What is exactly so bad with Episode I and II?

[Crazedwraith]

I think Meest has a good point.

In ANH the whole movie begins with rebels getting their asses handed to them. Lots of rebel troopers kick the bucket in that one. Later when the rebels attack the DS, 80% of the attacking fighters are destroyed.
-Gunhead

Nitpick: 3 out of 30 survive. (Luke, Wedge and anomynus Y-Wing) thats 90% losses.

[nightmare]

I think a friend put it best about Episode one: "Lucas had decades to create and perfect a story for episode one...and the best he could do was...a race?

The race was originally meant to be in ANH.

I'm with Petro, basically. To add a few points (some of which are propably petty):
1. Visuals.
One of the things I liked about the OT was the 'worn' look. The tech is there, izt has been there for freaking forever, people make their living using it. Of course it looks worn. What do I get in TPM? A bloody shiny aluminum Royal Yyacht (which might actually make sense) and freaking bright yellow starfighters. Hello?

Even mature tech have brand new products. It's a royal starship, the fighters are meant to be used for parades and shows, and the whole difference is supposed to be a cultural difference. Tatooine is still dusty.

My pet peeve in TMP is Jar-Jar Binks. And I think the main problem of TPM was the incredible hype before it. SW is returning to the big screen after how may years? Of course it was going to be hyped up to a level no movie could match. I found it a lot more enjoyable when I watched it later on, and I'm not very influenceable to begin with.

The Nemoidian battledroids are incredibly crappy. Thank (insert deity of choice or luck here) they got more of a real army in AOTC. Gungans are ok, but J-J.. bleh. Anakin isn't too bad. It's a kid, not a big, bad Lord of the Sith.

Romance is not a big thing for me in movies, so I like AOTC just fine. They act a bit plastic, but there's nuances you can read a lot into if you want to.

[Companion Cube]

In ANH the whole movie begins with rebels getting their asses handed to them. Lots of rebel troopers kick the bucket in that one. Later when the rebels attack the DS, 80% of the attacking fighters are destroyed.

In ESB a lot of rebels get wasted on Hoth. Solo is tortured by Vader just for shits and giggles. In general things aren't looking so hot.


-Gunhead

Well, ROTS looks like it'll be continuing this trend.

[Gunhead]

We can only hope. AotC was little better than PM, mostly because the the clone army and their gear was pretty well done. Not to forget the fact they swooped down to save poor dumb jedis who were about to get their asses raped.

-Gunhead

[Karza]

What bothered me in the new SWs:

EP I:
-Gungans (every single one of them)
-Everything that happened on Tatooine (except the first Qui-Gon vs Maul fight )
-Naboo starfighters (fine, they are brand new, well maintained or whatever, but they still look too shiny)
-Battle droids (Roger roger! AAARRGH! Bloody Donald Duck -robots )
-Final battle that truly sucked donkey balls (except of course for the Maul vs Q-G and O-W fight)

EP II:
-Hayden Christensen
-Truly disgusting romance scenes (everything in them sucked. Every-goddamn-thing)
-Hayden Christensen
-Swordfights which looked like there were no Jedi involved, merely actors going through pre-planned motions .
-Hayden Christensen (Yes, he really deserves to be mentioned three times)

In a summary: EP I was crap, except for the final swordfight. EP II is a bit harder to define. The romance stuff was awful, but other than that the story rolled towards the final battle quite nicely. The final swordfights disappointed me thoroughly however (mind you, Yoda really rocked until he started to bounce around with the lightsaber), so my final feeling for the movie was ambivalence.

EP III trailer got me counting days to its release, although there is the possibility that the scenes in the trailer were the only ones worth watching... I'm cautiously optimistical about that one.

EDIT: fixed a single truly ghastly typo.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Part of the problem is that the stilted, genteel, emotionally distant, and somewhat postured behaviour and speech patterns of the Old Republic (which are intended to be somewhat reminiscent of the Gilded Age of aristocracy on Earth) is seen as a product of incompetence rather than a deliberate choice. So people rant and rave about how lousy and stilted the acting is. I wonder if these same people walk out of a Shakespeare play saying "who the hell uses all of these thous and thees and forsooths and other horribly wooden speech patterns"?

And before you mock me for comparing Lucas and Shakespeare, let me remind you that Shakespeare's idea of a romance was Romeo and Juliet. Just try reading that fucking piece of tripe someday as if you expected those characters to act like real people.

But I don't want to watch Shakespeare when I watch a new Star wars movie. If you're right and the stiff acting was a stylistic choice, then it was a bad choice.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, Anakin was raised by monks, so it's not too surprising he isn't very smooth in the romance department.

