ROTS novelization: canon analysis- SPOILERS

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ROTS novelization: canon analysis- SPOILERS

Post by Vympel »

pp 348-349 wrote:It's not a thrilling climax; it's not the culmination of an epic struggle. Just the opposite, in fact. The Clone Wars were never an epic struggle. They were never intended to be.

What is happening right now is why the Clone Wars were fought in the first place. It is their reason for existence.The Clone Wars have always been, in and of themselves, from their very inception, the revenge of the Sith.

They were irresistible bait. They took place in remote locations, on planets that belonged, primarily, to "somebody eles". They were fought by expendable proxies. And they were constructed as a win-win situation.

The Clone Wars were the perfect Jedi trap.

By fighting at all, the Jedi lost.

With the Jedi Order overextended, spread thin across the galaxy, each Jedi is alone, surrounded only be whatever troops he, she or it commands. War itself pours darkness into the Force, deepening the cloud that limits Jedi perception. And the clones have no malice, no hatred, not the slightest ill intent that might give warning. They are only following orders.

In this case, Order Sixty-Six.

Hold out blasters appear in clone hands. ARC-170s drop back onto the tails of Jedi starfighters. AT-STs swivel their guns. Turrets on hovertanks swung silently.

Clones open fire, and Jedi die.

All across the galaxy. All at once.

Jedi die.
The Force: the act of war further "thickens" the cloud that limits Jedi perception- the same cloud or "shroud" referred to by Yoda and Mace Windu that was limiting the ability of the Jedi to use the Force back in Attack of the Clones.

Ground Combat: A canonical reference to hovertanks (presumably using repulsorlifts like landspeeders) used by the Grand Army of the Republic. This may be a reference to the TX-130 Sabre-class "fighter" tank.
p 349 wrote: Cody had coordinated the heavy-weapons operators from five different companies spread over an arc of three different levels of the sinkhole-city ...

He raised his comlink. "Execute."

On that order, T-21 muzzles swung, shoulder fired torps locked on, and proton grenade launchers angled to precisely calibrated elevations.

"Fire."

Kenobi, his dragonmount, and all five of the destroyer droids he'd been fighting vanished in a fireball that for an instant outshone Utapau's sun.

Visual polarizers in Cody's helmet cut the glare by 78 percent; his vision cleared in plenty of time to see shreds of dragonmount and twisted hunks of droid raining into the ocean mouth at the bottom of the sinkhole.

Cody scowled and keyed his comlink. "Looks like the lizard took the worst of it. Deploy the seekers. All of them."
Ground Combat: a glimpse of the weaponry used by the heavy-weapons operators of a Clonetrooper company- T-21 repeating blaster rifles (also used by Stormtroopers in A New Hope, on Tatooine), guided shoulder-fired torpedoes, and proton grenade launchers capable of indirect fire.

Ground Combat: Clonetrooper units deploy seeker droids to assist in reconnaisance and the acquisition of targets. These are probably similar to the model seen in use by the Stormtroopers searching for the droids in A New Hope.

Ground Combat: canonical reference to the vision aid devices present in Clonetrooper (and by extension, Stormtrooper) helmets.
p 354 wrote:He clipped it back to his belt by feel, and- using only a minor exercise of Jedi discipline to suppress compulsive coughing, he contracted his diaphragm, forcing as much water from his lungs as he could.
The Force: self-explanatory.
pp 357-358 wrote: He had walked only a few hundred metres before the gloom ahead of him was pierced by the white glare of high-intensity searchlights ...

Their searchlights illuminated- and, apparently, awakened- some sort of immense amphibian cousin of a dragonmount ...

The Huge Slimy Cave-Monster in question promptly opened jaws that could engulf a bantha and snapped one of the seekers from the air, chewing it to slivers with every evidence of satisfaction. The second seeker emitted a startled and thoroughly alarmed wheepwheepwheep and shot away into the darkness, with the creature in hot pursuit.
Droids: Clonetrooper seekers obviously have self-preservation programming.
p 359 wrote:Tantive IV swept through the Kashyyk system on silent running; this was still a combat zone. Captain Antilles wouldn't even risk standard scans, because they could so easily be detected and backtracked by Separatist forces.

...

