Vong vs Species8572

[Robert Walper]

"Fed shields are better than when the Borg don't have their shields up". Your brilliant deduction is awe inspiring.

I await an ounce of evidence it's shields were not operating, Walper. I suspect, however, I will waiting a long time.

You will no doubt wait a very long time, as you're obviously way too incompetent to realize the Borg raised their shields after. That's why when the Enterprise fired it's torpedoes afterwards, they...*GASP*...did no damage to the hull!

I won't even bother going into other details you obviously have forgotten about, like how shields flare when impacted, even when being breached.

Stating the obvious doesn't win you any points Nitram. Take your childish and retarded "troll hunting" somewhere else.

'Wah, wah, the big bad man is pointing out I can't fucking read! That's not fair!!!' Go fuck yourself, kiddie. I'm not going to invent excuses to make the Borg stronger than observed just to satisfy your fetish. Show evidence or concede.

The evidence is obvious to anyone with half a brain, which naturally rules you out. Even breached shields flare up, the cube's shields stopped photon torpedoes we know to be more powerful than phasers after the Enterprise fired it's phasers. The conclusion is pretty damned obvious, although apparently not to you.

[SirNitram]

I await an ounce of evidence it's shields were not operating,

Go above to my post. Enterprise beamed onto the Borg cube, while in BOBW they needed a shuttle to breech the perimeter of the cube's shields to beam in. It is reasonable to assume the cube's shields were down or else there would have been at least a mention of beaming through shields, always a hazardous tactic.

Brian

They did not breach the Cube's shields. Do not fucking lie when the evidence is there for anyone to take in the Database attached to this site.

WORF: Shuttle has penetrated the Borg electromagnetic field.

We know shields make shuttles bounce off, so why don't you try peddling your BS elsewhere?

The solar flare in Descent, the planetary debris in Scorpion, and the tommy gun bullets in First Contact are all also examples of attacks that were not frequency dependent(And therefore, unadaptable) and which showed no signs of a shield. Considering all three of these were in situations where the Cubes or Drones were in danger, it is ludicrous to assume the shields were voluntarily down.

But the Borg Wankers will claim it anyways.

[SirNitram]

"Fed shields are better than when the Borg don't have their shields up". Your brilliant deduction is awe inspiring.

I await an ounce of evidence it's shields were not operating, Walper. I suspect, however, I will waiting a long time.

You will no doubt wait a very long time, as you're obviously way too incompetent to realize the Borg raised their shields after. That's why when the Enterprise fired it's torpedoes afterwards, they...*GASP*...did no damage to the hull!

I won't even bother going into other details you obviously have forgotten about, like how shields flare when impacted, even when being breached.

Lookie there, no evidence. Just more assertions unbacked by anything resembling the big, scary E word.

Stating the obvious doesn't win you any points Nitram. Take your childish and retarded "troll hunting" somewhere else.

'Wah, wah, the big bad man is pointing out I can't fucking read! That's not fair!!!' Go fuck yourself, kiddie. I'm not going to invent excuses to make the Borg stronger than observed just to satisfy your fetish. Show evidence or concede.

The evidence is obvious to anyone with half a brain, which naturally rules you out. Even breached shields flare up, the cube's shields stopped photon torpedoes we know to be more powerful than phasers after the Enterprise fired it's phasers. The conclusion is pretty damned obvious, although apparently not to you.

Descent, Scorpion, Q Who, First Contact. What do all these have in common? Non-frequency attacks not bringing out a shield flare. You lose.. Again.

[brianeyci]

They did not breach the Cube's shields. Do not fucking lie when the evidence is there for anyone to take in the Database attached to this site.

WORF: Shuttle has penetrated the Borg electromagnetic field.

We know shields make shuttles bounce off, so why don't you try peddling your BS elsewhere?

You're right, I didn't check the script and my memory was faulty. And no, not all shields make shuttles bounce off. Ramming works often in DS9.

O'BRIEN
The Borg have adapted their
electromagnetic field to prevent
main Transporter functions, sir...

Brian

[SirNitram]

They did not breach the Cube's shields. Do not fucking lie when the evidence is there for anyone to take in the Database attached to this site.

WORF: Shuttle has penetrated the Borg electromagnetic field.

We know shields make shuttles bounce off, so why don't you try peddling your BS elsewhere?

You're right, I didn't check the script and my memory was faulty. And no, not all shields make shuttles bounce off. Ramming works often in DS9.

O'BRIEN
The Borg have adapted their
electromagnetic field to prevent
main Transporter functions, sir...

Brian

Exactly: If it was just a shield, they would not need to 'adapt' their ship's EM field to block transport.

And I remember now, the Bug's smashing into the Galaxy-class, IIRC, Odessy? Did shields flash then? I can't recall.

[Batman]

We know shields make shuttles bounce off, so why don't you try peddling your BS elsewhere?

