Switching to atheism: is it difficult?

[Wicked Pilot]

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

The biggest obstacle for me was the loss of the social benefits of being part of the Christian community. Back in the day most of, if not all, or my good acquaintances came from the church or other religoius organizaitons. When I deconverted in late 2000 that was all pretty much ripped away. Louisiana is not an environment where one finds many open atheist or atheist groups. In fact I didn't meet another atheist in the flesh until three years later. Sometimes in my weaker moments I wish I could go back to being part of the group, especially my home town church which is really progressive, but living a lie to do so is simply not acceptable in my book.

[Elheru Aran]

If atheism just ain't your cup of tea, agnosticism/deism work nicely. At least deism does for me...

[Firefox]

My parents were agnostic, leaning atheist when I was born. For a while I flirted with deism, not really knowing what to believe in (more of a peer pressure thing, since many adults and my classmates expressed belief in some god). After entering middle, and then high, school I decided religion wasn't for me. Growing up in a secular home and lacking membership in any congregation made it pretty easy. We subscribe to Scientific American, Astronomy, Discover Magazine, National Geographic, et. al.

As for encountering individuals who attacked my beliefs, that was confined to high school pretty much, and was committed by one or two Southern Baptists who, although I never saw them together (one in my freshman year, the second in senior), they parroted the same rhetoric, about how "I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right," and such.

I rarely bring up my atheism unless the subject comes up, and if someone takes a jab at people who possess no belief. It's becoming more common on the B-29 restoration project, since all of the volunteers are veterans and retired aircraft workers. There are quite a few conservative comments from those individuals.

[Rye]

If atheism just ain't your cup of tea, agnosticism/deism work nicely. At least deism does for me...

Weren't you saying you were a southern baptist or something in a thread ages ago, or was that someone else?

[Alyeska]

My parents began my religious education rather late in my life. I think I was 8, maybe even 10 before I went to church for the first time. When I was younger I had been introduced to the concept of God, but not much behind that. Being a kid and seeing my parents as all knowing, I accepted that. I remember a friend my age asking me to define God and pointing out that logically speaking something had to create God. I never really paid much attention, hey, I was only 7 at the time. I start going to church finally, but my parents also loved having me watch science shows on PBS (Nova and the Geology based shows were always a hit) or the Discovery channel. I loved these shows. Eventually I got introduced to the concept of Evolution and thought that was pretty damned cool. At some point I became aware there was disagreement with Evolution in the church (Methodist was where I went). I attempted to rationalize that Evolution could work with God being responsible. After all, the evidence for Evolution was clear, to deny it is really really stupid. I brought this up with the local minister and she agreed.

The first real strike against religion and the first real push towards Atheism occurred when I was around 12 or 13 years old. I knew quite a lot about geology and the continental drift theories and knew of the mid atlantic ocean ridge. I had been vaguely aware of the story of Noah’s Ark as well. Then I watch this steaming pile of shit program on TV claiming all sorts of evidence that Noah’s Ark had infact existed and they claimed water shot out of the ground and created the ocean ridge’s. That immediately rung a very loud bell in my head and I was thinking “This is very wrong”. After learning more about the story of Noah I quickly realized how absurd the whole thing was. Over the years it became increasingly obvious how no evidence in support of religion existed. I had been a nominal Atheist by the time I was 17, but listening to a particular tape a friend of mine had permanently sealed my being an Atheist. Some nutjob was talking about Faith and how Christianity depends entirely on it and how evidence and proof is not required. That flies in the face of logic and I immediately poked a dozen holes in the claim by simply imagining in my mind what the courts would be like if this was argued.

My parents encouragement in my learning the sciences combined with their apathetic approach to religion when I was younger ensured that I would become an Atheist. While they feel disappointed in my choice, I have a sneaking suspicion I was intentionally raised the way I was because they wanted to let me make a choice rather then force their beliefs on me. To this day my dad thinks I am a very good and moral person, but struggles with my not going to church and realizing that I don’t need religion to be a good person.

[Alyeska]

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

The biggest obstacle for me was the loss of the social benefits of being part of the Christian community. Back in the day most of, if not all, or my good acquaintances came from the church or other religoius organizaitons. When I deconverted in late 2000 that was all pretty much ripped away. Louisiana is not an environment where one finds many open atheist or atheist groups. In fact I didn't meet another atheist in the flesh until three years later. Sometimes in my weaker moments I wish I could go back to being part of the group, especially my home town church which is really progressive, but living a lie to do so is simply not acceptable in my book.

