Someone on TFN has the ICS- extracts, no firepower- spoiler?

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-24 08:52pm

Firefox wrote: You had said the Acclamator's bridge is vulnerable because it's at the tip of the bridge pod. I thought it was positioned further aft than that. I will admit that it's not as protected as an ISD bridge, however.

Actually I was talking about the bridge of a Venator if it was in one of the pods. Follow it back, in the thread. Still it' easy to get confused.

Firefox wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote:Everytime we've looked out of An ISD bridge it's been through viewports. What Holographic display on the Devastator?
According to Saxton, it does.

Well personally I always thought that was a gunnery station, however cannon takes precedent so if the novel says the bridge... However I think that the black rectangle in the middle f the Conning tower is the front port and the viewscreen can project on it as required. After all as I said before, if the power goes or the lines are damaged you need to be able to see out as a last resort. Either way the bridge is well protected deep in the Conning tower.

I think the pods are larger versions of the arrays you can see in the picture on Saxtons page you linked. Just turned through 90 degree's and smaller due to tech/design advances.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 09:00pm

Rob Wilson wrote:Actually I was talking about the bridge of a Venator if it was in one of the pods. Follow it back, in the thread. Still it' easy to get confused.

Indeed.

Well personally I always thought that was a gunnery station, however cannon takes precedent so if the novel says the bridge... However I think that the black rectangle in the middle f the Conning tower is the front port and the viewscreen can project on it as required. After all as I said before, if the power goes or the lines are damaged you need to be able to see out as a last resort. Either way the bridge is well protected deep in the Conning tower.

Actually, I couldn't agree more. I think it's a little dumb to rely on such electronics when the redundancy of a viewport would be crucial when faced with power loss. And given that a bridge with a viewport can be damaged by external attack, if given a one-in-a-billion shot, there are auxiliary stations to take over.

I think the pods are larger versions of the arrays you can see in the picture on Saxtons page you linked. Just turned through 90 degree's and smaller due to tech/design advances.

I've thought about that, and it looks like they're trying to give the impression of the OT scanner globes, except they're only visible that way from the front or rear. I simply think one or both serve as a bridge since they're almost identical in design to the Acclamator's bridge pod, and I can't identify a bridge module below on the superstructure.

I guess I'm not the only one waiting for the RotS ICS.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-03-24 09:07pm

Y'know, who says the two towers are bridges for sure? They could very well be just sensor towers. If you look further down, something that is a much better candidate for a 'bridge' is easily discerned:

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 09:13pm

That's what we're debating. Considering the different ideas floating around, I've conceded to waiting until the ICS comes out, although that might be the location. It's just a bit unorthodox from everything else I've seen as far as SDs are concerned.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-24 09:14pm

McC wrote:Y'know, who says the two towers are bridges for sure? They could very well be just sensor towers. If you look further down, something that is a much better candidate for a 'bridge' is easily discerned:

Thingy

That looks like a forward gun position to me.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-24 09:17pm

Firefox wrote: I've thought about that, and it looks like they're trying to give the impression of the OT scanner globes, except they're only visible that way from the front or rear. I simply think one or both serve as a bridge since they're almost identical in design to the Acclamator's bridge pod, and I can't identify a bridge module below on the superstructure.

I guess I'm not the only one waiting for the RotS ICS.

And there's the crux, they do slightly resemble the Acclamator pod, so the Art Majors (curse them) could have easily decided to do that

- hence my earlier post on that.

I'm just pointing out that militarily they are a bad idea... very bad idea.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 09:23pm

You're right. It seems as though along with the PD guns with small gunports in the trailer and the AT-RT's exposed rider, they seem interested in making things more dangerous for Republic forces. I just wondered how to rationalize such (lack of) safety standards.

As for McC's revelation and your disagreement on that object on the superstructure dorsal spine.... I'll keep out of that one.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-24 09:31pm

Firefox wrote:You're right. It seems as though along with the PD guns with small gunports in the trailer and the AT-RT's exposed rider, they seem interested in making things more dangerous for Republic forces. I just wondered how to rationalize such (lack of) safety standards.

