Venator hangar gun footage

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2005-03-19 02:56pm

In one of the leaked ROTS kid book scans it describes the Invisible Hand to have a "super thick hull". Yeah it doesn't mean much but if they push that point in a kid's book I think they mean the ships are pretty tough. If armour didn't impede their own weaponry at least a bit, it would be pointless.

ImperialBishop · Post by **ImperialBishop** » 2005-03-19 04:54pm

Excuse the newbie, but is it possible they're firing some kind of projectile in addition to the 'lasers?' Hence the recoil? Would an actual penetration of armor coupled with an explosion do more damage to personnel inside the ship (do to depressurization, etc.)?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-19 04:57pm

well Turbolaser have recoil (the big DS guns in ANH and SPHA-T in AOTC).

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-03-20 11:20am

It's been confirmed that the manned guns seen in the trailer are "Mass Drivers" firing rounds, not turbolasers.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-03-20 02:04pm

The Original Nex wrote:It's been confirmed that the manned guns seen in the trailer are "Mass Drivers" firing rounds, not turbolasers.

Confirmed where?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2005-03-20 02:25pm

The beam appears to be originating from a small turret-like shape in the hangar on the right side. There's a corresponding shape on the left side, suggesting that whatever the cannon is, there are two of them in the hangar (and it could be a SPHA-T from the shape...not saying it is, just that the possibility is not precluded).

Also interesting is that the beam appears to strike near the tower on the left side of the ship (the tower's visible when the ship lurches), yet the first visible explosion comes out the rear of the ship.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-03-20 04:28pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:It's been confirmed that the manned guns seen in the trailer are "Mass Drivers" firing rounds, not turbolasers.
Confirmed where?

Leaked pages from the RotS VD.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-03-21 04:04pm

The Original Nex wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:It's been confirmed that the manned guns seen in the trailer are "Mass Drivers" firing rounds, not turbolasers.
Confirmed where?
Leaked pages from the RotS VD.

Haven't seen em. I hope there isn't a leak somewhere that shows up in my pms...

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-03-21 05:11pm

The Silence and I wrote: You missed my point I think.
If a shield is on the verge of collapse, what are the odds it will have exactly enough reserve to absorb the vast majority of one last shot before failing?

Again, it depends on the vessel. And in this case, ,it also depends upon how large the heat sink capacity is (and how full it is) and what the rate at which the heat sink gets rid of energy. For the most part there is almost no "bleed through" of energy that I am aware of. You have to overload the shields before the energy can damage the hull.

Are battles pre-planned (don't say yes )? I suspect you find the odds higher than I do, simply because you think the armor will stop largish fractions of TT level energies--a belief I do not share I will point out now. Perhaps this is the confusion?

No, you're generalizing "shields and armor" to mean "any kind of shields or armor" whereas I am being rather specific. Not all ships are going to be shielded OR armored the same way. No more than WW2 battleships, cruisers, or battlecruisers were armored the same way.

I am of the belief that if you put GT level energies into a relatively small volumn the intensities that result will be too much for even the thermal limit of ISD grade armor, and damage will result.
Perhaps. This requires knowing the thermal capabilities of the armor in more detail than we generally know. And even assuming there is, its quite possible the hole would be so tiny as to make the damage inflicted minimal.

And there ARE armors (aside from quantum-crystalline armor) that can withstand turbolaser fire. Star's End had such armor.

Intensity and total energy are most of what is relevant to an energy weapon; achieve a certain intensity and you can damage any material the next question is do you have enough energy/power to cause significant damage.
Sure you can damage it. But this says nothing about the extent of the damage involved. Making a very long but narrow channel in armor is not neccesarily going to do any real damage (unless you're trying to slice the ship in half or something.)

By the way, you're STILL generalizing. Knock it off unless you have some more concrete numbers to back it up.

Remember in ANH when (I think it was two) starfighters attack and destroy a gun tower? Those towers are supposedly armored with combat grade material.
What sort of combat? Fighter grade combat? Vehicle combat? Capital ship combat? Even assuming its warship-grade armor, how thick is it? There are examples where an TLs can punch through 20 meters of one kind of Durasteel in one shot, whereas 15cm thickness of another grade can withstand TWO such blasts. Again, you're over-generalizing.