I say church be damned. When I made it known I was an Atheist I didn't stop taking part in certain church functions. There are many good people I am friends with at the local church and I still maintain contact with them. A large number have been praying for me in when it came to job hunting, and I am happy they wish me well.

[Zeond]

I was rather lucky in the fashion that neither of my parents are very religious even though one of my grandmothers was very religious and went to church every single day. So while I did not have the parental pressure I also did not have the school pressure. My school up to grade 7, while nominally catholic, only made us attend mass once a week and once you reached grade 7 it was fully optional. I prefered the extra free hour once a week, of course. Not the kind of thing you would expect to see in a South American country.

So my faith was never very strong to begin with and I did not have the various societal pressures many people encounter. Once I moved to Canada and started learning more about science I simply decided that religion and their control was all simply BS and that that there was no need for it. Thankfully most of my family agrees and the only time I have been back at church in the last 10 years has been for the funeral of friend of the family.

The reason Deism doesn't work for me is because I refuse to make the logical jump from "there are many things we can't explain right now" so therefore there has to be a god/deity/higher being to explain those. I am quite happy not knowing all the answers and realize that there is no way we will ever learn everything even if we could live thousands of years. This does not mean that I won't try to learn as much as I can of what we already know.

[felineki]

I went to a Lutheran school for most of my elementary school career (Kindergarten-7th grade), so I was pretty indoctrinated... Bible classes, memorization and repetition of Bible verses, mandatory participation in school religious musicals, the whole shebang. If anything, this actually helped me later on, because once the notion of questioning this stuff finally came full circle in my head, I was able to look back and see how much of it was nonsensical.

[Elheru Aran]

If atheism just ain't your cup of tea, agnosticism/deism work nicely. At least deism does for me...

Weren't you saying you were a southern baptist or something in a thread ages ago, or was that someone else?

Me. Since then I've more or less become apathetic about the whole business. I believe God exists, but I leave him alone, he leaves me alone... *shrugs* I guess that'd qualify as deism? Not sure what to call it.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The hardest part of deconversion for me is accepting that my prized "Heaven" could very well not exist and that my existence could end at death.

[2000AD]

Around 8 or so I learned Santa wasn't real by finding my xmas presents. That was completely gutting at the time because I knew I'd been lied to, and felt like I'd been manipulated because Santa could supposedly see you all the time and knew whether you'd been good or not (that's 1 omniscient pseudodeity down).

That's probably another small reason as well.
If things like the tooth fairy and santa claus, which at least give you some sort of evidence for existence, aren't real then how can you say some god with no evidence at all exists?

[Enforcer Talen]

Well, there are people uncontaminated and being raised as atheist.

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

As for myself, the most difficult part is overcoming the human need to worship something bigger than us. Funny, I just can't stop praying, and sometimes swearing to the Guy Above when things get difficult. Old habits die hard (especially when you have been living it for almost 30 years).

Care to share some tips?

research the origins of the religion you had. all sorts of things in it.

[wautd]

Well, there are people uncontaminated and being raised as atheist.

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

Simple, I just grew up

[Lusankya]

See, if you guys think I would make a bad atheist (because I go for it out of disappointment), then just stop me now. Regardless of anything, I'm still interested in atheism and I don't want to enter it out of despair.

You know, it's not up to us to decide whether or not you'd make a good atheist. There is no such thing as a "good atheist" or a "bad atheist", there's just a "good people" and "bad people". Just find what you're comfortable with: if you're more comfortable with a world where you believe there is no god, then become an athesit. If you feel more comfortable believing there is a god, then find your own way to believe that.

The only real advice I can give is that no matter what path you choose, you should try not to become bitter, and to always follow your conscience.

I hope that helps some.

[Edi]

My family was never that religious (mom believes in God on some level, I guess, dad doesn't give a shit (and he works for the church, more's the irony)). I got taught some prayers when I was a kid, but there was never a push for it. And at the tender age of 7, first year of school, after we had been hearing about Jesus and his miracles in religion class (everyone who belongs to a religion gets religious education according to the tenets of that religion, those who do not belong to a religion get ethics classes), I did a quick analysis about turning water into wine and walking on water merely by wishing it, and concluded that it was all a bunch of bullshit because I couldn't do them myself and neither could anyone else I knew. My oldest friend can still remember it, as I can, we just walked out the front door of the school and stood on the landing there, looking out over the schoolyard and I said to him "I don't believe in God." That's been it ever since.

