RedImperator wrote:If you're going to tell 30 million taxpaying Americans they're second class citizens, you need a better reason than "My imaginary friend in the sky says so." Nobody's been able to provide one.
Agreed, if two guys get hitched or two ladies take the plunge; it makes not impact on how my wife and I view or marrage. It will not create any wedge or any cheapening of our relationship.
What two people do in their personal lives (as long as it does not harm anyone) is their own damn bussiness. And if the damn fundies would follow that particular bit of wisdom, all would be well.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
RedImperator wrote:If you're going to tell 30 million taxpaying Americans they're second class citizens, you need a better reason than "My imaginary friend in the sky says so." Nobody's been able to provide one.
Agreed, if two guys get hitched or two ladies take the plunge; it makes not impact on how my wife and I view or marrage. It will not create any wedge or any cheapening of our relationship.
What two people do in their personal lives (as long as it does not harm anyone) is their own damn bussiness. And if the damn fundies would follow that particular bit of wisdom, all would be well.
But if they don't stop gay marriage, God will punish the United States by causing another 9/11! Didn't you hear what Jerry Falwell said?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
So that's what they mean when they say allowing gays to marry will bring down society. It'll piss off the sky god! Exactly what happened when the Anglican church broke off over the issue of divorce, and....oh wait.
I voted no, but not for the reason stated. I go the completely oppisite direction as most on this issue. The government should not acknowledge gay marriage, or straight marriage. A Legal partnerships maybe, it could be anything from roommates to buisness, to marriage which would fall under this definition. The government should not care if a people are married or not, it is between those two indvidual, and if they so choose, a diety of thier choice. Why invite the government to get involved at all?
Sam Or I wrote:I voted no, but not for the reason stated. I go the completely oppisite direction as most on this issue. The government should not acknowledge gay marriage, or straight marriage. A Legal partnerships maybe, it could be anything from roommates to buisness, to marriage which would fall under this definition. The government should not care if a people are married or not, it is between those two indvidual, and if they so choose, a diety of thier choice. Why invite the government to get involved at all?
Key issues such as legal guardianship of children, divorce settlements, and hospital rights are defined by the standardized marriage contract. To say that roommates and spouses should be treated equally under the law is fucking retarded.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:
But if they don't stop gay marriage, God will punish the United States by causing another 9/11! Didn't you hear what Jerry Falwell said?
Good. Let it happen, then Falwell can move to a more Godly country.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Darth Wong wrote:
But if they don't stop gay marriage, God will punish the United States by causing another 9/11! Didn't you hear what Jerry Falwell said?
Good. Let it happen, then Falwell can move to a more Godly country.
You mean like Israel, God's Own Country...which if I'm not mistaken, has legal gay marriage...? (I could be mistaken on this, don't take my word for it).
Personally, I'm surprised and disappointed that the Republican Party is so adamantly against gay marriage. They're supposed to be the party of individual rights, free-religion and all that...that's why Libertarians are considered conservative, after all.
Actually, considering Falwell's wealth and his supposed plans for an idyllic community, he'd more likely secede a small tract of Virginia and declare it an independent, god-fearing state.
Molyneux wrote:You mean like Israel, God's Own Country...which if I'm not mistaken, has legal gay marriage...?
And they're having suicide bombings every two days. Obviousily just like in the Old Testament God is punishing them for their disobedience.
(The Republicans) are supposed to be the party of individual rights, free-religion and all that...
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Goddamnit that was funny! I almost chunked a lung I was laughing so hard.
Avalon616 wrote:Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...
That's OK, we accept your kind here. And since you seem to be from Massachutes, your desire to have peanut butter sandwiches will hopefully go unimpeeded. I personally like jelly, especially when she's sweet, slick, and smells like strawberries.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
Avalon616 wrote:Scary thing: I never did like jelly on my peanut butter sandwiches...
That's OK, we accept your kind here. And since you seem to be from Massachutes, your desire to have peanut butter sandwiches will hopefully go unimpeeded. I personally like jelly, especially when she's sweet, slick, and smells like strawberries.
(The Republicans) are supposed to be the party of individual rights, free-religion and all that...
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Goddamnit that was funny! I almost chunked a lung I was laughing so hard.
Well, I said 'supposed to'...honest conservatives are supposed to be in favor of keeping the government out of peoples' business, and letting people stand on their own two feet. The Binghamton Review - the conservative paper at my college - has published several articles in favor of gay marriage, one of which was written by me. We might think that Bush has done a few things right, but he still isn't a conservative when it comes to gay marriage (or, apparently, when it comes to thinks like that Terry Schiavo mess).
Ill bring some tomorrow. you may be late for your next class.
This day is Fantastic!
Myers Briggs: ENTJ
Political Compass: -3/-6 DOOMerWoW
"I really hate it when the guy you were pegging as Mr. Worst Case starts saying, "Oh, I was wrong, it's going to be much worse." " - Adrian Laguna
I think there are two levels of opposition to gay marriage, at least from what I've seen. There are people who are against it superficially--this is John Q. Citizen, who is perfectly fine with the idea that some people are sexually attracted to others of the same gender, is appalled by open gay bashing (though he may participate in it quietly, with jokes between his buddies and whatnot), and doesn't think it's any of his business what two adults do in their private life. Nevertheless, he's against gay marriage, because of some vague feeling that marriage is, by definition, a union between a man and a woman. He's perfectly fine with civil unions, in some cases up to and including what amounts to a de facto marriage, but he wants the word reserved for heterosexual unions. In many cases, he's confused as to what gay marriage proponents actually want--many of them think, for example, that legalized gay marriage means churches will be forced to conduct gay marriage ceremonies against their will.
