The new ST V SW at startrek.com

[Darth Servo]

Servo, I love you. I want to be your disciple. "Master."

Follow the true masters: Wong, Poe, Dalton and others. I learned from them.

[Nick Lancaster]

The CIC is usually located below the armored deck for maximum protection. This is true of Essex-class (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) carriers and continues to be standard practice today. (Note that in Hunt For Red October, when the plane crashes on final, Admiral Painter and Jack Ryan appear on a ladderway coming up from the side of the flight deck.)

====

"I'm an architect." -- RioBravo

So what? Big deal? I work in television*, and I've apparently got a hell of a lot better grasp on engineering and technology than this Trektard does. Yes, I happen to like science fiction, and even enjoy TOS ... but that doesn't mean TrekScience governs how I do my job in the real world.

Frankly, if RB's engineering knowledge is based on 'I go to the magic box and it gives me numbers,' he's a sad excuse for an architect. Ain't no structural integrity fields in real life, chum. (Big hint - the SIF, which is always on, means the Enterprise is structurally unsound, but he knows that, 'cause he's an architect, right?)

Ergonomics is not about having less people and multi-function consoles. It's about making sure the work environment is suitable to the work being performed, maximizing efficiency through good design. The incline of the Conn or Ops console would be a factor in ergonomics - determining what angle allows an operator to keep their hands in position for extended periods of time without placing strain on the wrists, elbows, or neck/shoulders.

Contrast this with the extravagance of space on a Federation starship; Roddenberry not only wanted to show a level of luxury, but that technology was capable of taking us out of the cramped workspace. RiotardBravor should go look at a modern aircraft carrier and see the difference - space is at a premium, and movement is regulated during general quarters so you don't have 'people piling all over one another'. Why would a star destroyer be any different?


* And that happens to be for Viacom-owned CBS. You know, Viacom. The people who own Paramount and SpikeTV. (Which is why I haven't been posting nastygrams on startrek.com.)

[Darth Servo]

* And that happens to be for Viacom-owned CBS. You know, Viacom. The people who own Paramount and SpikeTV. (Which is why I haven't been posting nastygrams on startrek.com.)

Thats why you use a screen name instead of your real one.

[Nick Lancaster]

* And that happens to be for Viacom-owned CBS. You know, Viacom. The people who own Paramount and SpikeTV. (Which is why I haven't been posting nastygrams on startrek.com.)

Thats why you use a screen name instead of your real one.

Won't help when I'm posting from a computer at work ...

[General Zod]

* And that happens to be for Viacom-owned CBS. You know, Viacom. The people who own Paramount and SpikeTV. (Which is why I haven't been posting nastygrams on startrek.com.)

Thats why you use a screen name instead of your real one.

Won't help when I'm posting from a computer at work ...

so don't post from a computer at your job then. or use a proxy.

[Junghalli]

(thinking about what I have seen on screen those destroyers never even make turns, havent you noticed they always move in a straight line and crash and burn into each other so easily and the super star destroyer lost a little bubble on top of the bridge and crashed into the Death Star, major wussy ships

Actually, that's a realistic depiction of what a space battle would actually be like. In space it's very hard to turn around, because there's no resistance to movement you have to expend as much energy slowing down as speeding up. Of course, tell that to the retards who gave us "full stop" in space.
I'm not even going to get into his Trektarded nonsense about how the Empire is primitive because it doesn't use touchscreens. It's not their fault that Starfleet seems to design their fighting spacecraft the way we design commercial cars (that is primarily to look advanced, not neccessarily be advanced).

[Nick Lancaster]

so don't post from a computer at your job then. or use a proxy.

Yeah, it'd be major fun coming to every topic eight hours out. Not. I happen to surf sd.net between edit sessions.

MIS has our workstations so locked down we're lucky to be able to surf anything. (This was the result of one employee running a Napster session from his cubicle, another employee doing online gambling, and others surfing porn sites. Now we're heavily into digital fascism.)

