Falwell On Homosexuals

[Admiral Valdemar]

Before you unleash the standard viewpoint on this guy, let me just ask for a brief perusal of this document a friend sent me earlier.

Here it is.

Now, given that, what does this say about his often held homophobic stance? