Should the US begin taxing religious institutions?

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

Should the US begin taxing religious institutions?

Yes, it's time churches began contributing just like the rest of us
25
46%
No, religious people are better than everyone else and shouldn't be taxed.
2
4%
Tax the motherfuckers retroactively, so they pay everything they owe.
27
50%
 
Total votes: 54

User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

jegs2 wrote:
pecker wrote:
jegs2 wrote: Which church was responsible for those actions? Calvary Chapel certainly had no hand in them. If you speak of the Roman Catholic church, I've never been a member of that organization, nor do I intend to become one.
Normally when one speaks of the Church, they mean the Roman Catholic.


Well, I and many others don't think of those fellows when we think of church. I could go into my own tirade against what I consider to be a fatally-flawed doctrine within the R.C. church, but this isn't the place for it.

Certainly don't want the actions of my church judged by the misdeeds of the R.C. church. That would be like saying that all Southerners still want slaves.
Going by conventional speaking, when someone says The Church, they mean Roman Catholic. If you mean something else, you should specify (Protestant, Anglican, Bob's Church of Give Me Money)
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
jegs2
Imperial Spook
Posts: 4782
Joined: 2002-08-22 06:23pm
Location: Alabama

Post by jegs2 »

Colonel Olrik wrote:
jegs2 wrote: Well, I and many others don't think of those fellows when we think of church. I could go into my own tirade against what I consider to be a fatally-flawed doctrine within the R.C. church, but this isn't the place for it.
Yeah, right. Even when your fundies have much more power and influence. When they are actually more numerous. When the Pope has recognized Science numerous times and preaches peace, while you have Falwell and worse preaching holy crusades against everyone slightly different.

You do not have the higher ground.
...and that has what to do with what I wrote?
John 3:16-18
Warwolves G2
The University of North Alabama Lions!
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

I'll put it this way: When someone says America, it's infered they mean the United States.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

jegs2 wrote:
Colonel Olrik wrote:
jegs2 wrote: Well, I and many others don't think of those fellows when we think of church. I could go into my own tirade against what I consider to be a fatally-flawed doctrine within the R.C. church, but this isn't the place for it.
Yeah, right. Even when your fundies have much more power and influence. When they are actually more numerous. When the Pope has recognized Science numerous times and preaches peace, while you have Falwell and worse preaching holy crusades against everyone slightly different.

You do not have the higher ground.
...and that has what to do with what I wrote?
Nothing I can see...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
jegs2
Imperial Spook
Posts: 4782
Joined: 2002-08-22 06:23pm
Location: Alabama

Post by jegs2 »

pecker wrote:I'll put it this way: When someone says America, it's infered they mean the United States.
See your point, so I'll consider all future posts of "the church" to mean "the Roman Catholic church"
...unless otherwise specified.
John 3:16-18
Warwolves G2
The University of North Alabama Lions!
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

Did your pastor tell people to vote for Bush because he was anti-abortion? Would your church organize a protest if prostitution were suddenly legalized where you live?
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
HemlockGrey
Fucking Awesome
Posts: 13834
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:21pm

Post by HemlockGrey »

Absolutely not. My pastor actually voted for Gore.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses

"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

Ah, you've got one of those liberal, fake-Christian churches, then? :)
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
HemlockGrey
Fucking Awesome
Posts: 13834
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:21pm

Post by HemlockGrey »

fake-Christian? You mean, non-idiotic, real Christian? Yes.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses

"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
patkelly
Pompous Pedophile Bitch
Posts: 44
Joined: 2002-11-15 10:08pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by patkelly »

If you look closely at religious institutions, you will find they could easily be defined with the Inc. designation. Catholics Inc. or Muslims Inc. or Jews Inc. and so on and so on. The business of religion is highly completive though its tax free status obviously conflicts with the concept of separation of church and state. Not only does such an advantageous status give religion a special designation within government it clearly shows government bias towards religion.

Some would say religious institutions are basically non-profit and therefore entitled to their tax-free status. No doubt the average American would be very pleased to take home the same paycheck as Pat Robinson or live with the opulence of the average rectory.
User avatar
Raptor 597
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3338
Joined: 2002-08-01 03:54pm
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana

Post by Raptor 597 »

I agree, with Patkelly particularly with Fundies, they tax the follower's ass by 10% or more life earnings in most cases thats highway robbery. They certainly need too be taxed excessively especially the Fundie demionations, and they are very slightly, a Baptist Church was taken over not paying taxes a few years ago, go FBI!
Formerly the artist known as Captain Lennox

"To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me." - Sir Isaac Newton
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

Reminds me of Reverend Lovejoy from The Simpsons.