[Darth Servo]

Darmok at the Trek shields vs laser thread has actually shown he is almost as stupid as DMJay by trying to use the example of a car to justify guestimating what something is by its name. I hit him over the head with the dictionary definition to show that even that word had evolved from older meanings. Then he demonstrated he didn't even know the dictionary definition of "rifle"

Why are there so many stupid trekkies around?

[Firefox]

All of the smart ones have given up and either abandoned the debate, or sided with the Warsies. The ignoramuses are the ones who don't realize what an uphill battle they've fought, and in consequence, stick with the dying ship.

[Darth Servo]

Its unbeliavable what an asshole TJHairball is.

Dear me... how off-topic you've gotten from the thread subject. I thought the point of making umpteen small threads was to keep them specific?

1) the only evidence that those were the "best troops" was the word of the single most evil man in the galaxy. You think thats trustworthy?

The "evil man" who happens to own the entire Empire, and therefore - being in charge of the entire Imperial military machine - should have a vague idea as to what his "best troops" are. If he does not, this indicates severe incompetence up top, which would cripple anything the Empire tried to do.

2) The ST had prepared for a small unit of rebel commandos. They had more than enough men and equipment to handle that threat.

An "entire legion." This was supposed to be a walk in the park.

3) The Ewoks had FAR superior numbers and greater knowledge of the terrain.

Superior knowledge of the terrain, yes. Greater numbers of actual soldiers on the field? Not by all that much.

4) The troopers were handicapped by direct orders from Vader to take prisoners alive.

Which orders you're now claiming include the Ewoks?

5) The troopers were WINNING the battle until Chewie hijacked the AT-ST and turned it against the imperials.

Hardly at all. Actually, the Ewoks and the Imperials were trading off fairly well ... and then, once Chewie hijacked the AT-ST, the Imperial line completely shattered. Even without the hijacking of the AT-ST, it is dubious the Imperials would've manage to win.

6) The sticks only hurt when they pierced the rubber body glove. They never pierced the armor itself.

Which must've happened fairly frequently, then. I guess Ewoks have very good aim, because they took down a whole lotta whitehats.

7) Even if the armor was made of marvel comics Adamantium, a large rock to the head would still knock the guy over. Armor doesn't violate conservation of momentum.

Over? Depends if the rock had enough momentum to do so against an person who remains conscious. Out? No.

But what the ground battle on Endor has to do with Trek shields and lasers is a mystery known only to the mind of Darmok. Its so amusing the way Trekkies try and draw the discussion off topic with irrelevancies like this. Its usually a sign that they know their losing.

And yet you and Elfwood gleefully join him in dragging it off topic. He writes a sentence, and it becomes a paragraph of discussion for each successive one of you.

Correction. Thats the most simple minded solution. For the UMPTEENTH time, TLs have NONE of the known properties of lasers.

Well... they do travel in essentially straight lines, and transmit energy. Otherwise... they're exceeding slow, visible, lose plenty of energy to-target, explode randomly in mid-air, etc etc. Clearly, TLs are not accurately depicted as lasers... but I do not expect accurate depiction of physics from a film.

Golden mean fallacy. TLs have DEMONSTRATED greater firepower than phasers. Why should we knock them DOWN a few hundred notches to satisfy you?

Incorrect as usual. TLs have demonstrated the firepower to blow up small asteroids - and never demonstrated more in any of the five films already out, and will almost certainly not demonstrate any more in ROTS. Phasers have demonstrated the ability to blow up large asteroids. Which is more powerful? Phasers are.

What does exploding early have to do with the power level of the bolt? Trekkies just LOVE their red herrings.

Exploding early renders the power entirely irrelevant.

It DID have to worry about the nav-deflector and its the n-d that is supposedly immune to lasers. If you want to DROP that silly argument, be my guest and conceed the whole topic of this thread.

Frequency windows of operation... as usual... can explain this. As TLs don't demonstrate a broad waveform modulation capability, the example isn't necessarily relevant to TLs.

Why when light TLs have demonstrated having enough energy to take out the E-D's shields with one shot?

Have demonstrated less than a thousandth of the raw power that we've seen a Constitution class soak up... with a rate of maximum demonstrated total fire of about five "light" bolts per second from the entire ISD.

