A very crippled DSII reaches earth's orbit

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-03-23 02:11pm

On a sunny day, Q appears before the UFP high command and says:

"Hi guys, remember when I introduced you to the Borg and all the fun we had?
Well, meet the Galactic Empire and their shiny new DSII. It will attack earth but the good news is that I temporarely disabled its shields, engines, superlaser and surface guns. However it's still fully garissoned but only their TIE fighters may leave the station (so no downright invasion of earth)
The bad news is that the DSII will be disabled for at least a month. After that I can't give any more promises. It can be another month, a year, a decade,..."

How long will it take for the Feds to do so much damage to the DSII that it can't treaten earth anymore? Or would it be less costly to not even try and just evacuate earth?
(ps. I dunno how long a DS can operate on its own but the DS garisson cannot starve to death - act of Q)

2 episodes is not a valid answer

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-03-23 02:15pm

I wonder if the Federation fleet could create a path through the DS's hull and shoot the reactor...

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-03-23 02:24pm

I'm assuming we're talking a completed DSII. In that case, I personally would immediately start packing my bags and trying to calculate a good direction to leave without alerting their TIE patrols.

If there were no TIEs around, I'd say it'd take at least several months for Starfleet to cut a large enough path for their ships to fly through (how big is a Defiant compared to the MF? There were sections in the path to the reactor where the MF almost didn't fit). With TIEs, however, they'd have to be doing their cutting while being swarmed by massive amounts of fighters.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 02:24pm

Are the TIEs armed (lasers and/or warheads)? Given that the DSII has at least ten thousand according to Saxton, couldn't that be enough to control the local space for a time? As for Starfleet being able to penetrate the surface and the underlying armor belt, no idea.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-03-23 02:25pm

CivilWarMan wrote: If there were no TIEs around, I'd say it'd take at least several months for Starfleet to cut a large enough path for their ships to fly through (how big is a Defiant compared to the MF?

Why would they do that? Just cut a path large enough to allow torpedoes to hit the reactor...

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2005-03-23 02:31pm

Robert Walper wrote:
CivilWarMan wrote: If there were no TIEs around, I'd say it'd take at least several months for Starfleet to cut a large enough path for their ships to fly through (how big is a Defiant compared to the MF?
Why would they do that? Just cut a path large enough to allow torpedoes to hit the reactor...

Considering the disparity of offensive power to definsive strength of the armor, I don't even think that is a viable option.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-03-23 02:38pm

The Cleric wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
CivilWarMan wrote: If there were no TIEs around, I'd say it'd take at least several months for Starfleet to cut a large enough path for their ships to fly through (how big is a Defiant compared to the MF?
Why would they do that? Just cut a path large enough to allow torpedoes to hit the reactor...
Considering the disparity of offensive power to definsive strength of the armor, I don't even think that is a viable option.

That's why I was wondering...

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-03-23 02:43pm

how about

1) kill all the TIE's
2) destroy all the surface guns
3) somehow disable the superlaser (like somehow blocking the shaft, ram a fat shuttle in the superlaser tunnels or something

)

The DSII wont be destroyed but it cant treaten earth either anymore

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 02:45pm

Well, since you've further neutered the DS by killing the TIEs, that still leaves the problem of boring through the surface, armor belt, and the rest of the ~450km distance to reach the main reactor.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-23 02:47pm

Robert Walper wrote:
CivilWarMan wrote: If there were no TIEs around, I'd say it'd take at least several months for Starfleet to cut a large enough path for their ships to fly through (how big is a Defiant compared to the MF?
Why would they do that? Just cut a path large enough to allow torpedoes to hit the reactor...

Either way, what pray tell would they cut it with? IF it's a completed but disabled DSII the Feds quite simply have nothing that can scratch its hull. Their only hope is it's the incomplete one from ROTJ and there already IS a path to the reactor (and that their weapons can scratch the reactor...)
All of that of course w/o TIEs. WITH TIEs, better start evacuating...

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-03-23 02:51pm

Detonating a Genesis device on the surface of the DS might be...interesting.

(how big is a Defiant compared to the MF? There were sections in the path to the reactor where the MF almost didn't fit)

How much firepower is needed to blow up the core ? Can't they just send in a few runabouts stuffed with microphotons ?

