Someone on TFN has the ICS- extracts, no firepower- spoiler?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Didn't we already go over that?

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I thought Imperator fit due to the vessel's omnipresence... it may not be the biggest ship around, but it's the biggest one most people will see. A true symbol of Imperial might.

Just a personal opinion, though...

[AniThyng]

and now we know the reason for black shirt officers as well. cool.

[Chris OFarrell]

I take it that was taking the piss out of the situation the VFX guys were in for constantly having to make explosions for staff blasts, Alkesh bombs, staff cannons, plastic explosives, etc etc ad infinitum.

The entire EPISODE was them taking the piss out of themselves.

I mean the insane director in that 'bigger' sketch was in fact Peter DeLuise (AKA Dagwood from Seaquest)...who directed the episode. And 'Colonel Daring' is his bro!

Iwon't clutter up this thread anymore, but go here:

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s5/512.shtml and scroll to the bottom where they have a large listing of most of the in jokes. There are *plenty* of them poking fun at themselves.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Battlecruiser. Which (sorta) works, but battlecruisers are still rather more common than battleships. Battlecruisers were generally either really big cruisers or scaled-down battleships (the so called "pocket battleships" for example.)

Not really. Battlecruisers were consistently larger-than-battleship vessels stretched to accomodate larger and more powerful engines to increase top speed and range while sacrificing some protection (compared to the battleship) in order to lighten the vessel and further increase speed. They generally mounted weaponry equivalent to contemporary battleships. That's why I always prefered the "battlecruiser" classification for the Executor; its rare, its big, it has huge engines, it obviously can keep up for the most part with smaller, nimble ships operationally, like in TESB, and its protection isn't all that good for being as large as it is.

The vessels you're describing were all simply really large heavy cruisers and nothing more (the Panzerschieff ("pocket battleships") and Alaska-class large cruisers are both examples).

Its the battleship- or nearly-battleship-grade weaponry with emphasis on speed and deemphasis on protection relative to a battleship that characterizes it as unique. The last true battlecruiser was HMS Hood, which was much larger than the comparable battleship class of HIMS Revenge. I always thought it odd that Saxton fell for the misconception that battlecruisers were smaller and more numerous than battleships, particularly when the definition on the TC is pretty straightforward as to what I've been saying "a ship with the heaviest guns, but sacrificing smaller size and armor for greater speed."

[Connor MacLeod]

Since I don't have the OT ICS, does it give a range for the Imperator class? 60,000 ly seems really short-legged for the Venator. Unless they're based out in or near the Outer Rim, that implies they rely a lot on tanker support to get around.

Most of these warships have originated as very short-ranged vessels to begin with. Besides which, given that huge-ass hangar facility, the Venator generally should be expected to give *something* up (such as hyperdrive range.)

Something like an ISD, with less dedicated fighter capacity, can obviously jump to far grreater ranges.

[Gorefiend]

and now we know the reason for black shirt officers as well. cool.

The problem is, we see other officers that have black shirts as well, that don’t seem to be pilots, or clones. One is a Moff in fact, from the black fleet crises novel series.

Most of these warships have originated as very short-ranged vessels to begin with. Besides which, given that huge-ass hangar facility, the Venator generally should be expected to give *something* up (such as hyperdrive range.)

Something like an ISD, with less dedicated fighter capacity, can obviously jump to far grreater ranges.

Aside from some real armament that is, I mean it’s not going to kill much with those 10 odd turbolasers and 4 lauchers . In fact the Victory series had far more firepower with it’s 20 launchers, and 30 turbolasers. Assuming their weapons are of similar scale, which is not that unlikely, as they are ships from the same era and of similar size.

[Connor MacLeod]

Various details (still keeping up)

Separatist ships

Banking clan frigate apparently annihilates 2,300 tons of fuel per second (2.3e6 kg.) This translates to an energy output of 2e23 joules each second (100% efficiency)

The banking clan frigate entry also mentions "shield heat sinks and active neutrino radiators."

