Lensmen vs Green Lantern Corps

[Grasscutter]

Y'know Necron...at some level anything beyond Earth Tech can be considered immensely wank.

SW, ST, B5, BSG, Farscape, Dr Who, 40K...etc.

Your point?

I mean for fuck's sake the Lensmen are outlandishly wank as compared to most, making Jedi's on some level look puny as children.

As for the contest...do the Lensmen have some way of truly planetary firepower, because the GL do and have the abiltiy to literally slice planets apart at the highest levels.

So I would like to hear something of the Lensmen combatting this given that literally the GL never has to see his opponent.

That's a good qustion -- how big is the arena and how far apart do they start? I'd like to know more about the nature of their telepathic weapons. So far, I think that's the Lensman's best bet. I don't remember Green Lanterns having any special defenses against telepathic attacks beyond their incredible willpower. If it's something somebody with a strong will can resist, then they have problems. If it can't be resisted, it's still not a guaranteed victory. How fast they can get a shot off with it? Anything slower than thought control and instantaneous firing and I think the Green Lanterns take it.

[Batman]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

[Tasoth]

As for the contest...do the Lensmen have some way of truly planetary firepower, because the GL do and have the abiltiy to literally slice planets apart at the highest levels.

So I would like to hear something of the Lensmen combatting this given that literally the GL never has to see his opponent.

Most of the GP's toys that destroy the planet are either free floating planets, sun beams or lots of weaponry. Again, their best shot, if its allowed at this point, is going into a gestalt with one another.

[Stravo]

I love how some people here think that a race of beings who are a step away from becoming pure thought and whose primary power is telepathy and force manipulation would convenienlty forget to add a defense against psionic attacks when they are the most familiar with those attacks and know how dangerous they can be.

Ohhh...Ohhh....hey let's create a ring that can manipulate Oan energy and form solid objects like we do with our willpower but you know what? Let's make sure our Lanterns that must protect the galaxy from evil have no defense against what we know best...psionics.

[18-Till-I-Die]

What is the limit of the GL thought screens?

The Lensmen might be able to kill them by combining their powers, like in Children of the Lens. Or, if the GL psi screen isnt that impressive, they might not even have to. Thought screens are common in Lensmen, so they might be able to just break though. Thats why i ask what have the Green Lanterns defended against in terms of psychic attacks?

And most of the Lensmen powers seem to require very little actual time. Fractions of a second, like that.

[Batman]

By all means try to quantify psionic attacks, 18-Till-I-Die.
Really. Go ahead.

[Ghost Rider]

Also since we're going "The Lensmen will pool their powers!!!"

Let's just say the GL's do so as well, and the effects are a bit more then "Look a planet/star system went boom!"

[Stravo]

Also since we're going "The Lensmen will pool their powers!!!"

Let's just say the GL's do so as well, and the effects are a bit more then "Look a planet/star system went boom!"

Of course no one looked to my own examples of just three Lanterns pooling their resources to effortlessly hold back the angry population of a planet intent on killing them.

Or the 6 Lanterns that moved a Celestial body that Superman couldn't move.

[18-Till-I-Die]

By all means try to quantify psionic attacks, 18-Till-I-Die.
Really. Go ahead.

I dont follow. I thought almost anything could be quantified. I mean, isnt that a no limits fallacy?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Also since we're going "The Lensmen will pool their powers!!!"

Let's just say the GL's do so as well, and the effects are a bit more then "Look a planet/star system went boom!"

I know i wanted to mention that earlier, that i figure it'd come down to both sides pooling their powers to defend/attack the other until one broke. Thats why i ask how sturdy are GL thought screens? Are they ring generated or bound by will power and focus and can be broken?

[Ghost Rider]

By all means try to quantify psionic attacks, 18-Till-I-Die.
Really. Go ahead.

I dont follow. I thought almost anything could be quantified. I mean, isnt that a no limits fallacy?

You can quantify the effects...so far we haven't seen shit of that.

[18-Till-I-Die]

By all means try to quantify psionic attacks, 18-Till-I-Die.
Really. Go ahead.