And no, not all shields make shuttles bounce off. Ramming works often in DS9.
Brian[/quote]
Which means you can overcome shields with ramming attacks, which presumably involve (for Trek anyway) high speed. I suggest you rewatch BOBW. That shuttle was moving at a fast walk. Maybe.

[brianeyci]

And I remember now, the Bug's smashing into the Galaxy-class, IIRC, Odessy? Did shields flash then? I can't recall.

IIRC, no. But in that case we definitely have a reason for shields being down. The Dominion was using Phased Polaron beams, which could shoot through Federation shielding at that point. Shield power was probably diverted to weapons.

Brian

[SirNitram]

And I remember now, the Bug's smashing into the Galaxy-class, IIRC, Odessy? Did shields flash then? I can't recall.

IIRC, no. But in that case we definitely have a reason for shields being down. The Dominion was using Phased Polaron beams, which could shoot through Federation shielding at that point. Shield power was probably diverted to weapons.

Brian

Legitimate point. I'll not add it to the list as that does make enough sense. I don't think we saw any shield flashes.

[brianeyci]

Which means you can overcome shields with ramming attacks, which presumably involve (for Trek anyway) high speed. I suggest you rewatch BOBW. That shuttle was moving at a fast walk. Maybe.

Torpedoes move at 500 m/s, and don't penetrate Dominion shielding.

Anyway the point is moot, since the shuttle obviously did not penetrate the shields of the cube from that quotation, only the "electromagnetic field".

Brian

[Batman]

Which means you can overcome shields with ramming attacks, which presumably involve (for Trek anyway) high speed. I suggest you rewatch BOBW. That shuttle was moving at a fast walk. Maybe.

Torpedoes move at 500 m/s, and don't penetrate Dominion shielding.

And I'm reasonably certain they mass the tiniest bit less than, say, a Jem'Haddar bug.

Anyway the point is moot, since the shuttle obviously did not penetrate the shields of the cube from that quotation, only the "electromagnetic field".
Brian

Absolutely.

[DV8R]

Considering 8472 one seater ships destroyed an entire planet by linking 5 or 6 ships, that is more firepower than the Death Star.

8472 wins by shear firepower.

[DV8R]

An 8472 armed spacecraft is more powerful than a Borg cube. A Borg cube has to have at least 50 times the firepower of Voyager (ref. battle of Wolf 359). Four of their craft are massive overkill for taking down Voyager.
And here's another happy thought. All of the 8472 craft we saw were single seat fighters. How do we know they don't have heavier classes?

Thats still not comparable to SW-level firepower, the Slave-1 could easily output that level of firepower and a hell of alot more should the situation deems it necessary.

Your saying the slave1 has enough firepower to destroy a planet? No.

[DV8R]

Obviously, you are too fucking stupid to realize that since they knew nothing of Voyager, if we accept your idiotic postulate that they would dial down their weapon power for no reason, they would dial it down assuming that Voyager's power to size ratio is similar to that of a Borg cube.

The motives behind the bioship's attack are not certain. We could speculate it may have only intented to chase Voyager off, not interested in wasting effort in even destroying her. Much like how one would half heartedly swat at an insect while being much more interested in dealing with a more serious foe/threat.

Yes they are - the borg started a war with them. That is cannon it was in the 2 part episode.

[DV8R]

Just another thought:
- IIRC the S8472 fire was just hitting the Voyager for a split second.
- Wasn't Voyager heavily optimized by Seven of Nine for combatting S8472?

But still, just because S8472 firepower fucked up the cubes, it doesn't mean they can stand up against the Vong. For all that matters, Slave One can fuck those cubes as well. Hasn't SW fighters vs ST capship debate done to the death before?

Slave1 weapons are weak. Common, its cannon that in Episode 2 when Jango was chasing OB1, the Jedi ship took 2 direct hits and still flew. It also demonstrated how unaccurate the line of fire was with the target, this is demonstrated in the battle in the astroid field. Slave one can only fire its main weapons when the ship is positioned directly in the line of fire. That is a tactical disadvantage.

[Batman]

Considering 8472 one seater ships destroyed an entire planet by linking 5 or 6 ships, that is more firepower than the Death Star.
8472 wins by shear firepower.

1. This is almost certainly threadomancy. MODS: Lock away.
2. Garbage, as this was clearly NOT a DET event, therefore firepower required is completely up for grabs.

[Batman]

annon that in Episode 2 when Jango was chasing OB1, the Jedi ship took 2 direct hits and still flew.

Which doesn't say beans about the firepower without knowing the durability of the target. That durability is?

It also demonstrated how unaccurate the line of fire was with the target, this is demonstrated in the battle in the astroid field. Slave one can only fire its main weapons when the ship is positioned directly in the line of fire. That is a tactical disadvantage.

This makes no sense whatsoever.
I stand by my threadomancy comment, BTW. I merely felt this was too stupid NOT to respond to.

[Ghost Rider]

Wow a dumbshit, not actually giving arguments on any sort of durability or accuracy but make broad red herrings statements...and necroing to prove he's a retard.