Gay and Lesbian Marriage

xtashinatorx · Post by **xtashinatorx** » 2005-03-22 09:25pm

I'm doing my senior thesis on gay and lesbian marriges, and whether they are a threat to the "American way of life." If you guys could give me some insight or opinions, I'd really appreciate it. At this point I'm conducting an unofficial survey, type thing.
In my personal opinion, I believe it is rediculous to even think that marriage and love should be limitied to one man and one woman. It is not going to ruin the sanctity of the institution to allow two men, or two women to have a peice of paper saying they belong to eachother.

Avalon616 · Post by **Avalon616** » 2005-03-22 09:48pm

To start, marriage's definition by my anthropology's text is "A culturally sanctioned union between two or more people that establishes certain rights and obligations between the people, between them and their children, aand between them and their in-laws. Such marriage rights and obligations most often include, but are not limited to, sex, labor, property, child rearing, exchange, and status." (Haviland 2005).
That said, looking historically and anthropologically, same sex marriages are not new, and are practiced world wide, along with "regular" marriages. In many cultures, same sex activities are looked on casually, and "in some cultures certain prescribed male-to-male sexual acts are part of male initiation rites". Studies have shown homosexual relations even among animals; for example in primates, the Bonobos engage in large amounts of homosexual sex.

I'm no anthropologist though, and that's just AN 101 evidence. If you look at it from a religious perspective, marriage still is not a Christian same sex practice. There was no Christian sacrement of marriage until the 16th century. Marriage was banned for Christians, St. Paul (which much of Christianity is based on) hate women and marriage, and St. Augustine said marriage was a sin. The word marriage itself is derived from the Latin word maritare, which was "union under the auspices of the Goddess Aphrodite-Mari"(Walker 1983). And we all know the Romans hated gay sex...

I can find no real basis for the banning of homosexual sex in history, biology, or anything else, but I'd love to hear something valid...

[/rant]

Rant Sources:
Haviland, WilliamA., Harald E.L. Prins, Dana Walrath,and Bunny McBride Wadsworth. Cultural Anthropology; The Human Challenge. 11th ed. Thompson Learning, Inc. 2005

Walker, Barbara g. The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets. San Fransisco: Harper Collins, 1983.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-03-22 09:51pm

legally, let it all hang out . 14th amendment says everyone gets the same legal rights, and entering contracts is good to go.

your 18, marry who you wish. same gender, different gender, combination thereof. its all good.

I like wicked pilot's comment from this thread, a while back:

Quite simple: a marriage would have zero legal standing. One could, if they so desired, grant their spouse power of attorny, next-of-kin, common property, and all the other legal rights now inherent to marriage, but getting married would mean exactly nothing to civil courts.

Marriages would then be for whomever wanted to have them, under whatever circumstances they desired, and nobody would be forced by law to recognize marriages of other people.

Thus those who want marriage to be sancrosanct have their wish, they can reject the marriages of anyone they wish. On the other hand those who want to give their partners legal rights will be free to do so on whatever basis they want. There is absolutely no reason why all the legal aspects of marriage cannot be individualized (and virtually all of them already are) and be doled out however consenting adults wish.

Right now the fundies scream that they are being forced to recognize a marriage that they view as a personal insult. Fine, once you get the government out of the marriage business they don't have to recognize it. They do however have to respect an individual's wish to have say make his partner his next-of-kin (and thus get hospital visitation rights) or his wish to have his partner get power of medical attorny. They would also be forced to respect an individual if he wants his doctor to have power of medical attorny, or his brother to have power of fiscal attorny.

LeftWingExtremist · Post by **LeftWingExtremist** » 2005-03-22 10:27pm

here, here

i see no reason not to allow marriage to "gay" people.

end of discussion

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-03-22 10:42pm

I see no actual reason to have different genders as a requirement for marriage. In and of itself, it just looks and sounds stupid.

