Voyager was the show that destroyed Star Trek

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-15 06:10pm

Being a newbie here, I guess that I don't have room to flame you for saying that Voyager was not that bad... OK, yes, I will! Voyager was absolutely terrible. The biggest insult to Star Trek to ever hit the screen. It's funny how TNG had a few bad episodes (Picard and company get turned into children, Data turns into the mask wearing multiple personality, etc.) but Voyager had maybe a FEW good ones (and that is being generous)!

No, DS9 was a hell of lot better than Voyager. Not that DS9 was great, mind you, just that Voyager was THAT bad.

Anyone else notice that because of Voyager's doctor, "photonic" like forms all of the sudden became commplace? It's amazing to see how unoriginal B & B really are. I think that the crew on Enterprise even encountered some, and this is supposed to be a prequal to TOS!

Or how about the episode where Voyager finds a floating PICK UP TRUCK in space, in the Delta Quadrant! Or was that just a dream I once had... Please tell me it was only a dream.

Dirty Harry · Post by **Dirty Harry** » 2002-11-15 06:20pm

spongyblue wrote:I would have to disagree on that on one point; Much of the acting on DS9 was a hell of a lot better. Even though they had a lot drivel on that show, as a whole you had good actors who made stories that if on Voyager would have made you shoot yourself, somewhat watchable. I think Avery Brooks is an excellent actor and I think there were many episodes were he showed that talent. The only one on Voyager that showed any kind of talent to me was the Doctor.

I agree. For me, Sisko was the one who made much of DS9 palatable. And they even manged to get in a half-way decent war as well, not bad!

Oh, and Bozman....POKE!!!!!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 06:24pm

bozman wrote:Being a newbie here, I guess that I don't have room to flame you for saying that Voyager was not that bad... OK, yes, I will! Voyager was absolutely terrible. The biggest insult to Star Trek to ever hit the screen. It's funny how TNG had a few bad episodes (Picard and company get turned into children, Data turns into the mask wearing multiple personality, etc.) but Voyager had maybe a FEW good ones (and that is being generous)!

No, DS9 was a hell of lot better than Voyager. Not that DS9 was great, mind you, just that Voyager was THAT bad.

Anyone else notice that because of Voyager's doctor, "photonic" like forms all of the sudden became commplace? It's amazing to see how unoriginal B & B really are. I think that the crew on Enterprise even encountered some, and this is supposed to be a prequal to TOS!

Or how about the episode where Voyager finds a floating PICK UP TRUCK in space, in the Delta Quadrant! Or was that just a dream I once had... Please tell me it was only a dream.

No. It wasn't a dream. Mu hahahaha. And then they met Amelia Earhart. And then...

Dirty Harry · Post by **Dirty Harry** » 2002-11-15 06:26pm

.......please, no more!

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-15 06:32pm

Amelia Earheart!?!? I'm surprised that they never ran into Elvis during their travels in the Delta Quadrant. Please don't tell me they did that too...

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 06:43pm

bozman wrote:Amelia Earheart!?!? I'm surprised that they never ran into Elvis during their travels in the Delta Quadrant. Please don't tell me they did that too...

Well, actually they find out that Elvis is really an alien clone and they find the planet he is on. There Elvis Clone #35798 seduces Janeway and....

Just kidding. That would just be too evil. Even for me.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-11-15 09:56pm

In actuality, Trek's degeneration began in the latter part of season 5. It wasn't noticeable at first, but the increasing number of technobabble episodes, soap-opera episodes, and the general lack of character development after mid-season 5 pretty much set the high-water mark for the Franchise. From that point onward, Trek was starting to run out of steam.

It would have been far better not to have proceeded with Deep Space Nine and simply wrapped TNG after its seven years, declared victory, and gotten out. For all the problems TNG was having in its later seasons, it still went out on a high note, a bona-fide television success. But it's pretty clear that its pallid treatment of human issues, avoidance of conflict, and PC moralising is the reason why Star Trek: The Next Generation is not ageing as well as the original (and truth be told, one-and-only) Star Trek.

