So, got the ROTS ICS, hope this hasnt been posted already.

[Gorefiend]

What ar you talking about? Didn't you see the flashes during that chase? They WERE hitting the ship. And those that didn't were at best near-misses.. Its actually a well known Imperial fire tactic discussed in Hutt Gambit (used to box in the enemy to allow them to be more easily targetd.)

In that case the Falcon must have some very impressive deflector shields in deed. o.O I always thought they just landed very narrow misses and the shields were weakening because of the proximity of the blasts.

[NecronLord]

Heard of targeting computers?

Right. Turbolasers travel at... C (well, actually, according to the new novellisation, slightly below it, though that may be another weapon).

Ten light minutes means they will take how long to hit?

The enemy has FTL sensors capable of registering that it's been fired upon.

Even the death star can travel many times its own length in ten minutes.

Thus, at that range, when your energy leaves the gun, the enemy will know about it and have ten full minutes to dodge.

[His Divine Shadow]

Sure I do, but it strikes me as odd that a Veni should be able to snipe something out of space from 180 million kilometres away, whilst two ISD hunting a light freighter don’t land anything but narrow strip shoots, might just be really bad gunners, though.

Jamming, speed of light delay, evasive manuevering, heat of the moment in combat, the mentioning of this is just an example of the extremes of technological ability, not something you should actually consider an impression of true ranges in combat.

[white_rabbit]

Well, I hope this is constructive, its a section from the ROTS ICS, the specs on the Invisible Hands Quad HTL turbolaser mounts.


Equivalent to a magnitude ten Earthquake.

Google tells me thats 1 trillion tons of TNT, which converts
4.184E22 joules, which converts to 10 teratons, which results in 2.5 teratons per barrel.

No its not. The formula for figuring out the energy of an earthquake of a given magnitude is 1.74x10(5+1.44[Ms]) where Ms represents the magnitude.

Edit: The quote in question is:

Quad TL cannon's maximum yield is equivalent to magnitude-10 earthquake

*shrug*

This is the site I used, it has the equation you described, and a list of equivalent yields in tons of explosives of the seismic wave energy.

[CJvR]

Ten light-minutes?! Now that's really impressive! That's a range of 180 million kilometers. Wow.

That's fairly obviously talking about an intert enemy. An active enemy vessel could have altered course and gotten itself thousands of kilometers out of the way by the time the bolt arrived. Even the Death Star could dodge the Venator's fire at that range.

Heard of targeting computers?

It hardly matters how accurate the targeting is since you will not be aiming at the enemy ship but rather where you guess it will be by the time your shots arrive. During the era of the Battleships the flight time of the shells would be about 20-40 seconds so you aimed ahead of the enemy and adjusted the range if he wasn't on a parallell course.
The real effective combat range will be where the RoF allow a dense enough firepattern to continualy drain the enemy's shields. Considering the speed and manouverability of SW ships that would probably be limited to a few light seconds.

[Jadeite]

Holy fuck!

That seems to be a really high number!
I wonder how the Treekies will deal with that. MTL with 200GT, and now HT with 10TT!
(I assume that TT is above GT)

Pray tell why is your first reaction to post in the PSW forum about how you think Terkkies will apparently have some kind of emotional breakdown? Yeash, get a GRIP.

Considering the fuss that was put up last time, I'd agree with him.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Heard of targeting computers?

Right. Turbolasers travel at... C (well, actually, according to the new novellisation, slightly below it, though that may be another weapon).

Ten light minutes means they will take how long to hit?

The enemy has FTL sensors capable of registering that it's been fired upon.

Even the death star can travel many times its own length in ten minutes.

Thus, at that range, when your energy leaves the gun, the enemy will know about it and have ten full minutes to dodge.

Unless its a immoblie space station/planetary target(and they are able to compensate for orbit and rotation)

[NecronLord]

Unless its a immoblie space station/planetary target(and they are able to compensate for orbit and rotation)

What did I say about inert targets?

[Mange]

That's fairly obviously talking about an intert enemy. An active enemy vessel could have altered course and gotten itself thousands of kilometers out of the way by the time the bolt arrived. Even the Death Star could dodge the Venator's fire at that range.

Heard of targeting computers?

