Old Republic military strength

Star Empire · Post by **Star Empire** » 2005-03-20 01:56am

I'm trying to write my own crossover story and am little confused about the state of the military in the Old Republic. Prior to the Military Creation Act, what did the Republic have? Maybe not an offical army, but I assume they had something. About how large is the military in terms of ships at the end of Episode II and the end of Episode III. Any answers would be very helpful. Thank you. Sorry if this has been asked, I tried do a search, but couldn't find anything.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-03-20 03:16am

I think member planets and organizations had their own armed forces, most likely for defense, colony control and anti-piracy patrols. Aldeeran apparently had a space fleet and military. I'm not sure, but I think Naboo had a small defense force. The Trade Federation, of course had a military too.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-03-20 03:55am

The only military forces I can think of are custom- and policevessels. They must have something to protect the space lanes (unless they fall under the jurisdiction of the nearest star systems of course).

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-03-20 04:08am

This raises an interesting question... if planets had their own defense forces not controlled by the Old Republic, who owned the ships that made up Coruscant 's defense? The effective center of the galaxy had to have had some warships, who controlled them? The OR? Was Coruscant a member world of the OR like any other?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-20 04:27am

The Old Republic in the PT era had no standing military whatsoever. Only security forces belonging to individual planets.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2005-03-20 04:34am

Sort of like the European Union.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-03-20 04:34am

So did the OR administrate the Coruscant defense force, or did it have some planetary government on the side?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-20 07:51am

Anthony Daniels and Ahmed Best cameo´d in AOTC as con-men dressed in stolen military uniforms. I believe they belonged to either a Navy or a Coruscant defence force (not sure).

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-03-20 11:16am

Prior to the MCA, the "Republic Navy" was under the comtrol of the Judicials, who were more or less a Galactic Police Force, and had nothing bigger than Corvettes and Frigates AFAIK.

Important sectors would have their own sector fleets made up of ships that got nearly as large as Executor, but these ships had very short Hyperdrive ranges, and weren't under the Republic's control.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-03-20 12:28pm

The Original Nex wrote:Prior to the MCA, the "Republic Navy" was under the comtrol of the Judicials, who were more or less a Galactic Police Force, and had nothing bigger than Corvettes and Frigates AFAIK.

Important sectors would have their own sector fleets made up of ships that got nearly as large as Executor, but these ships had very short Hyperdrive ranges, and weren't under the Republic's control.

No. The Galactic Naval Corps is seperate from the Judicals, although they work closely together and support each other.

They also have the Dreadnaught, which the EU claims to be the largest vessel in naval service until the Victory class stardestroyer, despite the presence of the Invincible "battle-wagon."

The Old Republic in the PT era had no standing military whatsoever. Only security forces belonging to individual planets.

Not exactly....... The Judicals clearly are a paramilitary unit. They had access to vehicles in one of the novels and are clearly more than just police-beats.

This raises an interesting question... if planets had their own defense forces not controlled by the Old Republic, who owned the ships that made up Coruscant 's defense? The effective center of the galaxy had to have had some warships, who controlled them? The OR? Was Coruscant a member world of the OR like any other?

Probably the Chancellor, which the novelisation where they set up the Neimodian takeover of the Federation established was some form of political dynastic rule.

Also, let's not forget the standing sector fleet, which has as its backbone Dreadnaughts as well as infantry at the very least. Furthermore, Shatterpoint also establishes that planetary militias and these forces were expanded to help protect the Republic.

Star Empire · Post by **Star Empire** » 2005-03-20 03:15pm

Thanks everyone, this has helped out a lot. So if I understood everything right, before the MCA, the Republic did have the Judicials and the Galactic Naval Corps, but these were overall were much smaller compared to the sector fleets and other private armies (Trade Federation). The sector fleets then could be expanded to help the whole Republic.

Also, let's not forget the standing sector fleet, which has as its backbone Dreadnaughts as well as infantry at the very least. Furthermore, Shatterpoint also establishes that planetary militias and these forces were expanded to help protect the Republic.

Was this voluntarily, or compulsive? Did Palpatine have the ability to centralize the various local armies in the same way the president can federalize the Nation Guard? Thanks again.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-20 04:26pm

Dreadnoughts are the largest vessels the Republic itself has at its disposal. Private and sector/systemic militaries have other, more powerful vessels though, such as Kuat's mighty corporate and sector navies.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-03-20 10:49pm

Star Empire wrote:Thanks everyone, this has helped out a lot. So if I understood everything right, before the MCA, the Republic did have the Judicials and the Galactic Naval Corps, but these were overall were much smaller compared to the sector fleets and other private armies (Trade Federation). The sector fleets then could be expanded to help the whole Republic.

Compared to the sector fleets and private defence forces of members in total or to its component pieces? If its the former, definitely yes, if its the later, we don't know.

Was this voluntarily, or compulsive? Did Palpatine have the ability to centralize the various local armies in the same way the president can federalize the Nation Guard? Thanks again.

The way the text played out seemed to suggest that it was part of the powers granted to the Republic by the MCA.

Dreadnoughts are the largest vessels the Republic itself has at its disposal. Private and sector/systemic militaries have other, more powerful vessels though, such as Kuat's mighty corporate and sector navies.

Ahem. Invinicble "battle wagons", 3km long. Considering the fact that Dreadnaughts are only single squadron carriers, there should have been something else to carry the Z-95 Headhunter.