Tradition isn't a good enough excuse, much like with apartheid or some other prejudice/discrimination. The only anti gay marriage sentiment I've seen other than christians/muslims find it against their religious beliefs is that some people just don't like gays and are therefore apathetic to their equal rights issues.

Marriage isn't limited to christians, so they can go fuck themselves if they think they get to legislate what it is and isn't and everyone else has to tow their line.

I don't think there's a sane reason to be against gay marriage.

As for being a threat to the american way of life, I hardly see how. Delusion is a way of life for the people that don't like it anyway, they can just pretend it doesn't exist like they do evolution or priesthood paedophilia.

Marriage was and always will be what the people involved make of it, in every case. The only people to blame for loss of sanctity will be the people that don't take their vows seriously.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2005-03-22 11:12pm

Gays are people too. Isn't marriage also deemed a Universal Human Right?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-22 11:19pm

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:Gays are people too. Isn't marriage also deemed a Universal Human Right?

According to the fundies, their not really people, their sinners. Unrepentent sinners who refuse to follow Gods laws, therefore they are undeserving of the rights that good sky-pixie fearing brain dead morons enjoy.

Like Darth Wong said, Chrisitanity is all about degrading those that refuse to follow their beliefs. And making yourself feel good by belittling those who are different.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-03-22 11:24pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:I like wicked pilot's comment from this thread, a while back:

What thread are you talking about? I don't recall posting any gems of wisdom concerning gay marriage before. Except for maybe that one time where I pointed out Osama bin Laden opposes gay marriage, but that should be obvious.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-03-22 11:35pm

Gay marriage is like fixing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with only peanut butter on both sides or only jelly on both sides. Traditionally peanut butter and jelly sandwiches featured both peanut butter and jelly, and most people still fix theirs in that way, but there is nothing inherently wrong with just peanut butter or just jelly. It's still a sandwich after all is it not? I tell you what; I'll fix my sandwiches my way, you put whatever the hell you want on yours, and that will be that. If you respect my choice in sandwiches I will return the favor by not trying to shove them down your throat. After all I'm hungry damnit, someone pass the milk.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2005-03-22 11:41pm

Wicket Pilot, that was bloody brilliant.

My two cents? Anyone who opposes it should have something much more important to do.

Avalon616 · Post by **Avalon616** » 2005-03-23 12:11am

Wicked Pilot wrote:Gay marriage is like fixing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with only peanut butter on both sides or only jelly on both sides. Traditionally peanut butter and jelly sandwiches featured both peanut butter and jelly, and most people still fix theirs in that way, but there is nothing inherently wrong with just peanut butter or just jelly. It's still a sandwich after all is it not? I tell you what; I'll fix my sandwiches my way, you put whatever the hell you want on yours, and that will be that. If you respect my choice in sandwiches I will return the favor by not trying to shove them down your throat. After all I'm hungry damnit, someone pass the milk.

Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-03-23 12:28am

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:I like wicked pilot's comment from this thread, a while back:
What thread are you talking about? I don't recall posting any gems of wisdom concerning gay marriage before. Except for maybe that one time where I pointed out Osama bin Laden opposes gay marriage, but that should be obvious.

marriage, more so.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-23 12:49am

Honestly, I never could see why it shouldn't be legal. It seems like such a simple damned issue to me, but then I never cared what anybody was sticking into anybody's what, so long as they were all adults and agreed to have tab A go into slot B.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-03-23 01:41am

Avalon616 wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:Gay marriage is like fixing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with only peanut butter on both sides or only jelly on both sides. Traditionally peanut butter and jelly sandwiches featured both peanut butter and jelly, and most people still fix theirs in that way, but there is nothing inherently wrong with just peanut butter or just jelly. It's still a sandwich after all is it not? I tell you what; I'll fix my sandwiches my way, you put whatever the hell you want on yours, and that will be that. If you respect my choice in sandwiches I will return the favor by not trying to shove them down your throat. After all I'm hungry damnit, someone pass the milk.
Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...