IN general they've been pretty good with the capships, the only real glaring ones have been teh exposed reactors and lack of ventral guns on the ISD's. It's the fighters that are worrying, looks first, rationalise later sees to be the approach with some of them. I'm just hoping this hasn't spread to the big ships.

It could well be that the Venator was discontinued because of design flaws, or it's an interim design before they settle on the ISD.

Firefox wrote:As for McC's revelation and your disagreement on that object on the superstructure dorsal spine.... I'll keep out of that one.

All that's needed there is a better resolution picture. I think I can see 2 prongs/barrels coming off the side of th object he IDed, or due to resolution they could be the superstructure continuing down each side of windows for a bridge. I think it looks more like a gun though.

Damn Lucasfilm, give us a high-res pic of the ship.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 09:39pm

The ventral face probably doesn't need the HTL batteries so much as more MTL and LTL emplacements, protection from starfighters and smaller capships. I'm also bugged by the lack of cover for the rear of the ship.

As for the Venator, I'm waiting for high-res shots for detailing the Revell kit when it comes out, as well as resolving these niggling questions.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-24 09:45pm

Firefox wrote:The ventral face probably doesn't need the HTL batteries so much as more MTL and LTL emplacements, protection from starfighters and smaller capships. I'm also bugged by the lack of cover for the rear of the ship.

Personally I'd like there to be at least 2 HTL turets on the ventral face so it can press an opponent while manouevring. But it definitely needs MTL's there for pretty much the same reason - Hell it has it's 2 biggest weak points there, the Hangar and the Reactor, put some guns on that side so you can disaude assualt from that vector.

Firefox wrote:As for the Venator, I'm waiting for high-res shots for detailing the Revell kit when it comes out, as well as resolving these niggling questions.

Well the ICS should answer the Bridge question, but yeah some high-res shots for modelling would be great.

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2005-03-28 07:09pm

Ok, I went to books a million today and they had a copy of the ICS available. Of course, I picked it up. I'm working on some pics since I have no scanner. But until then here are my initial observations. I'll start with the Venator SD.

Venator

-If you've seen the most recent clone wars season you will know that the Venator is shown having a long ventral flight deck underneath the red paint stripe. That is the case in the book. I guess that's why the thing can hold so many fighters.

-The side doors are large cargo doors for docking with space stations and starships.

-Apparently, the long hanger deck leaves the ship very vunerable when launching fighters. A flaw that will be corrected in future star destroyers.

-The Venator's main guns are called DBY-827 heavy turbolasers. They are capable of hitting target vessels at distances over ten light minutes, while the turret can rotate in three seconds in it's close in, fast tracking mode. As a true warship it can feed it's full reactor output into it's guns when needed.

-The port tower contains the starfighter control bridge, the starboard tower the helm and command bridge.

Working on more.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 07:13pm

-The port tower contains the starfighter control bridge, the starboard tower the helm and command bridge.

That's been a nagging thought in my head for some time, but I wasn't quite sure of it. Thanks for the tip.

Now, scans/photos!

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-03-28 07:13pm

Clone Sergeant wrote:-The port tower contains the starfighter control bridge, the starboard tower the helm and command bridge.

Working on more.

AHA! It's explained at Last! The Mystery of the Dual Bridges! ((thinks it over)) you know, knowing thats what it is.. thats actually an acceptable reason for two bridges.
<_<
>_>
I guess...

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2005-03-28 07:16pm

Here are some pics of the CIS and Republic technology descriptions.

+http://img108.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img108& ... 3910ip.jpg

+http://img204.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img204& ... 3924ka.jpg

Please save them to your hdd and mirror them if they go down.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-03-28 07:17pm

Clone Sergeant wrote:-The Venator's main guns are called DBY-827 heavy turbolasers. They are capable of hitting target vessels at distances over ten light minutes, while the turret can rotate in three seconds in it's close in, fast tracking mode. As a true warship it can feed it's full reactor output into it's guns when needed.

Oh, to have a weapons range debate with Trekkies now. 10 light minutes is 180 million kilometers!