Ultimately, one should look to the Journal of Whillis entry, which stated that the Republic was strong enough to resist any external attack. While likely a propganda statement, it should have some reality in basis.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-21 12:22am

PainRack wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Dreadnoughts are the largest vessels the Republic itself has at its disposal. Private and sector/systemic militaries have other, more powerful vessels though, such as Kuat's mighty corporate and sector navies.
Ahem. Invinicble "battle wagons", 3km long.

The Invincible-class is only mentioned once, IIRC, and nothing is ever said about them having been used by the Republic.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-03-21 06:29am

Galvatron wrote: The Invincible-class is only mentioned once, IIRC, and nothing is ever said about them having been used by the Republic.

It was mentioned to have been obselete material sold to the Corporate Sector by the GE.

Frankly, I tend towards the view that the EU assertion that the ISD is the most common large vessel of the GE, the VSD in the Clone Wars and Dreadnaught in the OR as these were the largest, production lots of vessels in the universe, produced in such overwhelming numbers as to outfit significant number of sector forces as standardisation. Any larger vessels like the Shockwave and etc etc are produced in limited production runs and aren't part of the standardisation of the fleet programmes.

So, the Dreadnaught is the largest vessel in Republic service....... that is, the largest standardised vessel in service. However, individual sector fleets may well have the resources to acquire and procure more powerful vessels, ignoring the provincal forces they could hope to draw upon.

Also, something should be brought up. Naboo was the capital of the sector, but yet, the sector forces assigned made no attempt to break the TF blockade.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-21 11:34am

Largest standardized...blah blah insert more buzzwords and qualifiers blah blah.

Look, it wasn't the biggest ship. We don't really have any evidence about relative predominance or production runs. Most of that post is conjectural "I feel" shit with all kinds of conditional qualifiers and buzz words. Its ok to say the strict interpretation of the EU is wrong by counterexample but we don't really know the actual proportions and story.

Insufficient evidence for a meaningful conclusion. We should've been delivering that verdict with a lot of these nitpicky issues without any hard data for a long time now.

EDIT: If you want to know what most worlds had available to call-up, check the fleet roused by Senator Tarkin in The Stark Hyperspace War. Even the Dreadnought-class heavy cruiser seems to be less prevelent in retrospect than implied by the EU.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-21 11:37am

PainRack wrote:Ahem. Invinicble "battle wagons", 3km long.

No evidence in predominant use in OR, could've been mothballed. Again you resort to conjecture and presenting it with actual data.

And besides, they're about as well armed as a Dreadnought or worse. And in the English version they're not called battlewagons.

The fact is that the Invincible is hardly representative of the massive warships most likely commissioned by Kuat and others such as the Tagge Company - examples of which include massive Marvel battlecruisers.

Considering the fact that Dreadnaughts are only single squadron carriers, there should have been something else to carry the Z-95 Headhunter.

PainRack wrote:Ultimately, one should look to the Journal of Whillis entry, which stated that the Republic was strong enough to resist any external attack. While likely a propganda statement, it should have some reality in basis.

No reason it should be a propoganda statement. I doubt the Journal of the Whills was written by Republic patriots.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-03-21 01:12pm

Well, we know they had armed forces during the KOTR-era. They were also colored blind, apparently.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-03-21 11:48pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Largest standardized...blah blah insert more buzzwords and qualifiers blah blah.

Look, it wasn't the biggest ship. We don't really have any evidence about relative predominance or production runs. Most of that post is conjectural "I feel" shit with all kinds of conditional qualifiers and buzz words. Its ok to say the strict interpretation of the EU is wrong by counterexample but we don't really know the actual proportions and story.

Insufficient evidence for a meaningful conclusion. We should've been delivering that verdict with a lot of these nitpicky issues without any hard data for a long time now.

The EGWVT as well as various novels has been asserting that the Dreadnaught heavy cruiser is the largest vessel available to the Old Republic for quite some time. That's absurd when we know that Venators exist now, and absurd back then when we know of the existence of Invinicible and the unlikelihood of vessels as large as the ISD, Executor and the Death Star being developed in a quantam leap of ability just a few decades later.

Is it conjecture? Yes. But the whole idea is to tie up EU data with a consistent, coherent reality of the SWU. Ergo, conjecture must be made up to rationalise away why certain statements are made the way they are.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-03-22 12:05am

PainRack wrote:
Galvatron wrote:The Invincible-class is only mentioned once, IIRC, and nothing is ever said about them having been used by the Republic.
It was mentioned to have been obselete material sold to the Corporate Sector by the GE.

Where was this mentioned?

The one time I ever saw the Invincible-class mentioned at all was in this passage from Han Solo at Star's End...

Moving up hard astern the barge was a dreadnought, one of the military's old Invincible Class capital ships -- over two kilometres long, bristling with gun turrets, missile tubes, tractor-beam projectors, and deflector shields, armoured like a protosteel mountain. The dreadnought hailed them with the demand that the barge halt, and at the same time identified herself: the Shannador's Revenge.

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Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-22 09:29am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: No reason it should be a propoganda statement. I doubt the Journal of the Whills was written by Republic patriots.

Quite so. The External forces arrayed against the Republic aren't that great. Imainge the force the Republic could bring to bear in a few months if it were attacked by say, the Hapans. The reason that blockade in TPM wasn't crushed was because the Neiomidians were also in the Republic. An external threat wouldn't be able to stall the republic in the same manner.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-03-22 11:37am

Clearly, the Old Republic forgot the lessons it learned, when it had not one but TWO wars with the Sith (Well, not the TRUE Sith) and one with the Mandalorians in the space of a few decades. Yes, there was a long period in between, but gyah, forgive me for expecting some preparation.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-22 11:54am

Preperation against?