But Voyager is indeed what has made the Franchise a laughing stock; an object of contempt to the modern SF audience and inconsequential to the general television watching public. That show exposed the creative and ideological bankruptcy which reigns in the Production Office. And Boobyprise is merely the putricense bubbling out of Trek's decaying corpse.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-11-16 06:49am

Sorry, just noticed that I'd forgotten to specify that I was referring to season 5-onward of Star Trek: The Next Generation as to the beginning of the Franchise's degeneration.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-11-16 10:18am

The Dark wrote:Voyager wasn't really that bad. The cast was great, I mean, Neelix was a laugh a minute, Janeway was HOT, and the whole Chakotay/7of9 thing was the most realistic sci-fi romance I've ever seen.

The Dark wrote: You have no IDEA how hard it was to write that. Voyager was horrible. I can't believe I made it through half the first season without gagging.

Oh, and by the way...

It had to have been bad...an out of body halucinatory experience.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2002-11-16 06:27pm

Patrick Degan wrote:In actuality, Trek's degeneration began in the latter part of season 5. It wasn't noticeable at first, but the increasing number of technobabble episodes, soap-opera episodes, and the general lack of character development after mid-season 5 pretty much set the high-water mark for the Franchise. From that point onward, Trek was starting to run out of steam.

It would have been far better not to have proceeded with Deep Space Nine and simply wrapped TNG after its seven years, declared victory, and gotten out. For all the problems TNG was having in its later seasons, it still went out on a high note, a bona-fide television success. But it's pretty clear that its pallid treatment of human issues, avoidance of conflict, and PC moralising is the reason why Star Trek: The Next Generation is not ageing as well as the original (and truth be told, one-and-only) Star Trek.

But Voyager is indeed what has made the Franchise a laughing stock; an object of contempt to the modern SF audience and inconsequential to the general television watching public. That show exposed the creative and ideological bankruptcy which reigns in the Production Office. And Boobyprise is merely the putricense bubbling out of Trek's decaying corpse.

Bravo, Bravo! I couldn't agree more with most of what you said. My only exception is that I think TNG shoud have folded it's tent at the end of season five. I noticed back then that the quality of stories was poorer, and that the episodes got short on action and long on touchy feely "character stories" of the soap opera type (that strangely did nothing to add depth to any of the characters. They had an occasional good story in the last two seasons, but not many. If they had ended Trek back then, around '90 or '91. The time would be ripe, right about now, for a new movie or series (with a different set of producers than Berman and Braga, naturally). They could even use the Voyager concept. There was nothing wrong with the basic premise of the show, B&B merely fucked it up six ways from Sunday, and completely failed to realize its potential. Better producers and writers, and a few changes to the cast could have made a very different and actually pretty good series out of it.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2002-11-16 06:50pm

Voyager is when I stopped watching Star Trek. 'nuff said.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2002-11-16 11:28pm

In actuality, Trek's degeneration began in the latter part of season 5. It wasn't noticeable at first, but the increasing number of technobabble episodes, soap-opera episodes, and the general lack of character development after mid-season 5 pretty much set the high-water mark for the Franchise. From that point onward, Trek was starting to run out of steam.

It would have been far better not to have proceeded with Deep Space Nine and simply wrapped TNG after its seven years, declared victory, and gotten out. For all the problems TNG was having in its later seasons, it still went out on a high note, a bona-fide television success. But it's pretty clear that its pallid treatment of human issues, avoidance of conflict, and PC moralising is the reason why Star Trek: The Next Generation is not ageing as well as the original (and truth be told, one-and-only) Star Trek.

But Voyager is indeed what has made the Franchise a laughing stock; an object of contempt to the modern SF audience and inconsequential to the general television watching public. That show exposed the creative and ideological bankruptcy which reigns in the Production Office. And Boobyprise is merely the putricense bubbling out of Trek's decaying corpse.