"Bail stared through the forward view wall. Kashyyk was only a tiny green disk two hundred thousand kilometres away. "Do you have a vector?"

"Roughly, sir. It seems to be on an orbital tangent, headed outsystem."

"I think we can risk a scan. Tight beam."

"Very well, sir."

Antilles gave the necessary orders, and moments later the scan tech reported that the object they'd picked up seemed to be some sort of escape pod. "It's not a Republic model, sir- wait, here comes the database-"

The scan tech frowned at his screen. "It's ... Wookie, sir."

...

"Interesting." Bail didn't yet allow himself to hope. "Lifesigns?"

"Yes- well, maybe ... this reading doesn't make any ..."

The scan tech could only shrug. "I'm not sure, sir. Whatever it is, it's no Wookie, that's for sure ..."
Sensors: a wealth of canonical information about Star Wars sensors.

1. Ships can run in a reduced emissions mode to reduce their detectability to enemy sensors.

2. This reduced emissions mode includes scanning.

3. Scanning can be modulated to "tight beam", presumably to minimize the above risks.

4. The Tantive IV can not only detect an escape pod roughly 200,000km away- but it can also check a database to see what the target is, identify it precisely, scan for lifesigns, and determine what kind of life it is, to the point of detail in this case that is most assuredly not a Wookie.
p 360 wrote:Obi-Wan took General Grievous's starfighter screaming out of the atmosphere so fast he popped the gravity well and made jump before the Vigilance could even scramble its fighters. He reverted to real space well beyond the system, kicked the starfighter to a new vector, and jumped again. A few more jumps of random direction and duration left him deep in interstellar space.
Propulsion: techniques used by a hyperdrive-capable craft to evade pursuit. Presumably these attempts worked.
p 360 wrote:
While the starfighter's nav system whirred and clunked its way through recalculating his position, he punched codes to gang his Jedi comlink into the starfighter's system.

Instead of a holoscan, the comlink generated an audio signal- an accelerating series of beeps.

Obi-Wan knew the signal. Every Jedi did. It was the recall code.

It was being broadcast on every channel by every Holonet repeater. It was supposed to mean that the war was over. It was supposed to mean that the Council had ordered all Jedi to return to the Temple immediately.

Obi-Wan suspected it actually meant what had happened on Utapau was far from an isolated incident.

He keyed the comlink for audio. He took a deep breath.

"Emergency Code Nine Thirteen," he said, and waited.

The starfighter's comm system cycled through every response frequency.

He waited some more.

"Emergency Code Nine Thirteen. This is Obi-Wan Kenobi. Repeat: Emergency Code Nine Thirteen. Are there any Jedi out there?"
Comms: Obi-Wan is able to patch in General Grievous' comm system into his Jedi comlink, then use the galaxy-wide Holonet system to call out to any Jedi, anywhere.
p 362 wrote:Twenty-five thousand years wiped from existence in a single day.
Culture: The Jedi Order has existed for 25,000 years.
p 320 wrote:As a Jedi shuttle settled to the landing deck outside, the shadow sent its mind into the far deeper night within one of the several pieces of sculpture that graced the office: an abstract twistof solid neuranium, so heavy that the office floor had been specially reinforced to bear its weight, so dense that more sensitive species might, from very close range, actually perceive the tiny warping of the fabric of space-time that was its gravitation.

Neuranium of more than roughly a millimeter thick is impervious to sensors; the standard security scans undergone by all equipment and furniture to enter the Senate Office Building had shown nothing at all. If anybody had used an advanced gravimetric detector, however, they might have discovered that one smallish section of the sculpture massed slightly less than it should have, given that the manifest that had accompanied it, when it was brought from Naboo amoung the then-ambassador's personal effects, clearly stated that it was a piece of soild-forged neuranium.

The manifest was a lie. The sculpture was not entirely solid, and not all of it was neuranium.

...

The darkness within the sculpture whispered of the shape and feel and every intimate resonance of the device it cradled. With a twist of its will, the shadow triggered the device.

The neuranium got warm.

A small round spot, smaller than the circle a human child might make of thumb and forefinger, turned the color of old blood.

Then fresh blood.

Then open flame.