And... as I mentioned earlier... a gravitational deflector capable of completely deflecting a laser of some small power is capable of deflecting a laser of arbitrarily large power. Thus, the "OMG SHEER FIREPOWER" argument is not only unfounded, but wouldn't even lead to necessary shield penetration if it was. Try sticking to valid arguments.

Dear me... how off-topic you've gotten from the thread subject. I thought the point of making umpteen small threads was to keep them specific?

Since you clearly don't know how to read, I was responding to DARMOK's red herring and chastizing HIM for it.

The "evil man" who happens to own the entire Empire, and therefore - being in charge of the entire Imperial military machine - should have a vague idea as to what his "best troops" are. If he does not, this indicates severe incompetence up top, which would cripple anything the Empire tried to do.

its NOT that he doesn't know what his troops are capable of. Its that his word is NOT reliable. See, evil people have this tendency to LIE.

An "entire legion." This was supposed to be a walk in the park.

"legion" was never defined and we can SEE that there are only a couple dozen troops at the back door.

And it WOULD have been a walk in the park against a dozen rebel commandos on foot. They WERE well prepared for the threat they expected.

Superior knowledge of the terrain, yes. Greater numbers of actual soldiers on the field? Not by all that much.

don't be ridiculous. There were HUNDREDS of Ewoks to a couple dozen troopers.

ROTJ novelization pg 151 "Stormtroopers fired their laser pistols at the furry creatures, killing or wounding many- only to be overrun by dozens more in their place."

The Ewoks could clearly replace their numbers as quickly as the stormtroopers could shoot them (and ewok casualties are clearly quite heavy from this quote). You're just full of crap, as usual.

Which orders you're now claiming include the Ewoks?

JNo. And I don't see how you came to that conclusion from what I posted. But their need to take REBELS prisoner would hinder thier combat abilities since many rebels were mixed among the ewoks.

5) The troopers were WINNING the battle until Chewie hijacked the AT-ST and turned it against the imperials.

Hardly at all. Actually, the Ewoks and the Imperials were trading off fairly well ... and then, once Chewie hijacked the AT-ST, the Imperial line completely shattered. Even without the hijacking of the AT-ST, it is dubious the Imperials would've manage to win.

Once again, you're out-right wrong.

ROTJ novelization pg 160-161 "Chewie climbed down inside. It took him half a minute to master the controls- Imperial technology was pretty standardized. And then, methodically, one by one, he began approaching the other, unsuspecting, Imperial Walkers, and blasting them to dust. Most had no idea what was happening. As the giant war-machines began going up in flames, the Ewoks were reinspired. They rallied behind Chewie's Walker. The Wookie was turning the tide of battle."

Which must've happened fairly frequently, then. I guess. Ewoks have very good aim, because they took down a whole lotta whitehats.

You got a picture of this? Didn't think so. You rarely do.

Over? Depends if the rock had enough momentum to do so against an person who remains conscious. Out? No.

I guess you'll just ignroe the FACT that some of those rocks were as big as the Ewok's heads. A rock of that size easily works out to a minimum of 30 lbs even if its light limestone. The Ewoks were tossing those things around as if they were styrofoam props showing they were far stronger than humans (not surprising since there are LOTS of animals right here on Earth that out-class us in terms of physiacl strength). If you were hit in the head or the chest with a 30 lb rock thrown by an animal with bear like strength, you most certainly would keel over.

And yet you and Elfwood gleefully join him in dragging it off topic. He writes a sentence, and it becomes a paragraph of discussion for each successive one of you

Because I know that you Trektards will consider ANY point unanswered as a concession. And as I showed, there were at least half a dozen problems with his one sentence.

Besides, you don't have any problem with agonizingly overly long diatribes from Darkstar.

Well... they do travel in essentially straight lines,

The TESB asteroid vape scene disproves that claim.

and transmit energy.

so do lots of things that are not lasers.

Otherwise... they're exceeding slow, visible, lose plenty of energy to-target, explode randomly in mid-air, etc etc.

Their detonatiosn are hardly "random" and their speed varies from bolt to bolt. Some are MUCH faster than others. The DS beam was at relativistic speeds.