"Sand is rough. You're soft."
"OH ANAKIN!"

C'mon. Raised by monks my ass. The writing SUCKED.

EDIT: But yeah, I have to agree that the problem was the pacing/settings maybe, not the story itself. Anakin as a kid? Whatever. Jar Jar? Ugh, but whatever. What we have in AotC, THAT is cringeworthy, they just HAVE to stop by every planet that's every been named in the trilogy, both old and new, for 3 seconds before heading for the next. What's the point of that?

[Sothis]

I may be signing my own death warrant here, but I found Jar Jar to be quite funny. Though I agree, it would be fantastic to see him die in Episode 3.

Episode 1 just felt... well... flat. Sterile. None of th magic or danger or excitment of the original triology.

Episode 2: Well, the romantic scenes were painful to watch. Whatever the intention or context that we're supposed to accept them in, they are horrible, cheesey and detract from the movie.

[Elfdart]

Well, Anakin was raised by monks, so it's not too surprising he isn't very smooth in the romance department.

"Sand is rough. You're soft."
"OH ANAKIN!"

C'mon. Raised by monks my ass. The writing SUCKED.

EDIT: But yeah, I have to agree that the problem was the pacing/settings maybe, not the story itself. Anakin as a kid? Whatever. Jar Jar? Ugh, but whatever. What we have in AotC, THAT is cringeworthy, they just HAVE to stop by every planet that's every been named in the trilogy, both old and new, for 3 seconds before heading for the next. What's the point of that?

They're supposed to be cringeworthy -like watching the two biggest nerds dancing at the prom. In the very first scene when Anakin and Padme meet and Anakin is rambling about how beautiful she is, you can see her bodyguard rolling his eyes and trying not to snicker. This is like saying True Grit was bad because Mattie Ross was such a dorky, annoying character. She was supposed to be.

[Galvatron]

When the only defense of the prequels boils down to "they were supposed to be awkward and stilted," that's when I question Lucas's decision-making. They didn't have to be like that.

[Fire Fly]

Bad things about the prequels:

-Crappy acting. The romance scenes between Hayden Christansen and Natalie Portman were very awkward and felt forced. They're both good actors but much of their acting in the prequel needs serious work. In the OT, the romance between Han and Leia was more organic and real; it wasn't rushed and it was well developed.

-The story is too fast paced and it doesn't help when Lucas tends to like lots and lots of pretty pictures. In the OT, this is evident in ANH; although a great movie, it really lacked the grand operatic themes that TESB had. In the prequels, I everything just felt very, very action packed. In such movies, the story tends to take a backseat. TESB is a classic example of balanced story and action. Everything has a purpose that only helps to enhance the other.

-Jar Jar. No more needed. I actually didn't mind him per se, but he could have been portrayed in a more dignified manner rather than just stupid funny.

Those are really the main issues I have with the prequels so far. They're ok overall but there are so many little things that could have made them great. For example, in AOTC, when Dooku is talking with Obi-Wan prior to the area scene, it would have been better (imo) if Dooku was actually a good guy who began the secessionist movement because he knew that a sith lord had taken over the republic, as he explained it to Obi-Wan originally in the movie. Imo, it would've continued along with the OT in having the second movie with a big plot twist and ending with the 3rd with giant battles between armies and navies.

[Elfdart]

When the only defense of the prequels boils down to "they were supposed to be awkward and stilted," that's when I question Lucas's decision-making. They didn't have to be like that.

Sure, he could have made Anakin and Padme into two fairly well-adjusted teens who fall in love like John Cusack and Ione Skye in Say Anything. But if Anakin and Padme aren't fucked up youths who fall too hard in love, then there isn't much potential for Palpatine to sink his hooks into Anakin. Like any tragic figure, Anakin Skywalker has serious flaws as a human being and so does Padme.

[Dahak]

When the only defense of the prequels boils down to "they were supposed to be awkward and stilted," that's when I question Lucas's decision-making. They didn't have to be like that.

Sure, he could have made Anakin and Padme into two fairly well-adjusted teens who fall in love like John Cusack and Ione Skye in Say Anything. But if Anakin and Padme aren't fucked up youths who fall too hard in love, then there isn't much potential for Palpatine to sink his hooks into Anakin. Like any tragic figure, Anakin Skywalker has serious flaws as a human being and so does Padme.

Serious flaws in character don't have to mean serious flaws in acting...
And Natalie Portman is capable of much, much more, and Hayden certainly must have more than the three facial expressions he wore.
GL isn't the first one to have a love story between seriously flawed characters and "first loive" thing, and those other directors managed to make it believable and not cringe-inducing...