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 02:54pm

Bounty wrote:Detonating a Genesis device on the surface of the DS might be...interesting.

And from where are they going to get the Genesis device?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-03-23 02:54pm

Bounty wrote:Detonating a Genesis device on the surface of the DS might be...interesting.

pity they haven't been able to build a second one since wrath of khan.

How much firepower is needed to blow up the core ? Can't they just send in a few runabouts stuffed with microphotons ?

at least as much as generated by a proton torpedo.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2005-03-23 03:00pm

DS9 had evidence of improved Genesis devices when a scientist used a device containing proto-matter to reignite a dead star. And he was considered the best teraformer in the Federation.

Anyway, consider this. Armor is located only at certain points. I doubt the Tie hangars have quite the armor the rest of the station has. Attack the weak points to bore your way in.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-03-23 03:09pm

pity they haven't been able to build a second one since wrath of khan.

They still have protomatter, and I'd be very surprised if they simply tossed out the plans. They should at least be in some archive.

I admit that the chances of getting a working Genesis device are slim-to-none and the chances of getting it in a month are basically zero, but if - <i>if</i> - they can get one, would it work ?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-23 03:09pm

Bounty wrote:Detonating a Genesis device on the surface of the DS might be...interesting.

Yeah. If they had one.

How much firepower is needed to blow up the core ? Can't they just send in a few runabouts stuffed with microphotons ?

That, indeed, is a good question-IF this is the ROTJ DSII.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-03-23 03:12pm

Batman wrote:
Bounty wrote:Detonating a Genesis device on the surface of the DS might be...interesting.
Yeah. If they had one.

That, indeed, is a good question-IF this is the ROTJ DSII.

It a fully completed DSII (so _not_ as it is as in ROTJ)

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-03-23 03:14pm

Bounty wrote: They still have protomatter, and I'd be very surprised if they simply tossed out the plans. They should at least be in some archive.

iirc, all the research was aboard the station that was destroyed by Khan. also, simply having the basic ingredients doesn't impart the ability to create one. just because i might have access to plutonium doesn't mean i'd be able to build a nuke, for example.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-03-23 03:18pm

iirc, all the research was aboard the station that was destroyed by Khan.

Nope, Kruge had the data in STIII, weeks after the station was destroyed.

Another idea :

It's a bit extreme, but how about firing a trilithium torpedo in the Sun ? Could an unshielded DSII survive the shockwave ?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-03-23 03:21pm

Bounty wrote: Another idea :

It's a bit extreme, but how about firing a trilithium torpedo in the Sun ? Could an unshielded DSII survive the shockwave ?

What would be the point then? The shockwave would destroy everything in the system, and if the DS is going to theortically do the same thing...what's the difference?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-23 03:22pm

Bounty wrote:
iirc, all the research was aboard the station that was destroyed by Khan.
Nope, Kruge had the data in STIII, weeks after the station was destroyed.

Like hell he did. He had Kirk's promo tape and that's it.

Another idea :
It's a bit extreme, but how about firing a trilithium torpedo in the Sun ? Could an unshielded DSII survive the shockwave ?

Irrelevant, as Earth sure as hell can't. Do the Feds have those?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-03-23 03:24pm

What would be the point then? The shockwave would destroy everything in the system, and if the DS is going to theortically do the same thing...what's the difference?

Uhm - no Death Star flying through the Federation blowing up planets ?

The OP mentions evacuating Earth as an option. If you're giving up the Sol system anyway, why not destroy it along with the DS ?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-03-23 03:26pm

Do the Feds have those?

Uber-weapons appear to have the nasty habit of not survivng to the end of the movie.

I can't prove they have the torpedoes.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-03-23 03:27pm

What is Earth's population during TNG while we're at it? Might take a moment or two

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-03-23 03:32pm

Bounty wrote:
Do the Feds have those?
Uber-weapons appear to have the nasty habit of not survivng to the end of the movie.

I can't prove they have the torpedoes.

sauron was the only one who knew how to build the things, and he bit the dust at the end of Generations. i seriously doubt the feds would even be able to come close to replicating that technology.