Vong vs Species8572

[Crossroads Inc.]

The worst of StarWars vs the Worst of StarTrek!
The Bio 'Über' ships that made a Galaxy quake in fear!!
The creatures you Love to hate!

This is a no holds bar match, down and dirty, no outside help, each side has all resources available, ready GO!

[Junghalli]

We really don't know enough about 8472 to say much of anything. Aside from the fact that their wacky pocket cosmos is full of liquid we really know absolutely nothing about what it looks like.

[Darth Servo]

I haven't read much about the Vong.

S8472 may have had some powerful weapons but their numbers absolutely suck. When Voyager invaded their galaxy, a pitiful FOUR ships were sent to intercept them. Later when Voy had returned to borg space, only a couple dozen bioships gave chase. We SAW a bioship destroyed by a low relative speed impact with a cube and borg disruptors were powerful enough to punch a hole in one through to the cockpit. The biggest number of bioships reported was 133. Thats nothing in the SW galaxy.

[Techno_Union]

Where does this battle take place?

And we really don't know a lot about S8472 and their production capabilities, so we have no way of telling just how many ships they could pump out -- that is if they stay in the war, as there would be many casualties since the Vong are a rather nasty species to mess with.

[Techno_Union]

Meant to add this in: it's Species 8472.

[Junghalli]

S8472 may have had some powerful weapons but their numbers absolutely suck. When Voyager invaded their galaxy, a pitiful FOUR ships were sent to intercept them.

An 8472 armed spacecraft is more powerful than a Borg cube. A Borg cube has to have at least 50 times the firepower of Voyager (ref. battle of Wolf 359). Four of their craft are massive overkill for taking down Voyager.
And here's another happy thought. All of the 8472 craft we saw were single seat fighters. How do we know they don't have heavier classes?

[Batman]

As Species 90210 was not capable of one-shot vaporizing Borg cubes, which is easily within the power of Wars ships, and the Vong gave NR forces a run for their money...

[Techno_Union]

And here's another happy thought. All of the 8472 craft we saw were single seat fighters. How do we know they don't have heavier classes?

Is there anything in the series to point to any other types of ships? Also, just because they're single seaters doesn't mean they're fighters, unless they're called fighters.

[BringerOfLight]

An 8472 armed spacecraft is more powerful than a Borg cube. A Borg cube has to have at least 50 times the firepower of Voyager (ref. battle of Wolf 359). Four of their craft are massive overkill for taking down Voyager.
And here's another happy thought. All of the 8472 craft we saw were single seat fighters. How do we know they don't have heavier classes?

Thats still not comparable to SW-level firepower, the Slave-1 could easily output that level of firepower and a hell of alot more should the situation deems it necessary.

[Lord Pounder]

Species 90210 go down hard. The Vong had a fleet large enough to almost wipe out the NR. Their ships are on par with the NR fleet at it's height. Hell at the start of the war YV fighters where killing heavy cap ships.

[Praxis]

The Vong CRUSH them like bugs.

If Voyager can survive their weaponry, so can the Vong ships.

If Vong ships can take out ISD's, they can take out S8472 ships.

[Mr. T]

Don't know much about the Vong, as I haven't read much of the EU, but from what I have heard, I'd say that they would kill 8472. I mean they didn't really seem to have alot of bio-ships, we only ever saw about 12 max of them in Voyager episodes.

[Junghalli]

The Vong CRUSH them like bugs.
If Voyager can survive their weaponry, so can the Vong ships.

Hmm, you do realize that the 8472's probably wanted to capture Voyager and study it, for which vaporizing it would be counterproductive. If you were trying to get a specimen of an alien species' tech for study you'd want to capture it with minimal damage. Which means you don't hit it with a weapon that's dozens of times more powerful than you need to rip it to pieces. The 8472's dialed down their weapons to a setting powerful enough to overload Voyager's shields but leave the ship's superstructure more-or-less intact.
Look, if 8472 weapons were really that weak there's no way they could have been pwning the Borg like they were.

If Vong ships can take out ISD's, they can take out S8472 ships.

Maybe, but I think the 8472 ships rely more on being manueverable enough to not get hit than on superstrong shields. Judging by the way they're built (small and probably with a light resource commitment per ship) they'd be more at home with a one shot=one kill battle than Vong IMO.

[Crossroads Inc.]

*sniggers*

Wow, gotta be the first Time I've seen anyone sticking up for those Vongships
When I posted the poll I wondered if anyone wou;d go for anybody, gues it just goes to show the "Anything But Trek" Feelings,

[Techno_Union]

Vong ships, while being bioships and relatively odd in SW, are nonetheless effective against certain crafts. Personally, I like their designs a lot, and the weapons are also pretty cool (though mabye not appropriate for SW).