"When we say 'tything,' we mean 10% of gross income, not net. Come on, people, don't make us audit."
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

patkelly wrote:Some would say religious institutions are basically non-profit and therefore entitled to their tax-free status. No doubt the average American would be very pleased to take home the same paycheck as Pat Robinson or live with the opulence of the average rectory.
I agree with your point, but I can't help but laugh whenever I hear the name "rectory". It's so appropriate :)
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

<Clicks Stopwatch>

5 pages for Mike to make an anal sex reference. You're slipping, Mike.
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
data_link
Jedi Master
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2002-11-01 11:55pm
Location: Gone to cry in his milk

Post by data_link »

You know, I don't see why we shouldn't tax religious institutions. They've been taxing our patience for years. :P
data_link has resigned from the board after proving himself to be a relentless strawman-using asshole in this thread and being too much of a pussy to deal with the inevitable flames. Buh-bye.
Antediluvian
Jedi Knight
Posts: 593
Joined: 2002-07-09 08:46pm

Post by Antediluvian »

data_link wrote:You know, I don't see why we shouldn't tax religious institutions. They've been taxing our patience for years. :P
Heh. LoL.

On-Topic: I say tax them.

Everyone else has to pay them, why not them?

Plus, it would cut the legs out from under Pat Robertson and the like, to some degree, and that can't be a bad thing.
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

Actually, when I think about it, I can see A LOT of bad coming from taxing churches.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
Antediluvian
Jedi Knight
Posts: 593
Joined: 2002-07-09 08:46pm

Post by Antediluvian »

pecker wrote:Actually, when I think about it, I can see A LOT of bad coming from taxing churches.
How's that?
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

Antediluvian wrote:
pecker wrote:Actually, when I think about it, I can see A LOT of bad coming from taxing churches.
How's that?
Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.

And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

pecker wrote:
Antediluvian wrote:
pecker wrote:Actually, when I think about it, I can see A LOT of bad coming from taxing churches.
How's that?
Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.


And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?

Yup, equal taxation that goes along with equal representation is what I say. What should make a bunch of story tellers(bad ones at that) so special that they shouldn't pay taxes.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
neoolong
Dead Sexy 'Shroom
Posts: 13180
Joined: 2002-08-29 10:01pm
Location: California

Post by neoolong »

pecker wrote:
Antediluvian wrote:
pecker wrote:Actually, when I think about it, I can see A LOT of bad coming from taxing churches.
How's that?
Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.

And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?

If they fall under the same category as other non-taxed charities, then no.
Member of the BotM. @( !.! )@
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

Knife wrote:
pecker wrote:
Antediluvian wrote: How's that?
Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.


And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?

Yup, equal taxation that goes along with equal representation is what I say. What should make a bunch of story tellers(bad ones at that) so special that they shouldn't pay taxes.
Because the majority of the world disagrees that they're just storytellers.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Post by Durandal »

If you own property, it gets taxed. Period.

Here's a big problem with tax-exempting churches. It necessitates that the government deem what is and is not an "official" religion, which is establishing religion. If I wanted the property taxes on my house to be waived because I say it's a Sun-Worshipping Church, the government would tell me to go fuck myself, thus elevating Christianity and the other officially-recognized religions above Sun Worship.
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
User avatar
pecker
Padawan Learner
Posts: 461
Joined: 2002-10-08 10:02pm
Location: U S of A

Post by pecker »

neoolong wrote:
pecker wrote:
Antediluvian wrote: How's that?
Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.

And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?

If they fall under the same category as other non-taxed charities, then no.
That's what i was thinking. But the 'church and state' faction would raise hell the likes of which we've never seen. I figure taxation of churched would go the way of prohibition. Good on paper, but torture in real life. If nothing else, churches would just change their title to charities. Hell, it's what I'd do in their shoes.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club

"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort

"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

pecker wrote:
Knife wrote:
pecker wrote: Well, first, it'll cause an uproar in both the religious and the 'separation of church and state' communities.


And also, where do you draw the line? Say we tax a church. Does that mean we can then tax a charity affiliated with the church?

Yup, equal taxation that goes along with equal representation is what I say. What should make a bunch of story tellers(bad ones at that) so special that they shouldn't pay taxes.
Because the majority of the world disagrees that they're just storytellers.
And it still comes down to special treatment.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Post Reply