Finally a spear of scarlet energy lanced free, painting the office with the color of stars seen through the smoke of burning planets.
Misc: an example of the kind of ridiculously dense materials available for frivolous sculpture in the Star Wars galaxy. Which a lightsabre can cut through, given time.

I will add more when I get my hands on the actual novelization :)
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Post by Gandalf »

That first extract is really something.

I hope that exposition like that ends up in the film.
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Post by 000 »

I have the audio novelization (unabridged). Huge amounts of EU references in it. I haven't listened to much, but this jumped out at me:
The new government... this had been their star of destiny for lo, these many years. A government clean, pure, direct; none of the messy scramble for ignorant rabble and subhuman creatures that made up the Republic he so despised. The government he would serve would be authority personified: Human authority. It was no accident that the primary powers of the Confederacy of Independent Systems were Neimoidian, Skakoan, Quarren and Aqualish; Muun and Gossam, Cymirthian and Koorivar and Geonosian. At war's end the aliens would be crushed, stripped of all they possessed, and their systems and their wealth would be given into the hands of the only beings who could be trusted with them: Human beings. Dooku would serve an Empire of Man, and he would serve it as only he could, as he was born to. He would smash the Jedi Order to create it anew, not shackled by the corrupt, narcissistic, shabby little beings who called themselves politicians, but free to bring true authority and true peace to a galaxy that so badly needed both. An order that would not negotiate, would not mediate: an order that would enforce. The survivors of the Jedi Order would become the Sith Army, the fist of the Empire. And that fist would become a power beyond any Jedi's darkest dreams. The Jedi were not the only users of the Force in the Galaxy. From Hapes to Haruun Kal, from Kiffu to Dathomir, powerful force-capable humans and near-humans had long refused to surrender their children to life-long bound servitude in the Jedi Order. They would not so refuse the Sith Army. They would not have the choice.
So: the Empire was indeed anti-alien, and Palpatine did not intendt to follow the vaunted "Rule of Two."
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Post by McC »

Gladius' quote is interesting for one of the last lines. "Human and near-human." So the Empire didn't particularly mind aliens if they were mostly human.
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Post by FTeik »

Isn't that Dooku's POV?
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Post by 000 »

It does suggest that. I guess this could explain why Palpatine didn't seem to mind associating with Maul or Thrawn. They're not really aliens, just different breeds of human.

EDIT: Yes, the point of view is Dooku's.
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Post by Gorefiend »

Zabraks (like Maul) are aliens ;) not near-humans like the Chiss, Etti , Hapans etc.
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Post by 000 »

No, I think Zabraks are also a strain of human. From what we've seen they're identical but for the horns.
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Post by Gorefiend »

Something being near human does not really go by the looks of it, the Xa Fel don’t to much like human (not any more at least), but they are near-humans non the less. The Wotc Guides put Zabrak’s down as Aliens, which they really seem to be, as far as the EU goes. :)
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Post by McC »

Gorefiend wrote:Something being near human does not really go by the looks of it, the Xa Fel don’t to much like human (not any more at least), but they are near-humans non the less. The Wotc Guides put Zabrak’s down as Aliens, which they really seem to be, as far as the EU goes. :)
In what book do they talk about Xa Fel?
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Post by Gorefiend »

West End Game’s Thrawn Trilogy Guide.
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Post by Mange »

Gladius wrote:and Palpatine did not intendt to follow the vaunted "Rule of Two.
This is clearly from Dooku's POV, and it's likely that Palpatine/Sidious made Dooku believe that, without ever really contemplating that since Sidious has told Dooku about Anakin Skywalker. I don't think that Dooku would appreciate it if Sidious had told him that Dooku and Skywalker would fight each other to see who would be the apprentice of Sidious. If he had done so, it's easy to think that Dooku would've turned against him to become the master himself.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

You know, on that whole rule of two thing... I have always thought that with Palpatine, it wasn't three, it was more like two and a half.

Basically instead of a Master and two Apprenti , it was always a Master, an Apprentice, and a flunkie..

