still linked control computer, if not what is the indepent combat integence of a B1 droid (Mk. 2, Mk. 1 would just shut down) and do the droid "know" what it takes to disable a Drone. It could as low as two or high as hundreds.

[Robert Walper]

Since we've largely reached a concensus on how well a battledroid fares against a drone, I think its time for a new question:

How many B1 battledroids would it take to defeat a single Drone in unarmed combat?

Well, the consesus seems to be one on one a drone would beat a B1. Increasing the number of B1's naturally gives them an advantage. Given the strength, durability, regenerative ability and mass of a drone, my guess is that it could probably handle two or three. After that, I'm sure the B1's could bring it down and damage it enough to win.

Would be easier if we knew what kind of tactics the B1s would employ. The only hand to hand I recall seeing B1s perform is wrestling around with Gungans. If that is the limit to their ability for hand to hand, the drone could have a distinct advantage, as we've seen them engage in alot more physical combat moves than just wrestling around. Drones have been witnessed to throw, hit and grab their opponents, and with significant force as well.

[Star-Blighter]

Just like in First Contact, oh wait, it didn't happen that way because the redshirts bent over like fucking pansies in a prison washroom. Outside of Worf and Data we see precisely one attempt at melee by a human, and it is truly a pathetic sight to see. There are people on this very board who could do a better job at ship defense with baseball bats and hatchets.

I'm pretty sure Worf is stronger than an average human, and Data definitely is. Think about it, which one is really more likely, that a Borg drone owns an unarmed human or "OMFG teh Fedzors suxors & r teh pussy-a$$ b1tches."

I think I'll use a Voyager example to show inconsistancy in borg strength. After the incident in Scorpion pt 1 & 2 where Seven of Nine is captured and seperated from the collective, Janeway goes to see her condition with the doc and Tuvok. Seven demands to be returned to the collective and Janeway says no. Moments after this exchange an implant is rejected, and seven makes a violent attempt to leave her alcove. This attempt is stopped cold when tuvok shoves her back into the alcove and seven is sedated.

A drone may be stronger than your avaerage human, but they are not stronger than your average Vulcan and most likely much weaker then Data as Data strength>>>Vulcan strength.

I don't claim to be a one man borg killing angel of death but give me more credit than taking out just ONE drone.

Yeah, it'll probably happen something like this.
Star Blighter smashes in the face of drone#1 with Borg-pwning shovel of death. Drones #2 and 3 grab Star Blighter and assimilate him. Drone #1 is hauled off for repairs.

More like: Blighter thrust his "Very Sharp pwning Shovel of Doomzerz TM" into drone #1's windpipe, likely causing fatal damage resulting in massive blood loss, trauma, and a very dead drone. Blighter uses his god-given pereferal vision to notice drone #2 and drone #3 lurching towards him from two angles. Because Blighter isn't a fucking idiot, he gets hatchet man #2 to cover his back while Blighter makes a diagonal swipe at drone #2's neck, resulting in a hail of sparks and gooy stuff leaking out as the shovel head cleaves into the drone, shattering it's clavical and rendering the drone combat ineffective. A swift thrust, and drone #2 is now combat ineffectrive and headless. Hatchet man # 2 is in trouble though, as drone # 3 has backed him into a corner and is prepering to deploy the injection tubiles. Becuase drone#3 is facing away from Blighter, he has a kill shot via a horizontal swipe across the back of the neck. Blighter takes the shot, but misses, striking an armored section just below the head and neck region. Drone#3 turns around and violently strikes blighter back. The blow is blocked, but now blighter is in quite prediciment. The drone approaches blighter and prepares to assimlate him. Then, drone# 3 stops, jerking slightly as it falls to floor, revealing hatchet man #2 behind, holding a now quite bloody fire axe in his hands.

NEXT!

Starfleet security personel are so dependent on phasers to do their dirty work for them, that when they encounter an enemy that can render their main weapon useless, they panic and do their jobs so poorly that a firebrigade is MORE dangerous then they are(hell why didn't they replicate medieval weapons such as maces and swords if they won't use TR116's to defend themselves).