I dont follow. I thought almost anything could be quantified. I mean, isnt that a no limits fallacy?

You can quantify the effects...so far we haven't seen shit of that.

Ok i'll go fishing for some quotes as to an individual Lensman power and when they join together and see what i can find. It's very descriptive and volumous so i'm sure we'll find some way to quantify it.

[Batman]

By all means try to quantify psionic attacks, 18-Till-I-Die.
Really. Go ahead.

I dont follow. I thought almost anything could be quantified. I mean, isnt that a no limits fallacy?

Ah, but if anything can be quantified, there should be no problem for you quantifying Lensmen psionic offensive power.
Can you?
A 'no limits fallacy' would be either one of us claiming'Lensmen/GL X managed to mindrape/hypnotise/make-believe-he's-a-potatoe/whatever random guy of the street therefore they can do so to Lensmen/GL X'

What I'm TRYING t say is that UNLESS we have a lot more detailed evidence on either side (which I very much doubt) the only possible answer to arise from this is 'How in Valen's name should I know?'

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Do the Lensmen get to bring any of their other weapons? Now, I haven't finished the series yet (I can't find Gray Lensman at any used bookstores, and I am not spending $18 for it at B&N!) but they have always been the epitome of wank. I mean, don't they have... like...artillery pieces that can blow up planets... and stuff. Every book (so far) has their weaponry increase by at least an order of magnitude and I know they can blow up planets pretty easily and have all kinds of super weapons about on the same scale as the Culture.

Do they get to use any of those fancy toys?

[Grasscutter]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

Really? I didn't know that. Is it an always-on thing? Legacy was that mini-series that went back to when Hal Jordan was just starting out, right?

I always wondered why the GLs didn't wear body armor back when they had the vulnerability to yellow. I'm sure the Guardians could whip up some lightweight but durable body armor with a headpiece that filters gas and sonic attacks. Takes care of anything like that "mental chaff" Prometheus used against Kyle.

Although the DUMBEST counter to a GL was Ra's Al Ghul hypnotizing Kyle into thinking he was blind. I dunno about you guys, but stuff always looks a lot cooler when I visualize it in my head than when I try to draw it.

[Batman]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

Really? I didn't know that. Is it an always-on thing? Legacy was that mini-series that went back to when Hal Jordan was just starting out, right?

Quite the contrary, actually. 'Legacy' was when Hal's best friend had to carry out his will, and, as it turned out, undo the damage Parralax had done, using the Gestalt of Hal's Ring.

[Grasscutter]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

Really? I didn't know that. Is it an always-on thing? Legacy was that mini-series that went back to when Hal Jordan was just starting out, right?

Quite the contrary, actually. 'Legacy' was when Hal's best friend had to carry out his will, and, as it turned out, undo the damage Parralax had done, using the Gestalt of Hal's Ring.

Oh yeah, I know which one you're talking about now. I never picked it up. So this is a new feature that only Kyle's ring and later has?

[Lancer]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

Really? I didn't know that. Is it an always-on thing? Legacy was that mini-series that went back to when Hal Jordan was just starting out, right?

I always wondered why the GLs didn't wear body armor back when they had the vulnerability to yellow. I'm sure the Guardians could whip up some lightweight but durable body armor with a headpiece that filters gas and sonic attacks. Takes care of anything like that "mental chaff" Prometheus used against Kyle.

Although the DUMBEST counter to a GL was Ra's Al Ghul hypnotizing Kyle into thinking he was blind. I dunno about you guys, but stuff always looks a lot cooler when I visualize it in my head than when I try to draw it.

Batman's counter (that Al Ghul stole) only worked because Kyle doesn't wear his ring while he sleeps out of the fear that he will make his dreams (or nightmares) real. They hypnotized him in his sleep to make him think that he was blind, slipped the ring on, and the ring made it real. And it wasn't a general-solution counter to all GL's. It was custom-tailored to Kyle because he depends on his eyes to create ring constructs.

[Grasscutter]

Sorry, bud. As per 'Legacy' at the very latest GL's CAN use their Ring to defend against telepathic attacks. As they have ample reason to expect those (what with that having been tried about 15,000 times before...)

