Wager 400 hundred Quatloo's on the new comer....

SWvST: the subject of the main site.

Moderator: Vympel

You have 400 hundred Qualtoo's....

Poll ended at 2005-04-15 09:30am

Kirk
12
35%
Solo
22
65%
 
Total votes: 34

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Darth Servo
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Post by Darth Servo »

brianeyci wrote:Whatever, if you wanted to say that Klingons are overrated and aging overweight Kirk can beat up a Klingon, then a counter to that is that Kruge wanted Genesis and was holding back from killing him.
You can knock someone unconscious without killing him
Kruge even said that he was happy to fight Kirk to the death, as if he was enjoying the fight.
Doesn't this kind of refute your first point raised above?
Remember that Kruge only lost because the ground gave way underneath him and he dropped onto the ledge. Kirk was losing to Kruge.
If Klingons were HALF what Trekkies make them out to be, the fight wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as it did. Kirk kicking him shouldn't have made him lose his grip on Kirk's boot if Klingons really were as advertized.
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brianeyci
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Post by brianeyci »

Darth Servo wrote:
brianeyci wrote:Whatever, if you wanted to say that Klingons are overrated and aging overweight Kirk can beat up a Klingon, then a counter to that is that Kruge wanted Genesis and was holding back from killing him.
You can knock someone unconscious without killing him.
That would be difficult when the other person is trying to kill you.
Kruge even said that he was happy to fight Kirk to the death, as if he was enjoying the fight.
Doesn't this kind of refute your first point raised above?
No. The point is that Kruge could have been extending the fight, both for pleasure and so that not to kill Kirk.
If Klingons were HALF what Trekkies make them out to be, the fight wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as it did. Kirk kicking him shouldn't have made him lose his grip on Kirk's boot if Klingons really were as advertized.
Too bad I'm not a Trekkie, or a Trekker that claims that "Klingons uber". I've only pointed out that a Klingon is stronger than a human in general. Are you talking about the ledge? Give me a break, Kruge was being kicked in the fucking face, and Kirk's boot could have been slippery and hard to hold onto.

It is just not strength, which is why I asked Vicious' opinion on Kirk's fighting style. Strength is not a variable to be ignored though, especially when Kirk's fighting style depends a lot on grappling.

Brian
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Post by The Silence and I »

brianeyci wrote:
Kruge even said that he was happy to fight Kirk to the death, as if he was enjoying the fight.
Doesn't this kind of refute your first point raised above?
No. The point is that Kruge could have been extending the fight, both for pleasure and so that not to kill Kirk.
This might be a good idea, during the fight Kirk was the only one hitting and kicking, Kurge was merely reacting to what Kirk did for the most part--with the strength needed to lift Kirk clear off the ground at arm's length Kurge could easily have won the fight with a few punches. But the fact is Kurge never punched, kicked, body slammed or did anything of that nature. He strangled Kirk, then let him go, he took several punches without return, then he blocked a kick and tossed Kirk through the air. He let Kirk hit him with a branch without fighting back, then swung him into a rock and started beating him against it--still no punching, no grabbing the hair and smashing Kirk's head into the rock, just his back and shoulders. Then Kirk nails him in the balls and the shortly after the ledge gives way. Kurge does seem to have been holding back, and his dialog supports this view point:
Kirk: You fool look around you! The planet's destroying itself!
Kurge: Yeess, exhilerating isn't it?
Kirk: If we don't help each other we'll die here.
Kurge: Perfect! Then that's the way it shall be!
Kurge appears to love the idea of fighting until the planet consumes them, for that to happen you can't have a short fight. Moreso, he seems to love the idea of fighting Kirk in general. That combined with his nearly total lack of offense suggests to me he was not trying to end the fight quickly.
Too bad I'm not a Trekkie, or a Trekker that claims that "Klingons uber". I've only pointed out that a Klingon is stronger than a human in general. Are you talking about the ledge? Give me a break, Kruge was being kicked in the fucking face, and Kirk's boot could have been slippery and hard to hold onto.
Indeed, there is something to be said for the fact he held on at all; Kurge has small hands and he was holding the boot palm facing downward. What this means is his grip relyed entirely on his thumb, this exact disadvantage is exploited in self defense to break the grips of even strong men. Kurge had an extremely poor grip position, and was then kicked in the face three times before his thumb slipped. Face the music, Kurge--unlike the Klingons you are used to--has far more strength than humans.
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Jay
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Post by Jay »

Thanks everybody. I've never been brave enough to start a thread before, so I thought I'd start with something nice and simple. I really enjoyed reading all the responces. I'm still at a loss as to who would win. I voted for Kirk, but then again, I am a raging trekkie....


One for Brian - when I wrote prime, I meant 'at his best.' I selected my words very carefully so that both sides of the debate copuld field whichever solo or kirk they thought was the best. I don't meant to single you out, but I couldn't find a reply to you query.


I know this is thread necromancy, but I ddi say I'd be away for a while, and I just wanted to say thank you
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