Homeworld2: ISD vs Sajuuk

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-03-31 10:09pm

For those out there whom have played the game ((and such a lovely game it is))You should all be quite familiar with the mighty Progenator ship Sajuuk and all the power it wields.

But if StarWars has taught me anything, its never under estimate the multi GigaTon powers of ISD TurboLasers. As such I humbly pose to you a Question.

Could The Sajuuk Take on an ISD? It IS Nearly twice it’s length, and with it’s Cannon can deal out the damage, but it would need to get within range first, and it is horribly slow outside of Hyperspace…

That aside, I wonder how other Progenator ships would fair aginst some StarWars Warships? The Dreadnaught or the Keeper perhaps?

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-03-31 10:24pm

EDIT: For those that don't know THIS Is the Sajuuk

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-03-31 10:38pm

I heard somewhere that the Sajuuk was actually a lot bigger than it's depicted in-game.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-03-31 10:54pm

Any actual referenced stats besides those in-game?

From what I'm seeing, I doubt it could stand more than a few seconds of bombardment before going down. A little over a g's worth of acceleration, a maximum veloity of just over ten, maximum gun range of twenty thousand meters. low maneuverability - even if it got scaled up a good amount, it doesn't look like it'd be able to do much besides annoy the destroyer' captain..

Antares · Post by **Antares** » 2005-04-01 08:46am

Ingame the main gun of Sajuuk can "vapourize" a frigate sized unit with a single shot. I leave the nitpicking and interpretion to others.

Its "far jump" device allows jumping to any point of a galaxy within several seconds.

But i dont give it any chance because Sajuuk is just too slugish, got no shields and also no other important thing to note.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 10:46am

From what I've seen (and I've only played Homeworld 1) the regular forces of that universe would have quite a lot of difficulty taking on even the Earth Alliance, hampered as it is by exceedingly short combat ranges. Vapourising a frigate like that would be child's play for an ISD's medium guns, let alone it's heavy ones. A vorlon dreadnought might be a more appropriate match (and even that can sit outside visual range and keep firing indefinately)

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2005-04-01 12:01pm

Probably owned by the ISD. I wish I could get HW2 to work better.

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2005-04-01 12:51pm

Sajuuk is pwned by plasma bombs fired by bombers.

I'm willing to bet that an ISD can crank out more firepower than a few squadrons of bombers.

Still, it's possibly the one of the more realistic games in terms of physics.
While Sajuuk loses to the ISD, I think a Heavy Cruiser could smash up a Borg Cube. (Ablative armour, Non-phased beam weapons, 1-ton mass drivers vs. tinfoil, green beams and cannonballs)

Alexus · Post by **Alexus** » 2005-04-01 01:18pm

This reminds me of an amusing thread: How meany Heavy Cruisers from Homeworld vs and ISD. Someone decided a few dozen and others agreed. It takes these ships TEN SECONDS to break down a fifty metre asteroid.

More like a MILLION HC's to an ISD.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2005-04-01 02:28pm

You know, its rather strange that most of those pictures shown, are of mostly of ships that have been abandoned

They must be great in combat for all of their owners to have buggered off while their insurance was fresh

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-04-01 02:51pm

Well, there's only one, and the owners vanished from the known galaxy a number of millenia ago. A /large number/ of millenia ago. So, uh, yeah, it's abandoned.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-04-01 03:02pm

You know what the problem is here?

Really, NOTHING can go up against an ISD, except another ISD or larger ship... I thought the Sajuuk, with it's Über Cannon would at least have a chance, but no.. It just can't survive long enough to enflict heavy damage...

What this should be is what Sci-Fi ships can go up against the Sajuuk!

After all, those Homeworld2 ships are no wusses, sure they can't go up against StarWars ships, but what can?

I'd much rather have a Heavy BattleShip then a GCS anyday.[/i][/b]

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 03:45pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:After all, those Homeworld2 ships are no wusses, sure they can't go up against StarWars ships, but what can?

A Time Lord warship, A late period dalek ship, A Culture Ship. Those are just three ships that spring to mind as being able to tear an ISD a new one without breaking a sweat. There are more.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 03:47pm

Alexus wrote:It takes these ships TEN SECONDS to break down a fifty metre asteroid.

Ouch. That's definately sub Earth Alliance.

