man, what happened to the Klingons?

[une]

I was watching Undiscovered Country, and I was amazed at how smart the Klingons were in that film when compared to TNG era Klingons. The Klingons in Undicovered Country seemd rational and capable of sustaining a conversation without mentioning something violent.

What happened, what caused the change?

[Shinova]

I was watching Undiscovered Country, and I was amazed at how smart the Klingons were in that film when compared to TNG era Klingons. The Klingons in Undicovered Country seemd rational and capable of sustaining a conversation without mentioning something violent.

What happened, what caused the change?

Probably cause Kirk ceased to exist.

[neoolong]

Stupidity and laziness. Why make complex characters when you can stereotype them as dumb warriors.

[Darth Yoshi]

B&B happened.

[Isolder74]

That's hard to say but it started with TNG and Lt. Worf

[Darth Wong]

Brain bug. The writers were reading too many Thor comics.

[Isolder74]

Brain bug. The writers were reading too many Thor comics.

Agreed Klingons as Viking is definentally a TNG Idea

[RedImperator]

Worf was a complex and interesting character. However, Star Trek writing dictates that all alien races are monocultural and have one single defining characteristic, exaggerated to the point of caricature. Only aliens who have spent significant time around humans can become more balanced. Thus Worf, who is aggressive, concerned with his honor, and enjoys the martial arts and primitive bladed weapons, must be a civilized version of a screaming, testosterone-soaked idiot who drops a ranged weapon to fight with knives and fights to the death over any insult to his honor.

[Typhonis 1]

They needed to make the Federations enemnies weak since they cut the balls of the Feddys

[Stormbringer]

This is probably one of the best explanations for the dumbing of the Klingons and their funny new foreheads:


God, I love SevTrek.

[Patrick Degan]

Worf was a complex and interesting character. However, Star Trek writing dictates that all alien races are monocultural and have one single defining characteristic, exaggerated to the point of caricature. Only aliens who have spent significant time around humans can become more balanced. Thus Worf, who is aggressive, concerned with his honor, and enjoys the martial arts and primitive bladed weapons, must be a civilized version of a screaming, testosterone-soaked idiot who drops a ranged weapon to fight with knives and fights to the death over any insult to his honor.

Well, Worf was never that complex a character, but he was interesting. At first, they seemed to be trying to do something with Worf, and Michael Dorn played him low-key. But as Mike observed, at one point, the writers got obsessed with the idea that the Klingons were the Space-Vikings. This despite the fact that in the first Klingon episode of TNG, the whole point of the script was that Korris' ridiculous feudal notions of warrior's honour were out of place in the modern world. In "Hide and Q" (stupid title), when Riker had the powers of the Q Community and granted Worf the gift of Klingon sex with an appropriately in-heat female, he rejected her, stating outright that she was "from a world now ALIEN to me".

They never did dumb down Worf the way the dumbed down the rest of the Klingon race (couldn't, since he was a main character, after all, so he had to have at least a two-dimensional personality), but they advanced the idiotic idea that his cultural identity was his genetic heritage, and had him trying to out-Klingon the other Klingons while the rest of them were degenerating into the Space-Vikings. Perhaps Worf was trying desperately to uphold the dignity and honour of Klingon culture by being an Ideal Role Model, since it was evident that the Klingon race had all turned into knife-wielding morons.

It was, to say the least, idiotic.

[Blaze]

i havent seen the undiscovered country in a while but isnt worf kirk lawyer in that movie?

[neoolong]

i havent seen the undiscovered country in a while but isnt worf kirk lawyer in that movie?

Supposedly he is Worf's ancestor. Same actor though.

[Isolder74]

i havent seen the undiscovered country in a while but isnt worf kirk lawyer in that movie?

Supposedly he is Worf's ancestor. Same actor though.

I think it was his grandpa

[Vympel]

"I was out saving the galaxy while your grandfather was in diapers"

[Isolder74]

"I was out saving the galaxy while your grandfather was in diapers"

That was to picard

[Stormbringer]

The best in universe explanation, I've ever heard was that of a religious and racial war. The secularists lost to the religious, racist forces. Genetic and religious cleansing ensued.

The out iniverse reason is simple. Bad writing.

[Vympel]

"I was out saving the galaxy while your grandfather was in diapers"

That was to picard

Yeah I know- but I thought it was a cool quote and it does have some bearing. After all, Picard is older than Worf.

[Guest]

The TOS-era klingons were certainly better than the TNG-era klingons. I'm surprised that there are so many TNG-era klingon fans out there though.

[Yossarian]

Laziness. It's much easier and takes less talent to create hordes of one dimensinal brainless morans then realistic caracters with minds, ideas and feelings of their own

[Next of Kin]

Alright, what could be done then to restore the credibility of the Klingon's in your eyes as credible threat? Do away with the silly Batleths, Stovolkor, and warriors wine!

[Frank Hipper]

Our first views of the "new" Klingons in TMP and STIII left a great deal to the imagination. With hindsight, they should have left them that way.

[Darth Wong]

Alright, what could be done then to restore the credibility of the Klingon's in your eyes as credible threat? Do away with the silly Batleths, Stovolkor, and warriors wine!

You cannot restore that which has been corrupted beyond repair. You can only throw away the infected mass and try to make something new.

[neoolong]

The only thing I can think of is a rebellion of younger more intelligent Klingons that see that the warrior way is stupid. They can still be warriors but understand that intelligence has as much or even more of a place on the battlefield than suicidal courage. These new Klingons can appeal to the families of the warriors who die in stupid battles and eventually get control of the government. They reform the Klingon Empire into something more complex but still expansionist. This time they are intelligent and are able to create a stable Empire that becomes a threat to everyone else.

[data_link]

The only thing I can think of is a rebellion of younger more intelligent Klingons that see that the warrior way is stupid. They can still be warriors but understand that intelligence has as much or even more of a place on the battlefield than suicidal courage. These new Klingons can appeal to the families of the warriors who die in stupid battles and eventually get control of the government. They reform the Klingon Empire into something more complex but still expansionist. This time they are intelligent and are able to create a stable Empire that becomes a threat to everyone else.

And my dog is going to jump over the moon. Oh, as long as we're contemplating impossibilities, Picard grows a set of balls.

Face it - as long as B&B are around, there aren't going to be any intelligent klingons. And after Voyager, no one else will touch the Star Trek franchise.