Clones cannot make up the crews of Acclamators/Venators

Alexus · Post by **Alexus** » 2005-03-30 02:11pm

Venator Class:

length: 1,137 meters
548 m wingspan
max acceleration: 3000 G
hyperdrive class 1.0
crew: 7400
armament: 8 heavy turbolaser turrets, 2 medium dual turbolaser cannons, 52 point-defense laser cannons, 4 proton torpedo tubes, 6 tractor beam projectors.
complement: 192 V-Wing fighters, 192 Eta-2 Actis Interceptors, 36 ARC-170 Fighters, 24 military walkers, 40 LAAT/i gunships and misc. shuttles.

And the Acclamator carries 16,000 clonetroopers.

If half the clones were actually fighting and the rest were crewing the Republic could only have 81 Venators. (Assuming 1.2 million clones all together)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-30 02:13pm

1.2 million clones has been amended by LFL. Expect to see it phased out in the future.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2005-03-30 02:18pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:1.2 million clones has been amended by LFL. Expect to see it phased out in the future.

Really? Not questioning this but Im just curious since I allways thought the number was silly beyond belief. How the fuck could the Republic fight a war on even a couple of worlds with only that many troops, when yet accounting for those it takes to crew their ships, ludicrous.

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-30 03:15pm

1.2 million clones has been amended by LFL.

Where did that number come from anyway and when did LFL change it?

I just thought they started drafting system militias and training new recruits as well, not just stuffing their clones into everything, which they actually seemed to do.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-30 03:16pm

The number came from Salvatore, the idiot responsible for deciding unit = individual in the AOTC novelisation. This was carried over into The Battle of Kamino and Stover's Shatterpoint. However, apparently higher-ups in LFL have noted that this is inconsistent with the action presented in AOTC, much less the subsequent EU and ROTS.

Alexus · Post by **Alexus** » 2005-03-30 03:17pm

Responding to Gorefiend: One of the Kaminoans (Lama Su I think) says they have 200,000 units ready with a million more well on the way. If a unit is a squad of eight then the figure is still tiny. It's on the main site.

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-30 03:27pm

Ah, ok, I actually thought they had additional once already in training and that the million was just the once that would be ready within a few weeks/months.

I was half asleep watching that movie anyway.

Alexus · Post by **Alexus** » 2005-03-30 03:28pm

Blasphemy! Blasphemy!

Yeah, Ok, so was I.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-03-30 03:33pm

I've always interpreted the 1.2 million units to mean either 1.2 million Battalions, or 1.2 million Regiments.

So whats the official line now then?

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-30 03:40pm

It's on the main site.

Care to pass a link? Can’t find the right part.

Alexus · Post by **Alexus** » 2005-03-30 03:41pm

In the AOTC analysis.

EDIT: Found it.

The Kaminoans say they have produced 200,000 "units", with another million "units" to be ready shortly. It is widely assumed that a "unit" is an individual trooper, however, it should be noted that it might also be a squad, a company, a batallion, or a division. 1.2 million soldiers is a rather small figure for a galactic army, particularly when its principal opposition (battle droids) can be manufactured in factories which pump out many tens of thousands of droids per day.

If it is company then there are about 100,000,000 clonetroopers, If it is battallion, 400,000,000

1.2 million divisions would be six billion. (ish)

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-03-30 05:47pm

Alexus wrote:In the AOTC analysis.

EDIT: Found it.

The Kaminoans say they have produced 200,000 "units", with another million "units" to be ready shortly. It is widely assumed that a "unit" is an individual trooper, however, it should be noted that it might also be a squad, a company, a batallion, or a division. 1.2 million soldiers is a rather small figure for a galactic army, particularly when its principal opposition (battle droids) can be manufactured in factories which pump out many tens of thousands of droids per day.
If it is company then there are about 100,000,000 clonetroopers, If it is battallion, 400,000,000

1.2 million divisions would be six billion. (ish)

That sounds like to me what I had in mind the whole time when they said units in the fist place. A unit in the military rarely refers to only one soldier. It may refer to one in the case of a ship or a tank but not a soldier

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-03-30 05:55pm

Alexus wrote:If it is company then there are about 100,000,000 clonetroopers, If it is battallion, 400,000,000

1.2 million divisions would be six billion. (ish)

I have to agree. 6, Billion for a Galactic army sounds a whole heck of a lot more managable then 1.2 Million. Especially since it can be scaled up to mean 1.2 million Divisions, and not individual troops.

As for the original topic... Non of the leaked screenshots so far has shown any forces OTHER then Clones... While later in the Empier we may eventually seen the implamentation of 'real' troops ((As is seen on Star Destroyers)) For now, sadly... It seems all are Clones.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-03-30 07:20pm

I'm not aware of any quote in the AOTC novelization that "unit" = "1 trooper".

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-03-30 07:37pm

Vympel wrote:I'm not aware of any quote in the AOTC novelization that "unit" = "1 trooper".

I'm not either. When Lama Su talks about it there, she says "units."

Incidentally, even a 6 billion soldier army is very small for a Galactic conflict, but at least it's manageable since the clones are all basically uber-spec-ops caliber soldiers.

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-03-30 08:28pm

There's no way that facility on Kamino could house six billion troopers, much less grow and train them. They would need thousands of such facilities. Of course, for all we know the whole planet is littered with clone grow-ops, and there may be multiple planets involved. Is there anything in the literature about the scope of the Kaminoan operations?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-03-30 08:37pm

Regardless of the number of Clone Troops made, I find it difficult to see them acting as Officers on Naval ships. Sure they can be the Gunners, and Fighter Crew, and maybe some of the NonComms, but the bridge crew would almost certainly be trained recruits.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-03-30 09:29pm

SCRawl wrote:There's no way that facility on Kamino could house six billion troopers, much less grow and train them. They would need thousands of such facilities. Of course, for all we know the whole planet is littered with clone grow-ops, and there may be multiple planets involved. Is there anything in the literature about the scope of the Kaminoan operations?

That building was just one facility. There had to have been more. Do you walk into a Walmart and assume there are no others on earth?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2005-03-30 09:49pm

Jedi Trial and several other EU sources depict the crews of the Republican naval ships; they are not clones. There need be no further dispute on that point.

Edit: Corrected reference from Labyrinth of Evil to Jedi Trial.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-30 09:52pm

Thanks, Julius.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-30 09:53pm

Isolder74 wrote:
SCRawl wrote:There's no way that facility on Kamino could house six billion troopers, much less grow and train them. They would need thousands of such facilities. Of course, for all we know the whole planet is littered with clone grow-ops, and there may be multiple planets involved. Is there anything in the literature about the scope of the Kaminoan operations?
That building was just one facility. There had to have been more. Do you walk into a Walmart and assume there are no others on earth?

Yeah, what we saw in the film was just a small portion of their capital city.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-30 10:32pm

I read an interview with Stover a while back and he was having difficulty with the size of the clone army for whatever book he was writing. He said something like he had to figure out "how a galactic civilization would fight a war with an army only the size of North Korea's."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-30 10:34pm

Well, that would imply an erroneous misconception on Stover's part.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-03-30 10:43pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, that would imply an erroneous misconception on Stover's part.

No it wouldn't. Attitude at the Ranch at that time was to toe the line made by the idiot who wrote the Battle of Kamino comic, which solidified it clearly. It wasn't til later til reason prevailed.

In fact, Strover's frustration reflects a knowledge it ought to be much different, but irrationalist conformity forced his hand.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-30 10:45pm

Okay.