Support destroyer can annihilate 8,600 tons of fuel per second (7.74e23 watts)

Frigate sensor range: "Several light days"

6.62e7 gigatons works out to some 2.77e26 joules Given the frigate's stated output, it probably takes some time for those prow mounted HTLs to power up, especially given the probable mass/acceleration figures (just for comparison, 2e26 joules is about an order of magnitude less than the probable power output of an Executor-class.)

[Crossroads Inc.]

and now we know the reason for black shirt officers as well. cool.

Where was this mentioned? I'd really like an explanation for the whole thing between ROTS and ANH.

[Connor MacLeod]

The question would be how many shots it would take for those guns to melt the asteroid. 6.620E7 is a crapload more than the Acclamator's 200 gigaton guns.

Offhand guess? 10-15 minutes worth of shots.

[Connor MacLeod]

ICS wrote:
Two huge turbolaser cannons can blast-melt an ice moon measuring 1,000 kilometers (621 miles) in diameter, or pierce the shields of a 10 km-wide (6.2 mile-wide) Grade III battle station.

What kind of pussy battle station is this? It can get bitch slapped by a ship less than 10% of its length, and probably only a minute fraction of its volume. That has to use a portion of its interior space for propulsion systems, no less.

Its not "pussy" in the least. 10 of those ships can (in a single volley) put out firepower we'd expect from an Executor class (of course, they require a long-ass recharge time afterwards...)

[Gorefiend]

Where was this mentioned?

It's in the entry for the arc fighter, it says that successful voluntary fighter pilots were cloned and dressed in black. I just assumed that they were given the black tie fighter pilot suites and uniforms.

I'd really like an explanation for the whole thing between ROTS and ANH.

For the Imperator to Imperial thing?
Well I think palpi properly did not think it to nice to have his title stuck on something that was not the biggest ship in the fleet, so he had the name changed.

In fact it was just a typical Saxton thing to do, he did not like the rest of Star Wars calling it Imperial-class so he called it the Imperator to get his way, at least he is nice enough to admit that everyone else called it Imperial class and that that is the name it runs under in the Empire.

[Connor MacLeod]

More random stuff:

Apparently Anakin shoots out the "atmospheric containment shields" - somehow implying it was neccesary to do so in order to breach. (I'm not sure if that makes sense though.)

Invisible hand: "Thousands of republic battleships engage the craft" - WTF?

"Point defense ion cannon delivers as much heat per shot as 4.8 megaton bomb"

(Said of planet Invisible hand was built on) "The planet was recently devastated with radioactivity and frractured to the core by a cataclysmic hyperspace accident involving the Republic's Star Battlecruiser Quaestor." - Fracturing? Probably around e10-e11 megatons (about what Mike estimated the Eclipse superlaser at, low end, IIRC) Pity its from a hyperspace mishap.

Invisible Hand apparently can annihilate up to 12,000 tons of fuel per second (1.08e24 watts)

[AniThyng]

The problem is, we see other officers that have black shirts as well, that don’t seem to be pilots, or clones. One is a Moff in fact, from the black fleet crises novel series.

well, there's no reason why the Moff couldn't have been a template pilot in his younger days, and aren't the other black shirts stormtrooper officers? that'll fit in nicely with teh clone aspect as it is

[Connor MacLeod]

"Juggernauts are designed to deliver tremendous firepower in order to overwhelm well-shielded military structures, some of which can withstand a lone Juggernaut's barrage for hours. However, with an unshielded target, a Juggernaut can blast the heat of a nuclear bomb into one small spot, creating a blazing fireball"

[Gorefiend]

Apparently Anakin shoots out the "atmospheric containment shields" - somehow implying it was neccesary to do so in order to breach. (I'm not sure if that makes sense though.)

Well it is the thing that prevents things from passing through the hangar out into space, if they did not have a containment shield of some kind, the contents of the bay would just go floating off by themselves. The problem is they later land in the same bay and actually walk around in it, in the comic at least.

[Gorefiend]

well, there's no reason why the Moff couldn't have been a template pilot in his younger days, and aren't the other black shirts stormtrooper officers? that'll fit in nicely with teh clone aspect as it is

In don’t think the emperor would allow a clone to become one of his moffs, though I admit it was a while after the emperors death, so he might not have picked that one himself, non the less there are many black uniformed officers that aren’t clones. Biggs, Fel, Tycho, Solo etc. all wore black because they were pilots, not because they were clones.