My great interest in science ever since I could read has considerably helped in detecting the more insidious forms of religious fanaticism and lies, but I never even knew about Creationism and all the other bullshit you Americans and Canadians have to routinely deal with until I started getting active with net forums around 1999. I was totally flabbergasted, to the say the least.

Edi

[Stark]

To be frank, it sounds like you're an atheist already. You think for yourself, you aren't prey to destiny or divine providence, and you don't refer to religion to define or justify your decsions. If all you do is pray when you're stressed, who cares? If a man thinks 'I wish blah blah blah', does that mean he expects the wish to come true, or that he's expressing an simple emotion? I use Christian modes of speech - and I'm probably as much an atheist as you could imagine.

[dworkin]

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

The wondering what to do on a sunday was particuarly rough.

Do I sleep in?
Do I play Civ II till my brain implodes?
Do I read a book?
Go for a walk?

The complete lack of embarrassment when some fundie nutjob badmouths your beliefs was hard to bear too.

What to spend donation money on? Eh?

Becoming an atheist was like losing a wieght shackled to my foot I never knew I had.

The discomfort you feel is because most people are unacustomed to freedom. Use it wisely.

[mr friendly guy]

KAN, if you don't believe in deities existing you are an atheist. Contrary to the terms of "fundamentalist atheist", once you disbelief something, you can't be good or bad at it. You just don't believe. So you aren't a good or bad atheist in that sense, you just are.

I was pretty sure I always had the I couldn't give a shit attitude whether God exists or not for my early years. Later on in high school I was pretty sure I didn't like religion mainly because of their intolerant attitudes towards other religions, and not so much because their belief regarding the existence of deities was itself irrational.

At the end of high school I was pretty much set in my ways that religious morality wasn't the way to go after seeing Christian mocking buddhists in my school. Fortunately no one knew my religious inclinations, they just knew I was a sci fi fan.

At university a few things finally clicked for me and made me realise I was an atheist.

1) a friend becoming depressed because "he wouldn't get to go to Heaven". He later converted and became "saved" and is now a homophobe even though he felt they were hard done by Christians in high school.

2) another atheist left a photocopy of an article titled "interview with the atheist"

3) reading bullshit sprouted in my local newspaper, which convinced me that fundies do not subscribe to a live and let live philosophy, so it was time for me to change my political correct out look from "you have your beliefs, I have mine", to "your beliefs are irrational, and if you insist of forcing them on others, you will be challenged".

Personally I don't find it very hard to not believe in God, because if there is no evidence, why should I believe?

[Vicious]

Having been raised by Atheist parents, I never went through a religious indoctrination, which I am thankful for. I did go through a period when I believed in some form of higher power, but even that faded and I'm a diehard Atheist now. For the polite religious people who don't force their beliefs on my, I have a "live and let live" policy. I don't try to talk them out of their faith, because they don't try to convert me. For the fundi morons who try to bash their faith into me, I have only one thing to say... .

As to saying things like "Goddamn it" and "Oh God", the second one I use when I can't say "shit" or "fuck" due to the people I'm with, the other is just a goddamned expression...

[aten_vs_ra]

I haven't been to church since I was five years old, and most studying I did on my own. I went to a Catholic school, but they were very wishy-washy about their beliefs and didn't try to force anything down my throat. When I got into high school, I found this site, and started reading about the philosophy of science versus religion. The only hard part has been dealing with oblivion after death, but I don't really care anymore.

[salm]

ey, KAN, it sounds like you´re an atheist who´s asking if he wants to be an atheist.
if you don´t believe, you are an atheist, if you do you´re not. what you want is irrelevant, though.

[Justforfun000]

DARTH WONG wrote:

After this, she went on an exploration mission, looking at other religions. But after a while, she confided to me that all of the other religions were stupid too; every one of them had some absolute goofball belief that you could only take seriously if you were indoctrinated with it and stopped thinking critically. So she decided that it was better to have some kind of "spiritualism" than an actual religion. That's technically atheism, although most people have exaggerated the definition of atheism so they would not classify it as such.

Mike, I'm particularly interested what's the story with her parents. Have they in any way been "enlightened" or is trying to discuss religion with them a totally taboo concept? You would think Rebecca would naturally attempt to reach them because of her own de-conversion. Not to mention with your kids being in the middle, I can make a damn good bet you don't allow her parents to indoctrinate them.

So what's the current status with them. It must be interesting...

[Darth Wong]

Mike, I'm particularly interested what's the story with her parents. Have they in any way been "enlightened" or is trying to discuss religion with them a totally taboo concept?