Look at Darth Maul, he was never a true second too Palpatine, he was the hot and mad flunkie Palpatine used to do his dirty work. Doku was always the true student, the smart one... But he was too old... SO once Maul was eliminated, Dooku becomes the new flunkie and Ani becomes the new Apprentice.
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Post by Gorefiend »

Plus, Palpi and Vader have at least of few dozen dark side followers under the empire( hands, mages, inquisitors etc.). So he really does not care to much about the sith rule, though in fact, there are only two sith (vader and palpi), whilst all the other dark sider just seem to be using the dark side, not necessarily sith lore/arts.
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Post by Gorefiend »

hmm... does anyone know if Aayla and Vos are mentioned at all in the novel/audio book? I in fact hope they are not, their comic deaths are already very sad, especially Aayla who seems to gets blasted further even after she is already down :/
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

I'm bored so I'm gonna add to this by addressing the previous posting form the ROTS novel:
ROTS novelization wrote: The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships.
First off is determining the size of the target. How does one note what qualifies as a "small town?" Generally its rather an arbitrary term, but for the sake of argument, I will use two examples from my home state: my home town (St Cloud) and Duluth. The former has a population of around 60,000 (but the surrounding population brings it to around 100,000) and the latter has a population of around 100,000.

According to this link the total land area of St Cloud is around 41 square miles (about 66 square kilometers). This makes it about 9-10 km in diameter.

As for Duluth, the land are according to this link is about 143 square miles (~230 square kilometers.), or about 17-18 km in diameter.

(Its worth noting that I am being somewhat conservative here regarding the diameters.. in reality the "land area" of the town should fall well within the diameters, and the blast radius would extend out farther than that. However, its hard to tell just how far. Its still good enough for a fairly conservative estimate, though.)

Now that I have my diameters, I can start figuring out the results. For this, I intend to use 3 different calculators. The first is Mike's Nuclear weapons effects calculator

For this calculator I will use two different assumptions: (a.) Take "vaporization" as literal, meaning that the diameter of the town corresponds to the size of a ground-contact fireball.) and (b.) take vaporization to simply mean "destroy", which means that the diameter will correspond to the "air blast radius" for near-total fatalities (sufficient to destroy any aboveground building.) For a 10 km diameter (5 km radius), the energy value for (a.) is 100-150 megatons and for (b) it is 6-7 megatons . For a 20 km diameter (10 km radius) (a) is around 800-900 megatons and (b) is 50-60 megatons approximately.

This is quite conservative as an estimate for many reasons: the blast radius, the fact that a TL is not a nuclear bomb but a beam weapon, etc.

The second calculator I will use is Mike's asteroid destruction calculator For this the diameters will correspond to the Cratering energy for Hard Granite on one hand and 1/2 the fragmentation energy on the other (which is for igneous rock.) I will also mention melting and vaporization energies (since it DOES mention vaporization, and we can expect the ground underneath the town to also be destroyed, this is reasonable.) The crater is assumed to encompass the whole town.and a depth of the ground equal to the radius of the blast.

For a 10 km diameter (10,000 meters), cratering energy is 181 megatons. Fragmentation energy is 1 gigaton, so 1/2 that corresponds to a 500 megaton value. For a 20 km diameter, cratering energy is 1.4 gigatons and fragmentation energy is 8 gigatons, or 4 gigatons

Melting energy for a 10 km diameter is 770 gigatons, while vaporization is 3.84e3 gigatons. For a 20 km diameter, melting energy is 6.16e3 gigatons and vaporization energy is 3.1e4 gigatons

This yielded much higher values (and ones much more consistent with what is currently inferred for SW warships.) but it is still conservative (mainly because its assuming a centrally buried explosive (which a TL isnt.)

The last calculator I will use is the asteroid impact calculator Respective diameters will correspond to 4 factors: (a.) air blast radius (b) seismic effects (c.) fireball diameter and (d.) crater size.

(target type is crystalline rock, and impact angle is 45 degrees in all cases.)

For 10 km diameter (5 km radius), (a) corresponds to about 100-200 megatons. (b) corresponds to around 5 gigatons at least. (c) corresponds to at least 4-5 gigatons of energy. (d) corresponds to about 40 gigatons of energy.

For a 20 km diameter (10 km radius): (a) corresponds to about 800 megatons of energy. (b) corresponds to approximately 5 gigatons of energy. (c.) corresponds to about 40 gigatons of energy. (d.) corresponds to about 500-600 gigatons of energy.