How dare you demean Star trek: TNG that way. It was much more better than even TOS, you better believe it or else i will send Macroviruses over to your house and they will incubate inside you. Deep Space Nine was excellent, it was a step forward. Voyager was in fact a step backwards with the first 3 seasons rehashing TOS and TNG ep's.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-16 11:33pm

How dare you demean Star trek: TNG that way. It was much more better than even TOS, you better believe it or else i will send Macroviruses over to your house and they will incubate inside you. Deep Space Nine was excellent, it was a step forward. Voyager was in fact a step backwards with the first 3 seasons rehashing TOS and TNG ep's.

You think TNG was better than the original series?

DIE INFADEL

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-11-16 11:57pm

Dennis Toy wrote:How dare you demean Star trek: TNG that way. It was much more better than even TOS, you better believe it or else i will send Macroviruses over to your house and they will incubate inside you. Deep Space Nine was excellent, it was a step forward. Voyager was in fact a step backwards with the first 3 seasons rehashing TOS and TNG ep's.

That was a joke, I trust. Nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together can actually believe such nonsense, can they?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-17 12:02am

I don't know about everything past Season 5 sucking. I rather like "Gambit". And... uh... thinking here...

I like "Gambit"!

Ok, maybe it did start to really suck.

avoidance of conflict

What do you mean? That it avoided controversy? Or that the series tended to shy away from combat?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-17 12:03am

data_link: The appropriate spelling is "infidel".

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 12:10am

Uraniun235 wrote:data_link: The appropriate spelling is "infidel".

*corrects glaring spelling error*

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 12:11am

How dare you demean Star trek: TNG that way. It was much more better than even TOS, you better believe it or else i will send Macroviruses over to your house and they will incubate inside you. Deep Space Nine was excellent, it was a step forward. Voyager was in fact a step backwards with the first 3 seasons rehashing TOS and TNG ep's.

You think TNG was better than the original series?

DIE INFIDEL

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2002-11-17 12:28am

ok, ok it is a joke..... Voyagers first 3 seasons were dumber...

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2002-11-17 02:09am

bozman wrote:I don't know why people become offended when I say this, but "Star Trek Voyager" was the beginning of the end for Trek. Thanks to Voyager, the Borg were wussified and made into the villain of the week, the Q became just another alien, Warp 10 was achieved, vulcans no longer had the super strength that they once had, they managed to find the ONLY two Ferengi in the entire quadrant... the list goes on. Basically, what I am saying is that Voyager ruined any sort of continuity that was ever established.

Not to mention the fact that the cast was probably the worst ever assembled. Hell, they could have dressed up the cast of "Friends" in Starfleet uniforms and they would have done a better job.
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Greetings, new person!

While I see your point about Voyager and its hand in the destruction of Star Trek, I am more inclined to believe that TNG caused the slow and painful death of Star Trek. The infusion of political correctness and technobabble did much to diminish the aura of Trek, IMO.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-17 02:57am

B&B destroyed Star Trek. Voyager was merely a tool of there evil.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2002-11-17 08:29am

I am surprised that no one have killed them yet?

LOL

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-11-17 06:15pm

Yes, yes, bad Voyager, bad.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-11-17 06:17pm

oh look I just got over 400 posts and add that on to this post inflation post

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-17 09:18pm

jegs2 wrote:While I see your point about Voyager and its hand in the destruction of Star Trek, I am more inclined to believe that TNG caused the slow and painful death of Star Trek. The infusion of political correctness and technobabble did much to diminish the aura of Trek, IMO.

Eh, except there's still quite a few quality episodes in TNG. True, it degrades... but that doesn't change the fact that there's still some good work in there.

Voyager... really, how many episodes can anyone think of that were actually good?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Voyager was the show that destroyed Star Trek

The degeneration began earlier than Voyager

EDIT —addenda

Re: The degeneration began earlier than Voyager

Re: Voyager was the show that destroyed Star Trek

Re: Voyager was the show that destroyed Star Trek