Imagine trying to stab a Borg drone with the kind of standard issue survival knife a redshirt is likely to be carrying. I doubt anything short of a sword is going to be able to get through the metal exoskeleton. So the redshirt has to get within arms reach of an enemy with massively enhanced strength and those nanoprobe injectors and slit its throat. You're better off using your rifle as a club, which is exactly what we generally see them doing.
You have a good point about replicating swords and hatchets though.

You do know that redshirts don't even CARRY knives right? Worf is the only security officer I know of who carries any weapon aside from phasers.

I NEVER suggested at any time that a survival knife would work. I suggested full fledged melee weapons. Frankly, you'd be fool to fight a drone with any blade under 18 inches in length. Although Worf DID kill a drone with a knife while EVA.

Anything, and I really mean anything (even a suicide bumrush) beats sitting around like a deer in the headlights, waiting to get assimilated.

I can't remember that happening in FC. Actually, as far as I can tell, they were actually fighting against the Borg through most of the movie, which sort of crushes your argument about how they're all complete pussies who broke and ran instantly.

There are several scenes in the first battle on the enterprise where redshirts acted as as though they had no fucking clue there was combat going on. One attempted to climb a ladder with a drone FIVE fucking feet away approaching him. said redshirt was yanked back down and folded like a cheap poker hand. A scene later in the movie shows a panicky redshirt standing in a corridor, fucking with his phaser rifle while drones approach him. This sad excuse for a grunt didn't even look up from his weapon until the drone was practically on top of him. The redshirt is grabed from behind by another drone and doesn't even fire a shot off. I'll admit this: the borg have a better grasp of flancking manuevers than starfleet security (which isn't saying much when it comes to trek infantry ineptitude).

Infact, outside of the first infantry (haha, infantry. Thats funny) battle there are very few (like one, perhaps) instances of your bog standard redshirt actually firing at drones or even shooting in general.

No, redshirts aren't entirely pussies. They are fucking brain-dead retards who make untrained civilians look like Delta Force. ST redshirts are a sad, half-assed pretense of the Federation having a groundforce. A street gang would be more effective then they are as atleast they can fight.

[Star-Blighter]

Since we've largely reached a concensus on how well a battledroid fares against a drone, I think its time for a new question:

How many B1 battledroids would it take to defeat a single Drone in unarmed combat?

Well, the consesus seems to be one on one a drone would beat a B1. Increasing the number of B1's naturally gives them an advantage. Given the strength, durability, regenerative ability and mass of a drone, my guess is that it could probably handle two or three. After that, I'm sure the B1's could bring it down and damage it enough to win.

Would be easier if we knew what kind of tactics the B1s would employ. The only hand to hand I recall seeing B1s perform is wrestling around with Gungans. If that is the limit to their ability for hand to hand, the drone could have a distinct advantage, as we've seen them engage in alot more physical combat moves than just wrestling around. Drones have been witnessed to throw, hit and grab their opponents, and with significant force as well.

If you consider walking slowly toward the pajama wearing guys and grabing them like fucking zombies to be a "tactic", then yes the borg are more capable in melee then battledroids. The problem is that the walking slowly towards somone and grabing them is NOT a tactic and it never will be.

We know B1's are a rough match for gungans in a melee. Take into account the incredible strength thats required for some of Jar-Jars physical actions (his leaping ability), and I'd say that you are greatly underestimating the strength of a b1.

And walper, if borg drones are so tough and durable, why was picard able to tear through a drones "exoplating" and gooy bits to get the neural processor with his BARE FINGERS. I somehow doubt Picard could do the same to a B1's armored chassis.

Your bullshit is mindboggling. You might want to put on a tinfoil hat when you post from now on. Fucking wanker.