OMG! j00 f4gg0t!!!11111

And no, I have nothing against gay marriage. I can see how some religious folk can have a problem with it, but I'm not religious.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Avalon616 · Post by **Avalon616** » 2005-03-23 01:44am

fgalkin wrote:
Avalon616 wrote:
Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...
OMG! j00 f4gg0t!!!11111

Damn straight! I loooove the ladies!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 02:51am

xtashinatorx wrote:I'm doing my senior thesis on gay and lesbian marriges, and whether they are a threat to the "American way of life."

First, you must define "the American way of life". Many definitions exist, and you could probably expend a fair bit of verbiage on this. Then, you must try to project what effect gay marriages would have on this system.

The only people who would be directly affected by the legal recognition of gay marriage would be gays themselves; this is an indisputable fact. From this fact, you can logically deduce that the vast majority of Americans (ie- all straight people) will experience no direct change to their lifestyles at all. Therefore, it is obvious that the "American way of life" will not be significantly impacted by gay marriage.

Interesting note: if one defines marriage as an integral part of "the American way of life", then the only real change to American way of life would be that gays are allowed to participate in it.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-03-23 02:56am

Avalon616 wrote:
fgalkin wrote:
Avalon616 wrote:
Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...
OMG! j00 f4gg0t!!!11111

Damn straight! I loooove the ladies!

you're "damn straight" and you also love the ladies? You've just contradicted yourself.

have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-03-23 03:25am

or shes bi =p

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-03-23 07:40am

I believe any legislation to actually reduce the rights of any citizen is amoral and anti-American. All of those states with laws against gay marriage have essentially reduced a sizable segment of the population to second-class citizens. There is no logical nor justifiable reason whatsoever to deny homosexuals the right to marry. And no, "because God says so" is not a reason. Not in this nation - or so I believe.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2005-03-23 07:49am

Pick wrote:Wicket Pilot, that was bloody brilliant.

My two cents? Anyone who opposes it should have something much more important to do.

so true. they get worked up about something and waste time on it which is non of their business at all. can´t they do something more important? like suck christs dick or something?

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2005-03-23 09:50am

I fail to see how Gay Marriage threatens anyones way of life. Like Mike said, there are many different definitions to the "American way of life", indeed everyone may have their own individual definition, some with slight variations, some with large ones. Someones definition maybe be to work all week and drink beer and watch american football on a sunday, someone elses might be that of the American Dream in Of Mice And Men.
My point being that having Larry and Barry, or Lucy and Beautrix get married is not going to stop american football being shown on TV, or make your log cabin colapse, or make you sunday school students become flag burners, or whatever.

The only threat entailed with Gay Marriage, is threat of people wasting their time fighting it when it has nothing to do with them and won't effect them in the slightest.

Marksist · Post by **Marksist** » 2005-03-23 10:16am

Who were the two who voted no?

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2005-03-23 10:32am

As a christain, my religion tells me to say no to gay marriage. But I disagree. I dont think that letting homosexuals marry will affect me at all. And I believe that it is wrong to deny something to someone simply because you dont like them. Basicly, if what homosexuals are doing is sin. Well, that is between them and God. Who am I to judge? I say let them marry.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-03-23 11:20am

If you're going to tell 30 million taxpaying Americans they're second class citizens, you need a better reason than "My imaginary friend in the sky says so." Nobody's been able to provide one.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-23 11:31am

Agent Fisher wrote:As a christain, my religion tells me to say no to gay marriage. But I disagree. I dont think that letting homosexuals marry will affect me at all. And I believe that it is wrong to deny something to someone simply because you dont like them. Basicly, if what homosexuals are doing is sin. Well, that is between them and God. Who am I to judge? I say let them marry.

Christian fanatics seem to have forgotten that God stated that only he can pass judgement on sinners. So they can take their "witnessing" and shove it up their asses, if they can't be bothered to obey their sky fairies commands, I don't see why we should change things to suit their demands.

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