Asteroid impacts are much more consistent with TL impacts than the previous two calculators (given that the impact transfers energy to the target in a more directed rather than omnidirectional fashion.). Its still not a perfect comparison (not all TL-type weapons are likely to be physical impactors.) but the distinction is not, IMHO, as significant (especially since at the enerrgy levels you are discussing about for TLs typically you will have tons of momentum regardless of whether it is a massless beam or not.)

These results tend to vary widely, but it should demonstrate that TLs are at least well into the megaton range at a minimum, but more likely to be in the gigaton range (or more) per bolt.
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Post by Vympel »

Holy crap. That's pretty excellent Connor. Hats off to you.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

McC wrote:Gladius' quote is interesting for one of the last lines. "Human and near-human." So the Empire didn't particularly mind aliens if they were mostly human.
It's very much liek Nazi Germany if you think about it. They wanted to create a 'pure, aryian' world...and they didnt much care about abducting little blonde boys and girls as long as they were pure.

Palpy is starting to sound a lot like Hitler here. I'm surprised he doesnt have his own Mein Kampf that Anakin stumbles upon..."My Empire".
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Post by FTeik »

He probabely has.

I only know about it from an essay by Publius on his DomusPublica, but early in his career Palpatine was obviously writting political manifests or articles combining Sith-Philosophy with his political ideas. Articles, that were very well received in the educated circles of the time. By doing that he already laid the philosophical and intellectual foundations for his empire.

Later he was writting his DarkSide-Compendium, including stuff like "The book of Anger" or "The inferiority of the weak".
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Post by Dorsk 81 »

P 320 wrote:As a Jedi shuttle settled to the landing deck outside, the shadow sent its mind into the far deeper night within one of the several pieces of sculpture that graced the office: an abstract twistof solid neuranium, so heavy that the office floor had been specially reinforced to bear its weight, so dense that more sensitive species might, from very close range, actually perceive the tiny warping of the fabric of space-time that was its gravitation.

Neuranium of more than roughly a millimeter thick is impervious to sensors; the standard security scans undergone by all equipment and furniture to enter the Senate Office Building had shown nothing at all. If anybody had used an advanced gravimetric detector, however, they might have discovered that one smallish section of the sculpture massed slightly less than it should have, given that the manifest that had accompanied it, when it was brought from Naboo amoung the then-ambassador's personal effects, clearly stated that it was a piece of soild-forged neuranium.

The manifest was a lie. The sculpture was not entirely solid, and not all of it was neuranium.

...

The darkness within the sculpture whispered of the shape and feel and every intimate resonance of the device it cradled. With a twist of its will, the shadow triggered the device.

The neuranium got warm.

A small round spot, smaller than the circle a human child might make of thumb and forefinger, turned the color of old blood.

Then fresh blood.

Then open flame.

Finally a spear of scarlet energy lanced free, painting the office with the color of stars seen through the smoke of burning planets.
Palpatine took a pretty stupid risk there, hiding his Lightsaber like that, it would have been alot safer to make a new one when he got to Coruscant. He should have disguised his saber crystal in one of the art works and then made a new hilt.

If someone had used an advanced gravimetric detector, and discovered that it wasn't solid, what do you think the most likely assumtion they would jump to is? Some sort of bomb to attempt to assasinate Palpy? Crack the sculpture open and; Jedi and scanner crew "What the hell is a lightsaber doing hidden in the sculpture?!", Palpy "Oh so thats where my letter opener got to!"
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Post by Petrosjko »

Dorsk 81 wrote:Palpatine took a pretty stupid risk there, hiding his Lightsaber like that, it would have been alot safer to make a new one when he got to Coruscant. He should have disguised his saber crystal in one of the art works and then made a new hilt.

If someone had used an advanced gravimetric detector, and discovered that it wasn't solid, what do you think the most likely assumtion they would jump to is? Some sort of bomb to attempt to assasinate Palpy? Crack the sculpture open and; Jedi and scanner crew "What the hell is a lightsaber doing hidden in the sculpture?!", Palpy "Oh so thats where my letter opener got to!"
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Post by Vympel »

LOL. Well said.
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Post by Dorsk 81 »

Petrosjko wrote:"This isn't the statue you need to scan."

"This isn't the statue I need to scan."
:P

I still think it was an unnecessary risk. Minimal yes, but still unnecessary.
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