Then there's the hardcore opposition. They're motivated by sheer religious bigotry. They don't want gays to get married, or have civil unions, or any other legal recognition because to do so would send the message that they're welcome in American society, in defiance of God's Will. The fight against gay marriage (using legal language that quietly lumps civil unions in with "marriage") is part of a systematic program to reduce gays to second class citizens. Since they feel homosexuality is a choice, the idea is to make life as a homosexual so miserable that nobody makes that choice--the other side of this idea are programs that "cure" gays through "love" (i.e., religious guilt and fear of eternal damnation).
Number two is in the minority, but they're politically motivated and quite vocal, and are good at scaring the first group into supporting an agenda that, if they stopped and thought about it, would find quite loathsome.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
RedImperator wrote:I think there are two levels of opposition to gay marriage, at least from what I've seen. There are people who are against it superficially--this is John Q. Citizen, who is perfectly fine with the idea that some people are sexually attracted to others of the same gender, is appalled by open gay bashing (though he may participate in it quietly, with jokes between his buddies and whatnot), and doesn't think it's any of his business what two adults do in their private life. Nevertheless, he's against gay marriage, because of some vague feeling that marriage is, by definition, a union between a man and a woman. He's perfectly fine with civil unions, in some cases up to and including what amounts to a de facto marriage, but he wants the word reserved for heterosexual unions. In many cases, he's confused as to what gay marriage proponents actually want--many of them think, for example, that legalized gay marriage means churches will be forced to conduct gay marriage ceremonies against their will.
Then there's the hardcore opposition. They're motivated by sheer religious bigotry. They don't want gays to get married, or have civil unions, or any other legal recognition because to do so would send the message that they're welcome in American society, in defiance of God's Will. The fight against gay marriage (using legal language that quietly lumps civil unions in with "marriage") is part of a systematic program to reduce gays to second class citizens. Since they feel homosexuality is a choice, the idea is to make life as a homosexual so miserable that nobody makes that choice--the other side of this idea are programs that "cure" gays through "love" (i.e., religious guilt and fear of eternal damnation).
Number two is in the minority, but they're politically motivated and quite vocal, and are good at scaring the first group into supporting an agenda that, if they stopped and thought about it, would find quite loathsome.
Doesn't that imply that the best course of action is to try and get group 1 to stop and think about the state of things?
I've seen them before, though they generally show up on rare occasion. I was expecting one to pop up and argue his case (excluding Sam or I's statement, of course).
Firefox wrote:I've seen them before, though they generally show up on rare occasion. I was expecting one to pop up and argue his case (excluding Sam or I's statement, of course).
The government conservatives (Shep, Axis Kast) generally keep their opinions to themselves on gay marriage. To my knowledge they have never made any statements either way on it.
There are a few religious conservatives on the board, I believe Captain Chewbacca opposes gay marriage, but they tend to stay quiet on it, probably to avoid the massive shitstorm that results from it.
There are also some religious posters that aren't opposed to it. Frigidmagi is a Pentecostal and has no problems with it.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Firefox wrote:I've seen them before, though they generally show up on rare occasion. I was expecting one to pop up and argue his case (excluding Sam or I's statement, of course).
The government conservatives (Shep, Axis Kast) generally keep their opinions to themselves on gay marriage. To my knowledge they have never made any statements either way on it.
There are a few religious conservatives on the board, I believe Captain Chewbacca opposes gay marriage, but they tend to stay quiet on it, probably to avoid the massive shitstorm that results from it.
There are also some religious posters that aren't opposed to it. Frigidmagi is a Pentecostal and has no problems with it.
...Hello? Libertarian? Fairly conservative in the political sense?
And I'm in favor of gay marriage. I would think that most libertarians would be.
Molyneux wrote:
...Hello? Libertarian? Fairly conservative in the political sense?
And I'm in favor of gay marriage. I would think that most libertarians would be.
I'm afraid I don't know what a Libertarian is, hence I have no idea as to what kind of point your trying make.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Molyneux wrote:
...Hello? Libertarian? Fairly conservative in the political sense?
And I'm in favor of gay marriage. I would think that most libertarians would be.
I'm afraid I don't know what a Libertarian is, hence I have no idea as to what kind of point your trying make.
Theoretically, libertarians are people who believe that government regulations are unnecessary, and that people will magically solve all of their own problems through a combination of intelligence and voluntary charity. Needless to say, the libertarian ideal is much too naive to put into practice and would realistically lead to anarchy, so most real libertarians are just people who are somewhat farther along the spectrum toward anarchy than, say, socialists.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Molyneux wrote:Doesn't that imply that the best course of action is to try and get group 1 to stop and think about the state of things?
Yes. You're wasting your time with group 2, even though theoretically if you convinced them it would be much more effective.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