[The Silence and I]

From what I understand of the two the Vong would win any likely engagement, although it is quite possible the 8472 can hide in their realm safe from counter attack.

It does seem likely species 8472 dialed down the output of their weapon when engaging Voyager, considering the level of destruction they fielded against the Borg. However their total firepower is still likely less than Vong heavy weaponry considering the cubes did not appear (AFAIK) to sustain damage typical from TT level weaponry.

However I do expect the Vong to take losses; lacking typical shields species 8472 weaponry, which includes chain reaction elements capable of destroying a planet when scaled up, should cause greater damage than its energy content suggests. Their ship maneuverability may also give them an edge combating ships fielding large, slow to track weaponry. But in the end we see neither the ship numbers nor the dedication to win against the numerous and fanatical Vong.

[Praxis]

Let's see, the Vong use up several thousand ships in a SUICIDE attack. Remember Coruscant? When they send every damaged ship in the battle to suicide ram the shield?

Species 8472 loses 12 ships and runs...

[Ghost Rider]

I'm still waiting for something beyond bullshit then what I've seen.

My god, this is truly some absurd Trek Wanking when people go

1. Chain reaction effects will happen. Let's remember against what and how many ships they used. Right because the Vong will STAND there .

2. They will hide in their dimension. Actually valid but won't win anything given we saw how quickly they ran...first engagment with the Vong's GT-TT level weaponry they will lose every ship.

3. More manuverable. Y'know...I've yet to see proof that they are better then the thousand of C movement of the ISD.

4. They'll hurt the Vong ships. I see...so we have calcs to back this up for 8472's side, right?

[Vicious]

One thing no one has mentioned is that the Vong have a sort of communal consciousness in battle, thanks to their yammosks. I know it's fanwank and all, but it's canon fanwank. This gives them a decided edge in battle, as everyone knows what everyone else is doing and can react to events far faster. Not to mention that the Vong stomped the NR utterly, before Borelias(sp?) and Ebaq 9.

[Bounty]

One thing no one has mentioned is that the Vong have a sort of communal consciousness in battle, thanks to their yammosks.

8472 communicate telepathically.

[Crossroads Inc.]

You know, that may have been something overlooked… While the Vong would surely overwhelm these guys in space battle, would 8472 have an advantage in hand to hand? They do seem really nasty fighters…

[SirNitram]

You know, that may have been something overlooked… While the Vong would surely overwhelm these guys in space battle, would 8472 have an advantage in hand to hand? They do seem really nasty fighters…

Um, they have no ranged weapons. Their sole claim to fame is claws. Vong have melee and ranged weapons, and reaction speeds sufficient to take on mystical warriors who see shit before it happens.

That kind of puts you above 'I can claw your face'.

Furthermore, let me roll my eyes. A sensible person would look at this thread and say 'hrm, maybe they've discussed this before and worked out how much power those Bioships spew, and whether it's enough to bring down a Cube.' You, on the other hand, just chalk it up to 'Anything but Trek' feeling. Thank you for dropping to an Appeal to Motive fallacy.

[Darth Servo]

An 8472 armed spacecraft is more powerful than a Borg cube. A Borg cube has to have at least 50 times the firepower of Voyager (ref. battle of Wolf 359). Four of their craft are massive overkill for taking down Voyager.

And yet Voyager survived being hit by one. A>B. B>C. C>A. Nice little logic there, isn't it?

And here's another happy thought. All of the 8472 craft we saw were single seat fighters. How do we know they don't have heavier classes?

Right. You're conducting the invasion of a race that spans thousands of star systems. Of COURSE you'll send in your wimpiest ships.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Furthermore, let me roll my eyes. A sensible person would look at this thread and say 'hrm, maybe they've discussed this before and worked out how much power those Bioships spew, and whether it's enough to bring down a Cube.' You, on the other hand, just chalk it up to 'Anything but Trek' feeling. Thank you for dropping to an Appeal to Motive fallacy.

EH, heh, terribly sorry about that, I AM a bit new, not meaning to belittle positions one way or the other. I simply noticed how few people like the Vong and Bio tech, and thought I would put them up against something equally hated by StarTrek.

[The Silence and I]

An 8472 armed spacecraft is more powerful than a Borg cube. A Borg cube has to have at least 50 times the firepower of Voyager (ref. battle of Wolf 359). Four of their craft are massive overkill for taking down Voyager.

And yet Voyager survived being hit by one. A>B. B>C. C>A. Nice little logic there, isn't it?

As a nitpick dialed down output has been proposed to explain this; and it fits with the episode's events as I understand them. If you want to attack something, attack the idea that 8472 dialed down the power.