Clearly, TLs are not accurately depicted as lasers... but I do not expect accurate depiction of physics from a film.

If the physics isn't accurate then you can't use the size of the explosions from SOE or TDiC since you "do not expect accurate depiction of physics from a film"

oops.

Incorrect as usual. TLs have demonstrated the firepower to blow up small asteroids - and never demonstrated more in any of the five films already out, and will almost certainly not demonstrate any more in ROTS. Phasers have demonstrated the ability to blow up large asteroids. Which is more powerful? Phasers are.

Only if you don't know the difference between "vaporize" and "fragment". Phasers fragnemt. LIGHT TLs vaporize. And we've never really seen what a HEAVY TL can do.

Exploding early renders the power entirely irrelevant.

It STILL has nothing to do with the actual ENERGY CONTENT of the bolt. I can't believe you are actually defending red herrings.

Frequency windows of operation... as usual... can explain this.

no it can't. If Fed nav delfectors truly WERE immune to lasers of ANY power level, all the frequency modulation in the universe wouldn't help.

As TLs don't demonstrate a broad waveform modulation capability, the example isn't necessarily relevant to TLs.

It not MEANT to be about TL's. Its about refuting an incredibly stupid idea that Fed nav-deflectors can some how deflect INFINITE amounts of laser energy.

Have demonstrated less than a thousandth of the raw power that we've seen a Constitution class soak up...

Where did this come from?

with a rate of maximum demonstrated total fire of about five "light" bolts per second from the entire ISD.

The "entire ISD" Where did this come from? At least a dozen were seen in the beginning of ANH and that was a CAPTURE operation.

And... as I mentioned earlier... a gravitational deflector capable of completely deflecting a laser of some small power is capable of deflecting a laser of arbitrarily large power.

And as I pointed out, if Fed deflectors truly worked that way, the ship would be invisible.

Thus, the "OMG SHEER FIREPOWER" argument is not only unfounded, but wouldn't even lead to necessary shield penetration if it was. Try sticking to valid arguments.

Fan-w@nk speculation about Fed shields warping infinite amounts of light around the ship in direct contradiction to what's seen onscreen is HARDLY a valid argument.

In fact you don't have a SINGLE vaild argument in your entire post. You defend red herrings. You post utter falsehoods about the weapons. Deny whats on screen and in the canon novelization in favor of your speculation about what the Emperor meant by a "legion" (actually you don't--you don't even TRY do define what a legion is. You just insist that it must have been roughly equal to the number of Ewoks without ANY evidence at all). And you accues ME of derailing the discussion for my criticizing your fellow trekkie of doing the same.

[Darth Servo]

DMJay wants to trash talk Lord Wong:

So let me ask you! What is more believeable, A website from the creator's company that has info from all sources (movies, books, radio, cartoons, games) canon and non-canon, or a website that a fanboy POS created in his moms basement, between jerking sessions with the AARP monthly mag.

And this is not a flame, because Wong isn't here but if he was I wouldn't hesitate to tell him this stuff!

Let the flames begin

[Stark]

Wow, he's combined appeal to authority with baseless personal attacks. What a champion!

Can't we point out that things like WEG sourcebooks and the ST:TM are ALSO made with all those resources, and are demonstrably false? Or that since people like Mike and Dr Saxton simply use the movies to disprove longstanding beliefs, that they're MORE canon?

[Mange]

5) The troopers were WINNING the battle until Chewie hijacked the AT-ST and turned it against the imperials.

Hardly at all. Actually, the Ewoks and the Imperials were trading off fairly well ... and then, once Chewie hijacked the AT-ST, the Imperial line completely shattered. Even without the hijacking of the AT-ST, it is dubious the Imperials would've manage to win.

Well, to be fair, George Lucas did say on the ROTJ DVD commentaries that it is established in the beginning of the battle that the Ewoks are "no match" for the Imperial troops, that the Imperials were superior, that "they [the Ewoks] begin to win near the end" that "But never to they [the Ewoks] actually overcome them [the Imperials] and that "this is really just the battle to get in to blow up the protective shield generator which means that all the Ewoks have to do is to is to distract the troops... they could engage them enough to keep them occupied...".