We never talk about it. She has one relative who's a fundie preacher, and he never says a word about religion to me even though he rants continuously about religion to everyone else. I think he knows I'll carve up his bullshit arguments like so much luncheon meat.

You would think Rebecca would naturally attempt to reach them because of her own de-conversion. Not to mention with your kids being in the middle, I can make a damn good bet you don't allow her parents to indoctrinate them.

You probably don't realize that they live roughly 400 kilometres away. Their beliefs are simply not an issue of concern to us; we see them only on holidays, and they certainly have no power to interfere in our daily affairs.

[Justforfun000]

We never talk about it. She has one relative who's a fundie preacher, and he never says a word about religion to me even though he rants continuously about religion to everyone else. I think he knows I'll carve up his bullshit arguments like so much luncheon meat.

Very likely. He also probably looks at you as an unrepentant, hopeless heathen anyhow.

You probably don't realize that they live roughly 400 kilometres away. Their beliefs are simply not an issue of concern to us; we see them only on holidays, and they certainly have no power to interfere in our daily affairs.

I did remember they were in Kitchener or something,...but I thought you still might see them a bit more often. So when you pop over for a weekend visit, they basically keep off the subject then. Probably for the best. Has Rebecca told them that she has rejected religion based on her growing education?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Well, there are people uncontaminated and being raised as atheist.

But what about people who have been raised with religion? What kind of difficulties you had when switching, and how did you overcome it?

As for myself, the most difficult part is overcoming the human need to worship something bigger than us. Funny, I just can't stop praying, and sometimes swearing to the Guy Above when things get difficult. Old habits die hard (especially when you have been living it for almost 30 years).

Care to share some tips?

I've had reason to be oddly introspective on the subject of religion and my own atheism recently. And I found that I was raised to be ambiguous about religion. My family wasn't strongly religious . . . my father wasn't a fan of organized religion, and my mother was Anglican, though she thought us kids should have the freedom to choose our own faith (something, I rather suspect she believes was a mistake.) So the religion meme never really took hold. However, I was exposed to the natural sciences through my own voracious appetite for reading (Given the choice at the library, I would inerringly seek out the books on astronomy, and on animals, or on technology. And my tastes in fiction were Isaac Asimov and Robert A. Heinlein, and Harry Harrison.)

Now, when I was older, my father, my brother, and I went to the local church on Sundays, since my brother was an active Boy Scout, and being a good Christian is one of the unspoken pillars of Scouting. Though, honestly, I tagged along because my father would always take us out to breakfast after services. Even then, I was fairly ambiguous about the whole idea of a supreme God and people who died and were resurrected . . . though, I was ignorant enough to pick up and see something in modern mystical woo-woo (UFOs and space aliens, psi powers, and other BS that came about from listening to the Art Bell show late at night.)

Late in high school, I took a course on the Bible as literature, which required me to read the entire Bible from cover-to-cover and look at it from the literary standpoint, and write essays on it. As this was during my senior year, and I was taking the class as my 12th year English course, I was required to write a research paper. My topic was an analysis of how Christianity and science interacted (read: clashed) throughout history. At this time, I was, at best, an agnostic, or maybe even a Deist.

And then, starting into college, and getting into debates on life in the cosmos, I came to the conclusion that while life was possible, and probably plentiful, it would be almost impossible for it to have come and visited in the way that the New Agers think it does. So that superstition fell by the wayside, as well as the rest of that pseudoscientific poppycock.

While I was cutting my teeth debunking UFO claims, I ran into people who visited those boards who maintained that 'alien visitations' were angels, or demons, or that Earth was special because God created it and sent Jesus to die for our sins, and anybody who disagreed would be prayed for, or would burn for all eternity. So I found myself applying what I knew of cosmology and science to debunking the fundies as well. At this time, I also started lurking at and posting on ASVS where flaming people for stupidity was an artform and proving one's point through careful analysis of the evidence was mandatory.

By then, I'd come to firmly deciding that God was an extraneous term, which didn't fit in anywhere in a rational view of a universe governed by simple, naturalistic principles. So too did God fall by the wayside.

What is the point of all this, one might wonder? Religion isn't something one finds on their own. It is something that someone has to be indoctrinated into, to give the purveyors of faith time to program its necessity into your brain, to coopt your instinctive desire to seek out an authority figure to top your social hierarchy to serve religion by inserting the abstract concept of a god into that top slot. A person with the capability to reason, a firm grounding in scientific principles and critical thinking, and little or no religious indoctrination will find a naturalistic view of the universe and will find his place in society through humanism.