And how do you know its a gun tower?

The fighter's weapons proved able to damage that material and destroy the tower. The energy intesity of X-Wing cannons is not known, but with a limited (single digit KT) energy behind each shot the weapons were able to penetrate a light covering of armor.
Too vague to be useful, and you're neglecting the obvious fact there were subsidiary explosions (a fact noted in the novel, yet again.)

Making a small leap I assume the larger weapons can achieve at least equivalent intensities and obviously much higher energies. Such weapons should be able to penetrate orders of magnitude more material (thickness) than starfighter weapons, right?
Only if you assume every single bit of armor has exactly the same properties.

It won't be a clean relation because of ablating material getting in the way and more blast effects etc. but I am trying to say if a starfighter can pierce 5cm of combat grade armor (random number) then a multi TT weapon with the same (if not greater) intensities should be able to penetrate A LOT MORE.
Yes, assuming a similar grade of quality. Obviously does not apply to all examples of armor, since you clearly lack knowledge of the specific "qualities" of armor involved. (and you're still neglecting the fact that not all sections of a ship are going to be armored equally. )

Hence why I think even a small fraction of such a multi TT weapon should pierce the hull and cause havok inside.
Read above. I'm getting tired of repeating the obvious to you.

All true, amounts of armor will vary, but not by 10-100-1000-10,000 times, except perhaps the difference between a window and a reinforce area of hull.
Again, how do you know this for sure? We know nothing of the armor scheme of Imperial warships in the sorts of detail that you are speculating.

Get the right intensities behind it and you will penetrate if you have the energy to back it up, and with GT< energies likely from a leaked shot I do think a hull breach would occur.
Irrelevant speculation.

This is a good point I think, as there is no reason a bolt would loose focus AFTER entering the ship, unless it was timed to (for clarification, and this is not something I want to debat here, I hold with the belief that many turbolaser bolts are infact projectiles) or something.
That's only going to complicate things then if they're projectiles, since momentum is a HUGE factor where projectiles are concerned. (of course, at these energy levels, its going to be a factor regardless...)

If part of the station shook--cause is irrelevant--then either local materials flexed or the entire damn station shook too. I wanted to say local materials flexed, but NO! That can't be! So we are left with an impossibility.
"Cause is irrelevant?" Based on what? I'd say determining the source for the explosions is quite relevant.

And what the fuck is "flex" supposed to mean? Did we suddenly switch to discussion of high-momentum impacts somehow?

That does not help much, but is a lower limit.
Yes, and its more substantial than what you're providing.

I only bring it up because I dispise the EU, I will not contend it though.
I dont' fucking care fi you despise it. You don't get to ignore it. We're not in Darkstarland.

Now, I don't wish to open THAT can of worms, but I seriously doubt anyone there was packing more than KT grade, and I would think far, far less.

All I am saying is I think it is fair to say a few GT at a high intensity will cause significant damage to the hull (unless it cleanly penetrates). I think you are far more enamored of the materials in SW than I am and I have no furthur wish to debate this. If you want my concession you have it, but don't assume you have convinced me

You're speculating and generalizing based on a few assumptions and a very small and inconclusive sample of evidence.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-21 05:25pm

FYI, this appears to be similar to the object that was destroyed:

+http://jtrun.mine.nu/cc/fox/Battle.JPG

I'm not sure about its function.

EDIT: More specifically, this is similar to the structure destroyed before the Eta-2s flew through the fireball, towards the start of the clip.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-03-23 11:49pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Commander: "Company halt! Present arms! Target the donut! Fire! Beware fore! Fire! I say, clonetroopers in a space battle? This is most invigorating?" *being British, like all Republic/Imperial navy personal, he sips his tea as a Gungan in a loincloth carries his personal hunting blaster behind him*
Poncy-the-Gungan: "Yes, massah! Messa think so to!"

*Poncy polishing the Commander's armor.*

Commander: Make it shine, Gungandin.