Man, that TJHairball is annoying. The worst kind of rabid trekkie seen to date. Is that the same person as BigHairyMountainMan over at the Strek-vs-swars forums?

[Darth Servo]

Man, that TJHairball is annoying. The worst kind of rabid trekkie seen to date. Is that the same person as BigHairyMountainMan over at the Strek-vs-swars forums?

yes. Darkstar acolyte extraordinaire

[Mange]

Man, that TJHairball is annoying. The worst kind of rabid trekkie seen to date. Is that the same person as BigHairyMountainMan over at the Strek-vs-swars forums?

yes. Darkstar acolyte extraordinaire

Yeah, I can only agree.

[Sothis]

I am still trying to draw DMJ into a one-on-one debate on my forum. I wonder if he did actually email Mike, or is he making that up?

[Darth Servo]

I am still trying to draw DMJ into a one-on-one debate on my forum. I wonder if he did actually email Mike, or is he making that up?

Should one of us PM Mike?

[Darth Servo]

I am still trying to draw DMJ into a one-on-one debate on my forum. I wonder if he did actually email Mike, or is he making that up?

Even if he did, what he said he emailed Mike about is a giant Ad Hominem fallacy. "Wong is biased" "His site is a POS" "His mocking of ST Nemesis proves his bias and that he can't say anything good about Trek"

The fact that DMJay actually says IN PUBLIC that Nemesis "wasn't a bad movie" shows his stupidity and fanaticism.

[Nick Lancaster]

DMJay wants to trash talk Lord Wong:

So let me ask you! What is more believeable, A website from the creator's company that has info from all sources (movies, books, radio, cartoons, games) canon and non-canon, or a website that a fanboy POS created in his moms basement, between jerking sessions with the AARP monthly mag.

And this is not a flame, because Wong isn't here but if he was I wouldn't hesitate to tell him this stuff!

Let the flames begin

LOL! DMJay is calling Lord Wong a fanboy? Helloooooooooo?

Laughable.

And is this still on startrek.com? I'm sure he's violated their TOS on language again.

[Sothis]

I am still trying to draw DMJ into a one-on-one debate on my forum. I wonder if he did actually email Mike, or is he making that up?

Should one of us PM Mike?

I think it's worth it, as long as Mike has the time- then again, how long would it take to rip DMJ to shreds?

[Darth Servo]

I think it's worth it, as long as Mike has the time- then again, how long would it take to rip DMJ to shreds?

Not long but then he has one of the biggest broken record syndromes since the original Rabid Stupid Asshole himself which would drag the debate on to eternity. Mike doesn't really need to get involved since even I can effortlessly crush his stupidity and I'm not nearly as effective or skilled as Wong.

But for the amusement of the board:

I have e-mailed him with what I thought of him, I told him that I thought that he was a biased POS, that his critique of Nemesis was nothing more than SW fanboy crap! Yes the movie wasn't the best but it wasn't as bad as he portrayed it to be! And I never recieved any type of response from him, not that I would think I would!

Thats his idea of a crushing argument against Stardestroyer.net

[Darth Servo]

And is this still on startrek.com?

yep

[Sothis]

DMJ has just joined my forums.

He posted this:

I think that the Borg would become Force Users, if they assimlilated a Force User! According to Qui-Gon Jinn and OB1 the Force is everywhere, and in everything. Now, if the Borg got a hold of a Jedi/Sith then all of thier knowledge would be transfered throughout the ENTIRE collective. That means any and all knowledge of he Force that, that particular Jedi had would be shared. Since the Midi-C's are in the Borg already, all they would need is the knowledge of the Force and how to use it, and by assimilating a Jedi/Sith that would fill inthe missing link they need!

The thread is here: http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/sothis-about37.html

I have challenged him to a debate along similar lines to that of the one between Mike and Darkstar.

[Darth Servo]

Yes, I just saw that over there. Shall I take him down or leave him to you?

[Sothis]

I think I'll give it a go, though you are more than welcome to show him what a moron he is