Really? I didn't know that. Is it an always-on thing? Legacy was that mini-series that went back to when Hal Jordan was just starting out, right?

I always wondered why the GLs didn't wear body armor back when they had the vulnerability to yellow. I'm sure the Guardians could whip up some lightweight but durable body armor with a headpiece that filters gas and sonic attacks. Takes care of anything like that "mental chaff" Prometheus used against Kyle.

Although the DUMBEST counter to a GL was Ra's Al Ghul hypnotizing Kyle into thinking he was blind. I dunno about you guys, but stuff always looks a lot cooler when I visualize it in my head than when I try to draw it.

Batman's counter (that Al Ghul stole) only worked because Kyle doesn't wear his ring while he sleeps out of the fear that he will make his dreams (or nightmares) real. They hypnotized him in his sleep to make him think that he was blind, slipped the ring on, and the ring made it real. And it wasn't a general-solution counter to all GL's. It was custom-tailored to Kyle because he depends on his eyes to create ring constructs.

That's the part I don't buy, that he needs to see it to properly form it. I can close my eyes and form very detailed and complex images in my head. And to better explain my earlier post, when I try to draw them in real life, they end up looking like crap =\.

But to be fair, nobody knows what it's really like to work a ring. You might need the visual cue to help you focus. Though I'm sure there's been examples of him doing stuff with the ring behind him or around corners or when his vison's been impaired. Hal and the other Lanterns certainly did. Although, again to be fair, Hal and the other Lanterns never came up with constructs as complicated as Kyle's.

[Ghost Rider]

Kyle's also improved leaps since then with the fact what Fatality drugging him heavily and he was still able to construct something to basically bitch slap her across Manhattan.

[XANATOS]

perhaps the GL and the lensmen deside to team up
and kill Q


XANATOS

[Vendetta]

Although the DUMBEST counter to a GL was Ra's Al Ghul hypnotizing Kyle into thinking he was blind. I dunno about you guys, but stuff always looks a lot cooler when I visualize it in my head than when I try to draw it.

Actually, the very worst was Deathstroke breaking Kyle's fingers, because all at once Kyle's forcefield isn't rigid enough to stop him.

But then it takes a mighty character not to job horribly when Deathstroke's around, even Wolverine has jobbed for him, he's the Anti-Cap.

[Grasscutter]

Although the DUMBEST counter to a GL was Ra's Al Ghul hypnotizing Kyle into thinking he was blind. I dunno about you guys, but stuff always looks a lot cooler when I visualize it in my head than when I try to draw it.

Actually, the very worst was Deathstroke breaking Kyle's fingers, because all at once Kyle's forcefield isn't rigid enough to stop him.

But then it takes a mighty character not to job horribly when Deathstroke's around, even Wolverine has jobbed for him, he's the Anti-Cap.

Thank you for reminding me of yet ANOTHER reason I didn't like Identity Crisis.

[Currald]

Look, I love the Lensmen as much as (okay, probably a lot more than) the next man, but let's be reasonable here.

The average lensman isn't all that fancy. He has telepathy, is absolutely incorruptable (at least in the case of Tellurian lensmen), and a universal translator that applies to writen, encoded, verbal, or other communications. The Lens makes up for certain deficiencies, granting telepathy or humans, a reckless disregard for personal safety (by Palainian standards!) to Palainians, willpower to Velantians, etc. Obviously this is small change compared to the average Green Lantern's abilities. Lensman normally cannot pool their abilities in the way we saw in Children of the Lens. The Arisians and the Children coordinated that effort.

The people worth worrying about are the Second Stage Lensmen (hereafter known as "L2's"). They are extremely powerful psionicists, and have genius-level intelligence above any previously known throughout the galaxy. The Green Lanterns are generally (I'm sorry) pretty dumb. Hal has willpower to sell, but he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. I envision the L2's mentally controlling some of the less-powerful GL's and taking their rings. An L2 with an Oan ring would be nigh-unstoppable, combining their prodigious mental abilities with the ring's nearly-unlimited physical capabilities.

I'd love to keep typing, but RL calls...