[Robert Walper]

I think I'll use a Voyager example to show inconsistancy in borg strength. After the incident in Scorpion pt 1 & 2 where Seven of Nine is captured and seperated from the collective, Janeway goes to see her condition with the doc and Tuvok. Seven demands to be returned to the collective and Janeway says no. Moments after this exchange an implant is rejected, and seven makes a violent attempt to leave her alcove. This attempt is stopped cold when tuvok shoves her back into the alcove and seven is sedated.

You know what? I'm calling fucking bullshit. I heavily suspect you're either outright lying or completely ignorant to what you're recalling. Seven of Nine was never seperated from the Collective until the very end of STVOY "Scorpion Part 2". The only physical confrontation she did throughout the entire two parter was when she hurled Paris from the navigation console and began to assimilate it.

The episode you're probably recalling is STVOY "The Gift". In that episode Seven of Nine was being stripped of her implants and being surgically "fixed" by the Doctor. I consulted the episode transcript, and it does make mention of of a implant being rejected by Seven's body and her demand to be returned to the Collective. No description of the events is mentioned, so for the time being I'm going to reject your intepretation of said event (I don't recall Tuvok ever man handling Seven). The fact her body was rejecting implants (physical trauma) and she was being sedated doesn't exactly favor her in a confrontation for that matter anyhow.

On the other hand, let's look at a much better example of the former Borg drone engaging Tuvok in hand to hand combat:

PARIS: I've located Seven's shuttle. It's two point five million kilometres from here.
TUVOK: Adjust course to intercept.
PARIS: The implants in Seven's body are disrupting the transporter signal. I can't get a lock.
TUVOK: See if you can remodulate our transporters to match her shields
PARIS: You want to beam in there?
TUVOK: Yes.
PARIS: I'm not sure that's a good idea, Tuvok. Close quarter, Borg against Vulcan, you won't stand a chance if she decides to put up a fight.
TUVOK: It is my hope that the element of surprise will work in my favour. Do you have a better idea?
PARIS: Come to think of it, no. She's charging weapons.

After Tuvok beams in, he and Seven get into a grapple. Tuvok is clearly exerting himself, while Seven looks almost casual in her handling of him. Within seconds she employes what looks like a neck pinch and renders him unconscious.

A drone may be stronger than your avaerage human, but they are not stronger than your average Vulcan and most likely much weaker then Data as Data strength>>>Vulcan strength.

You're obviosuly a fucking moron with no real arguement against the numerous Borg strength examples brought forth earlier. Your best effort was a (dubious claim) about how Seven was "man handled" by Tuvok when her body was ungoing phyiscal trauma and she was being sedated.

[Robert Walper]

If you consider walking slowly toward the pajama wearing guys and grabing them like fucking zombies to be a "tactic", then yes the borg are more capable in melee then battledroids. The problem is that the walking slowly towards somone and grabing them is NOT a tactic and it never will be.

Drones can run and move fast if necessary. Get over it.

We know B1's are a rough match for gungans in a melee. Take into account the incredible strength thats required for some of Jar-Jars physical actions (his leaping ability), and I'd say that you are greatly underestimating the strength of a b1.

If you'd read the earlier parts of the thread, I've already mentioned it seems likely Gungans are lightweight creatures (little Watto can push Jar Jar around easily), though with strong legs (relatively) to perform their jumping feats. Their legs being extra strong makes sense if they are indeed aquadic and use them primarily for swimming.

And walper, if borg drones are so tough and durable, why was picard able to tear through a drones "exoplating" and gooy bits to get the neural processor with his BARE FINGERS. I somehow doubt Picard could do the same to a B1's armored chassis.

Another idiotic claim. The fact that Picard chewed through those drones a minute before with a fucking machine gun wouldn't have anything to do with it, now would it? Not to mention those drones had what appeared to be just basic leather like armor. Not all drones are the same. Another thing I've mentioned repeatedly dumbass.

Your bullshit is mindboggling. You might want to put on a tinfoil hat when you post from now on. Fucking wanker.

Normally I'm just a tad bit more polite in my responses, but given your incredible stupidity, stupid claims and possibly outright lying, don't expect such nor expect me to get all worried about your perception of me.