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2005-04-01 04:05pm

It takes a destroyer that long to break up the asteriod, not a Cruiser. The HC could break it in less than half the time.

(I don't think there are any moving, dangerous asteroids after the Diamond Shoals, been a while since I played it though)

And I'm not sure about 50m. Relic has stated that the Mothership is 7 miles high, can we get scaling?

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-04-01 04:08pm

The Progenator Mothership? Because I'm sure the Hilgarin one isn't that big...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 04:14pm

Vanas wrote:And I'm not sure about 50m. Relic has stated that the Mothership is 7 miles high, can we get scaling?

Stand by.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 04:23pm

The Higaaran mothership is seven kilometers high according to the ingame scaling. Are the asteroids in question the same size as the ones the resource collectos target?

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2005-04-01 04:38pm

My bad, yeah, it's 7km, not miles.
And I'm guessing it's the Diamond Shoals asteroids, the ones that are actaully hitting the MS and require destruction.

Side note: Going by in-game scaling:
http://ourworld.cs.com/Toryu%20Nanashi/hw-scale.jpg
^That's one helluva turret on the HC. And we know it can chuck a 1-ton projectile at +10,000m/s.
Anyone wanna guess the damage it does?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 04:39pm

Because one of those asteroids seems to scale to no less than 900m...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-01 04:44pm

Vanas wrote: ^That's one helluva turret on the HC. And we know it can chuck a 1-ton projectile at +10,000m/s.
Anyone wanna guess the damage it does?

Assuming a metric ton, that's a 50 gigajoule* weapon. Assuming imperial ton, 50.8 Gj

* NB projectiles generally do more damage to a target than energy weapons. They do direct damage to structures through momentum.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-04-01 04:45pm

Hey guys! I just Found Some reeeally nice images of Homeworlds2 ships you can use!

http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/show ... hp?t=11164

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-04-01 05:00pm

I hated Sajuuk, and that's all I'll say.

Troodon · Post by **Troodon** » 2005-04-01 07:10pm

NecronLord wrote:
Vanas wrote: ^That's one helluva turret on the HC. And we know it can chuck a 1-ton projectile at +10,000m/s.
Anyone wanna guess the damage it does?
Assuming a metric ton, that's a 50 gigajoule* weapon. Assuming imperial ton, 50.8 Gj

* NB projectiles generally do more damage to a target than energy weapons. They do direct damage to structures through momentum.

For a real-life comparison, the kinetic energy of a round from an Iowa-class battleship* is around 250 MJ, with a momentum of 656,844 kg·m/s. The Heavy Cruiser's rounds have nearly 200 times the KE of an Iowa's rounds, but only around 15 times the momentum, assuming I have calculated correctly.

It might be useful to try calculating the power needed for propulsion, to give an idea of how much power the ship has to work with. This site lists the HC's acceleration as 39 m/s^2, and the mass as 131,000 tons. The Homeworld manual says 800,000 tons and doesn't list acceleration as far as I can see, so I don't know where they got those figures. The in-game build menu gives a figure of 10,000 tons, although this strikes me as being excessively low if the DS9 comparison picture is accurate. Using a mass of 800,000 tons means the engines need arond 608 GW to accelerate to 39 m/s in one second. The 131,000 figure results in 99 GW, and the 10,000 figure leads to 7.6 GW.

I haven't found anything that gives a precise figure for the ion cannons, but given the manual states they draw power from the main drive the above numbers should be somewhat applicable.

I've never played Homeworld 2, so I can't say how the Sajuuk compares to the HW1 Heavy Cruiser, but unless it is orders of magnitude more powerful these numbers don't bode well for it.

I hope this proves useful, and that I haven't botched my calculations.

*Battleship figures here.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-04-02 03:52am

Okay...some background. HW2 takes place a century past HW1, with the associated tech increase. Sadly, we have no HARD numbers for comparison, as no ships are the same in both games, but Sajuuk can /almost/ destroy a modern battlecruiser in a single shot at several times its possible engagment range. Based on that, it's quite likely that it would be able to burn a century-old ship of a smaller class in half and come back asking for more. Assume it has enough firepower to destroy a heavy cruiser in one shot, and no more, and find out how many shots from a CA's railgun and a CA's ion cannon it takes to destroy one, and you have an operational lower limit to the power of Sajuuk's main cannon. If no one's picked this up, I'll do some research tomorrow, it's almost 4AM here now.