[Connor MacLeod]

Not really. Battlecruisers were consistently larger-than-battleship vessels stretched to accomodate larger and more powerful engines to increase top speed and range while sacrificing some protection (compared to the battleship) in order to lighten the vessel and further increase speed.

Don't you mean 'larger than cruiser" vessels?

They generally mounted weaponry equivalent to contemporary battleships. That's why I always prefered the "battlecruiser" classification for the Executor; its rare, its big, it has huge engines, it obviously can keep up for the most part with smaller, nimble ships operationally, like in TESB, and its protection isn't all that good for being as large as it is.

Battlecruiser still wouldn't have worked for the Executor, given its multi-function nature (maybe a hybrid like the Lexington-class battlecruiser-carrier or something like the japanese Ise-class hybrid battleship/carrier..)

As for protection, how is that certain? With the existence of shields, one does not neccesarily have to trade speed for protection/durability (and the Executor's shields would seem to be considered exceptionally powerful for its size/class, given the Archie Goodwin comics.)

Besides, since acceleration tends to be one of the most power-intensive feats for any Star Wars ship (second only to weapons), you could increase the acceleration of any "battleship" simply by decreasing its mass. In fact, thats one of the few ways a SW ship of a given class is generally *going* to improve its acceleration is by reducing its mass in some ways.

The vessels you're describing were all simply really large heavy cruisers and nothing more (the Panzerschieff ("pocket battleships") and Alaska-class large cruisers are both examples).

The Japanese (and apparently the Germans, if my naval-historian acquaintance told it to me right) considered Battlecruisers to be scaled down battleships. (Kongo-class for example. ) So yes, there are cases where battlecruisers were largely 'scaled-down' battleships.

In fact, as time progressed, the distinction between battleships and battlecruisers tended to merge (resulting in "fast battleships", such as the Scharnhorst.) Hence, my comment.

[Connor MacLeod]

More quantification:

Based on the Recuscant-class destroyers, I estimate a Venator/Victory-class probably has a max reactor output of between 3.1e24 and 4.644e24 watts. This means that each TL turret on the Venator can unleash between 3.87e23 and 5.81e23 joules of energy (per twin turret, not per barrel.) each second.

A Mandator's reactor output/max firepower is something along the lines of 7.74e26 watts (1000x the firepower of a single Recusant.)

[Clone Sergeant]

Which reminds me. Clone Sergeant, who was the editor for this book?

And were there any credits mentioned at the back? I wonder if they changed editors or something and that person is to blame for the lack of stats.

The editor was a Mr. Neil Kelly, while the AOTC ICS was edited by Simon Beecroft.

[Connor MacLeod]

Which reminds me. Clone Sergeant, who was the editor for this book?

And were there any credits mentioned at the back? I wonder if they changed editors or something and that person is to blame for the lack of stats.

The editor was a Mr. Neil Kelly, while the AOTC ICS was edited by Simon Beecroft.

Thats what I thought. Given that Beecroft collaborated with Curtis on the (I think) AOTC:ITW book, we could assume that any problems probably lie with this editor.

So what about the credits?

Oh yeh, and while I'm making unreasonable demands, any chance of getting a close-up of the "point defense laser" on the Venator? It looks like an external mount (which is what I'm hoping for.)

[Connor MacLeod]

And whats the fuel-annihilation rate on the Venator? it looks double digit (20,000? 40,000?)

[Clone Sergeant]

And whats the fuel-annihilation rate on the Venator? it looks double digit (20,000? 40,000?)

40.000 tons per second at max power. Working on a pic of Saxton's credits and the point defense guns.

[Crossroads Inc.]

You know, I may never ever get to see a REAL Victory class SD, but with this new book it should be realtivly easy to fully estimate it's properties.

[Dahak]

And whats the fuel-annihilation rate on the Venator? it looks double digit (20,000? 40,000?)

40.000 tons per second at max power. Working on a pic of Saxton's credits and the point defense guns.

Is there something said about the volume that fuel takes up?
At the rates they're burning through the stuff, they must have huge bunker space for it on the ships...