It hardly matters how accurate the targeting is since you will not be aiming at the enemy ship but rather where you guess it will be by the time your shots arrive. During the era of the Battleships the flight time of the shells would be about 20-40 seconds so you aimed ahead of the enemy and adjusted the range if he wasn't on a parallell course.
The real effective combat range will be where the RoF allow a dense enough firepattern to continualy drain the enemy's shields. Considering the speed and manouverability of SW ships that would probably be limited to a few light seconds.

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, the text implies that a turbolaser bolt has a very low dissipation rate and that a bolt de facto is able to hit a target at the said distance (although I can only imagine the target to be inert).

[The Original Nex]

Sure I do, but it strikes me as odd that a Veni should be able to snipe something out of space from 180 million kilometres away, whilst two ISD hunting a light freighter don’t land anything but narrow strip shoots, might just be really bad gunners, though.

The VenStar couldn't target an agile, 35m Freighter at that distance. The ImpStars in ANH and ESB were not trying to destroy the Falcon. They were most likely trying to cripple, or herd the ship in range of their Tractor Beams. They weren't going for direct hit kills.

[The Original Nex]

What ar you talking about? Didn't you see the flashes during that chase? They WERE hitting the ship. And those that didn't were at best near-misses.. Its actually a well known Imperial fire tactic discussed in Hutt Gambit (used to box in the enemy to allow them to be more easily targetd.)

In that case the Falcon must have some very impressive deflector shields in deed. o.O I always thought they just landed very narrow misses and the shields were weakening because of the proximity of the blasts.

They aren't hitting the Falcon with Gigaton yield Heavy Turbolaser bolts, that would vaporize the little ship in a puff of smoke. They were hitting it with glancing blows with their Point Defense Light Turbolasers.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Well, I hope this is constructive, its a section from the ROTS ICS, the specs on the Invisible Hands Quad HTL turbolaser mounts.


Equivalent to a magnitude ten Earthquake.

Google tells me thats 1 trillion tons of TNT, which converts
4.184E22 joules, which converts to 10 teratons, which results in 2.5 teratons per barrel.

No its not. The formula for figuring out the energy of an earthquake of a given magnitude is 1.74x10(5+1.44[Ms]) where Ms represents the magnitude.

Edit: The quote in question is:

Quad TL cannon's maximum yield is equivalent to magnitude-10 earthquake

Isn't this only around 10.5 GT? That's awfully low.

EDIT:

Ms is "surface wave magnitude" according to the site. I'm pretty sure Saxton meant ML, or Richter scale magnitude.

Use the PEPP Learning Library to learn more about the different magnitude scales developed by seismologists over the years. In the Learning Library, you will find information about:

* The Richter Scale, also called the Local Magnitude Scale, and abbreviated ML.

* The body wave magnitude scale, abbreviated mb.

* The surface wave magnitude scale, abbreviated Ms.

* The moment magnitude scale, abbreviated Mw.

Code: Select all

Richter     TNT for Seismic    Example
Magnitude      Energy Yield    (approximate)

-1.5                6 ounces   Breaking a rock on a lab table
 1.0               30 pounds   Large Blast at a Construction Site
 1.5              320 pounds
 2.0                1 ton      Large Quarry or Mine Blast
 2.5              4.6 tons
 3.0               29 tons
 3.5               73 tons   
 4.0            1,000 tons     Small Nuclear Weapon
 4.5            5,100 tons     Average Tornado (total energy)
 5.0           32,000 tons
 5.5           80,000 tons     Little Skull Mtn., NV Quake, 1992
 6.0        1 million tons     Double Spring Flat, NV Quake, 1994
 6.5        5 million tons     Northridge, CA Quake, 1994
 7.0       32 million tons     Hyogo-Ken Nanbu, Japan Quake, 1995; Tsar Bomba
 7.5      160 million tons     Landers, CA Quake, 1992
 8.0        1 billion tons     San Francisco, CA Quake, 1906
 8.5        5 billion tons     Anchorage, AK Quake, 1964
 9.0       32 billion tons     Chilean Quake, 1960
10.0       1 trillion tons     (San-Andreas type fault circling Earth)
12.0     160 trillion tons     (Fault Earth in half through center,
                               OR Earth's daily receipt of solar energy)

This looks repudable and more specifically, it describes energy compared to Richeter magnitude, which is almost certainly what Saxton meant. And 1 teraton (1000 gigatons) seems to make more sense. Five times the Acclamator gun max output would be commiserate with your Venator gun estimates as well.