[Galvatron]

Personally, I would have played up Anakin's disillusionment with the corrupt Republic combined with his drive to bring order to the wartorn galaxy as his primary motivation for turning against the Jedi and wielding the power of the dark side in support of the Emperor.

I would have avoided the "forbidden romance leads to tragedy" angle like the plague.

[Elfdart]

Serious flaws in character don't have to mean serious flaws in acting...
And Natalie Portman is capable of much, much more, and Hayden certainly must have more than the three facial expressions he wore.
GL isn't the first one to have a love story between seriously flawed characters and "first loive" thing, and those other directors managed to make it believable and not cringe-inducing...

How are the prequels supposed to keep the same campy, tongue-in-cheek tone of the originals if Lucas introduces Method?

[Galvatron]

How are the prequels supposed to keep the same campy, tongue-in-cheek tone of the originals if Lucas introduces Method?

The same way he did with ANH: the droids (without overdoing it).

[Cabwi Desco]

:Snip:

Right. Get a Life. And get back to me when you have an argument that depends on something other than insults and name calling.

[Sam Or I]

I'm not particularly interested in a hero without an origin, and I don't imagine many other people are either. Why do you think the most popular superheroes all have clearly-established, well-known origin stories? Simply presenting us with a 20-year old Anakin Skywalker and painting "hero" over him would not have worked. There needs to be something invested in the character.

I disagree with this statement. I mean look at the most uber wanked comic book character of all times, Wolverine. Now what exactly is his orgin again. Hell, I would say almost about 80% of "mythical" heros have to discover there orgins. (Most are adopted, or there parents left them, everything from Moses, to Luke Skywalker himself.) Thats what the Phantom Mense could have been about.

[Galvatron]

I disagree with this statement. I mean look at the most uber wanked comic book character of all times, Wolverine. Now what exactly is his orgin again. Hell, I would say almost about 80% of "mythical" heros have to discover there orgins. (Most are adopted, or there parents left them, everything from Moses, to Luke Skywalker himself.) Thats what the Phantom Mense could have been about.

I'd rather keep Anakin's childhood unseen. Likewise for Boba Fett.

[Freeman's Trigger-Finger]

Things that pissed me of with the TPM:

Lack of assigned character roles (Obi Wan had absoloutley nothing to do for a great deal of the movie)

Jar Jar Binks (I dont know whether Lucas was attempting to fill the void that Chewbacca had left - suffice to say for all intents and purposes it failed)

Underused Maul (While I fear this will also be a problem for Grievious in ROTS, it was more prevelant here, in that we were at a loss for any real villain with the exception of the Emporer)

Things that pissed me of with AOTC:

Stupid one liners by 3PO

Overall, I really like AOTC, perhaps alot more than most on this board.

[White Haven]

Two movies of Anakin being played and written horribly. You know, the FOCUS OF THE STORY. Drove me up the wall.

And as an aside, for the love of GOURD, it's E M P E R O R. Sorry, but I see that typo sooo often.

[Sam Or I]

I'd rather keep Anakin's childhood unseen. Likewise for Boba Fett.

I personally think that would have worked as well. The unanswered questions are alot of times what DRAWS us to the character.

Nothing is told of Han Solos past, besides that he is a smuggler. (Speaking of just the movies). Yet he is one of the most well liked chaacters in the OT.

[Lord Pounder]

In all seriousness the major problem is that they wheren't the OT. When the originals came out peoples expectations where a lot lower than they are now, there was no internet to give out spoilers and or raise peoples hopes. Star Wars was a very original concept and at the time it didn't have as much competition. Since then, there have been some pretty awsome movies made and we expect so much more from a Holywood movie.

Lucas very obviously making shit up as he goes along doesn't help either.

[Slartibartfast]

They're supposed to be cringeworthy -like watching the two biggest nerds dancing at the prom.

That is, of course, the most common apologist reply every time the grating romance scenes are mentioned. "It's supposed to suck because they're inexperienced!" I think there are a lot of better "kid romance" movies out there, where the whole "inexperienced first love" thing is done well without the vomit-inducing dialogue.

In the very first scene when Anakin and Padme meet and Anakin is rambling about how beautiful she is, you can see her bodyguard rolling his eyes and trying not to snicker.

I've seen movies where the boy who is trying to woo the girl is lame, and it's obvious, and a point is made about how lame his pickup lines are. Dorky in a cute way, maybe. But there's none of that in TPM, merely BAD romance.

[Elfdart]

I don't remember any romance in TPM, just Padme grinning at Anakin because he's "a funny little boy".