Yet another issue the ICS manages to seal off against the Trekkies

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-28 07:18pm

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find a quote about Base Delta Zero. Copy-type it, and post it here. I love hearing about Base Delta Zero.

I was wondering about that long flight-deck in Clone Wars Ep 23 ...

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-28 07:22pm

Clone Sergeant wrote: -The port tower contains the starfighter control bridge, the starboard tower the helm and command bridge.

So the Bridge can't see anything happening on the lefthand side of the ship, and the Starfighter Control can't see the Entrance/exit or even flightdeck.

Bloody art majors!

And Firefox, looks like you were right.

Now excuse me while I go to California and education the Lucasfilm designers on the finer points of Military design... maybe by bashing their heads against a real warship or something.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-28 07:24pm

Rob Wilson wrote: So the Bridge can't see anything happening on the lefthand side of the ship, and the Starfighter Control can't see the Entrance/exit or even flightdeck.

I think Starfighter control is more concerned with commanding the starfighter groups in combat than taking care of take-offs and landings and some such. I'm sure they have air traffic control on the actual flight deck for that.

Also, you couldn't see the left or right hand side of the ship from the bridge of an ordinary Star Destroyer. Its really not necessary. They probably have cameras for that.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 07:27pm

Indeed, looks like another flaw that's corrected with the ISD tower design. I figured if the bridge was in one of the pods, it wouldn't matter since they would use holographics to compensate. Of course, if there's a power loss, yeah, bye-bye C&C.

Meanwhile, it's interesting that starfighters are coordinated from the other tower. Also, any mention that the side bays can be used to deploy fighters, or are they dedicated supply loading docks?

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2005-03-28 07:28pm

No BDZ quote yet. I've only read the Venator page plus I'm working on pics.

Some Venator pics and V-wing specs:

+http://img88.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img88&im ... 3950eg.jpg
Sorry about the blur on that one.

+http://img88.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img88&im ... 3968mx.jpg

+http://img88.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img88&im ... 3978ty.jpg

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 07:28pm

Also, you couldn't see the left or right hand side of the ship from the bridge of an ordinary Star Destroyer. Its really not necessary. They probably have cameras for that.

I thought that was the assumption for the port and starboard bridge viewport alcoves?

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2005-03-28 07:29pm

Clone Sergeant wrote: -The Venator's main guns are called DBY-827 heavy turbolasers. They are capable of hitting target vessels at distances over ten light minutes, while the turret can rotate in three seconds in it's close in, fast tracking mode. As a true warship it can feed it's full reactor output into it's guns when needed.

F*cking awesome! Does it say whether or not this range can be used to fire on other moving ships, or is it just able to fire on stationary targets?

EDIT: Posted before I saw those links. Question answered. Thanks.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-28 07:32pm

There are bridge viewports, from the looks of it! They wrap around the front of the pod. In that case, either they rely on viewscreens for viewing to port, or they're blind to that side.

Clone Sergeant · Post by **Clone Sergeant** » 2005-03-28 07:38pm

More venator:

+http://img88.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img88&im ... 3989jh.jpg
Kinda blurry but you can see the flight deck.

+http://img88.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img88&im ... 3995wx.jpg

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2005-03-28 07:40pm

Vympel wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: So the Bridge can't see anything happening on the lefthand side of the ship, and the Starfighter Control can't see the Entrance/exit or even flightdeck.
I think Starfighter control is more concerned with commanding the starfighter groups in combat than taking care of take-offs and landings and some such. I'm sure they have air traffic control on the actual flight deck for that.

And they are horribly exposed, there's no need for them to be all the way up there. There's no reason for them not to be based either in the Hangar, or at the back of the normal bridge.

Vympel wrote:Also, you couldn't see the left or right hand side of the ship from the bridge of an ordinary Star Destroyer. Its really not necessary. They probably have cameras for that.

Actually the Bridge window is a Bay design so you can see to left and right on a ISD 2 as can be clearly seen in the Falcon's attack on the Avenger. When Needa and officer duck down there is a very noticable arc to the Bridge window.

When power's at a premium in combat and ECm is rampant you want to actually be able to see what's out there without having to rely on technology.