[CJvR]

However, the text implies that a turbolaser bolt has a very low dissipation rate and that a bolt de facto is able to hit a target at the said distance

If it is the maximum range I suspect it have to mean the maximum effective range where there still is some juice left in the beam rather than a targeting restriction. If it was simply a targeting restriction you could fire at a planet from lightdays away.

[Lord Poe]

Pray tell why is your first reaction to post in the PSW forum about how you think Terkkies will apparently have some kind of emotional breakdown? Yeash, get a GRIP.

Considering the fuss that was put up last time, I'd agree with him.

And you'd be right. As Spaceballes proves, once again.

Remember, the Warsie Mantra.

Jamming, Variable Yields, Canon heirarchy.

Yeah, remember the Trekkie mantra: "Piss, Moan, Moan, and Bitch".

Why the fuck would the equivelant of a tracer round cause a recoil and not the 200+ Gigaton shot.

Yes folks, because JUST the tracer is fired. Uh huh...

Do the guys who write these books actually get to watch the movies early? Or (as I am suspecting) do they just totally make shit up? Cause from where I'm sitting, 10 light minute ranges is absolute, absolute bullshit for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that it's completely unsurported by the movies.

Yet another cunt that doesn't understand when a weapon's capabilities are listed, it doesn't HAVE to reflect a certain scene in a movie. "Duh, a Hummer has a listed max speed of 200mph, but every single one I've seen in a parking lot barely goes a FRACTION of that!

Jamming is why in SW, the ships always engage at ranges so laughable ?

Yes, because it would make SO much more sense to hang back 10 light minutes to capture the Falcon...

Or hang back 10 light minutes to capture Rebels leaving Hoth...

Or hang back 10 light minutes when ordered to prevent the Rebels from escaping the Endor system...

Stupid fuck....

I'm going to start counting the number of times that "jamming" is used as a cop-out to avoid any and all arguements involving Wars' range or accuracy.

"..and not bring up one single example to support my pissing and moaning like the little bitch I am..."

can wait to see the look on the waris face when they go watch the movie expecting this million km range.

Yes, because its going to make SO much sense to hang back 10 light minutes when laying seige to Coruscant, or defending Coruscant...

Yup, the Trekkies have sure changed in the years following AOTC:ICS...

[Mange]

However, the text implies that a turbolaser bolt has a very low dissipation rate and that a bolt de facto is able to hit a target at the said distance

If it is the maximum range I suspect it have to mean the maximum effective range where there still is some juice left in the beam rather than a targeting restriction. If it was simply a targeting restriction you could fire at a planet from lightdays away.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.

[Coalition]

Until one spoilsport in this thread mentioned the downside, I thought of a possible alpha strike using that 10 LM range ability.

Jump to within 10 LM of your stationary target. Open fire.
Jump to 9.5 LM of the target. Wait until it is 30 seconds from your first firing (and stasy out of the way). Open fire.
Jump to 9 LM of the target. Open fire at the right time again.
Jump to 8.5, 8, 7.5, etc.

Then, at 5 LM, you jump next to the target, and talk casually with them. After a few minutes, the shots arrive (figure ~11 broadsides worth all at once).

This is the spoilsport:

The enemy has FTL sensors capable of registering that it's been fired upon.

With that ability, the target will be able to detect my little stunt.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

That's a pretty dumb stunt, though. Why don't you just jump in right next to them, perform an EVA, and masturbate all over their hull?

[Chris OFarrell]

Pray tell why is your first reaction to post in the PSW forum about how you think Terkkies will apparently have some kind of emotional breakdown? Yeash, get a GRIP.

Considering the fuss that was put up last time, I'd agree with him.

And you'd be right. As Spaceballes proves, once again.

Wayne I know its going to be completly impossible for you. But could you at least TRY not to paint the Trekkie community by the actions of a few? The vast majority of Trek people on SB havn't even said ANTHING one way or the other.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Frankly, Tribun has the air of a major me-tooing kiss-ass suck up in regards to the versus debates.

[buzz_knox]

The ironic thing is that the Trekkies are complaining about knife fight distances depicted in SW, and alleging that negates long ranges for SW weapons. These are, of course, the same Trekkies who will argue that jamming and the need for precision justify using the incredibly long ranged ST weapons at knife fight distances.

[white_rabbit]

Yeah, remember the Trekkie mantra: "Piss, Moan, Moan, and Bitch".

Oh look, an arsehole who managed not to read to the part where I have a reasonable discussion with Apocalypse on jamming.

A trekkie ? Get a fucking clue idiot.

Yes, because it would make SO much more sense to hang back 10 light minutes to capture the Falcon...

Or hang back 10 light minutes to capture Rebels leaving Hoth...

Or hang back 10 light minutes when ordered to prevent the Rebels from escaping the Endor system...

Stupid fuck....

My, what a nice extreme interpretation you made of what I said there, *shrug* I freely admit, nothing of what I said there is particularly of value, simply a sarcastic comment.

Which you, in all your wisdom take to be an example of Trekkies on spacebattles ?

Why don't you fuck off and go find someone not taking the piss to hold up as an example of Trekdom ?

I don't give a fuck if you think everyone else should maintain a serious, objective look at something without fail, I felt like taking the piss, then I later felt like discussing something seriously, which I proceeded to do so, fairly reasonably I might add, So please, do a little more research than skimming the pages for anything you find objectionable, then posting it somewhere else.

Wanker.

[Lord Poe]

Aw, every time white rabbit is called on his bullshit, he defends it by "taking the pisss guv'nah!" Why don't you EVER stand by your fucking statements, asshole? Motherfucking coward...

[white_rabbit]

Aw, every time white rabbit is called on his bullshit, he defends it by "taking the pisss guv'nah!" Why don't you EVER stand by your fucking statements, asshole? Motherfucking coward...

I don't recall EVER even talking to you dickhead, sorry, you aren't that notable for me.

Were the FUCK, have you gotten this impression from...wait, no, I don't give a flying fuck where you've gotten the idea I'm a trekkie and always post statements that are deliberately engineered so I can claim they are jokes.

did another loudmouth arsehole like yourself mumble it while they were sucking the cock protruding from your forehead, or is it a prepackaged retort, ribbed with crap for the extra pleasure of some tosser sychophant to lick it off ?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Um, Yea, so, eh, rying to steal things BACK toward the subject of the ICS book? Has anyone done calculations on the Merchant Clan Frigates main guns? It was reported those two HeavyTurbo Lasers are FAR More massive then any seen on a starship yet. How do they compare to the Heavy TL on an ISD I or II?

[white_rabbit]

Hey fucker, why don't you go do a point by point of all my posts in the thread you quoted, I know you love doing that!

well wanker, I eagerly await your overwhelming evidence I was doing anything but taking the piss along with a bunch of others for the first page or so, I am frankly baffled by this bloody stupid accusation of being a trekkie, and am firmly convinced you didn't even read anything after the first few pages.

How the fuck you thought I was engaging in debate with ANYONE when I posted those things I don't know.

I have two thoughts, either you didn't read the entire thread, and decided to include me in that ridiculous initiation of some fucking mutual masturbation/self-indulgent flame bait, for the purpose of validating some mental assertions you have about how everyone over at spacebattles is out to get Star Wars, or that while you were tonguing some freakish sex toy made in your own image, you did read the rest of the thread, and the sex toys 20 inch forehead attachment skullfucked you, thus distracting you from reading.

Hey, another option is, you read it all, and I'm completely off base with any of my conclusions or comments, i.e. you disagree with them, in which case, since its obviously concerned you greatly, and you clearly have a lot of spare time, and clearly don't mind devoting it to disabusing people you disagree with of their beliefs, so why the fuck didn't you decide to respond to my later posts if they were such horrible, unprovable drivel ? So, if you did read em, fuck you for being such an incredible arsehole, that you felt it was worth insinuating that making sarcastic, throwaway comments is the sum total of my entire posting history by cherry picking those two.

Make that three thoughts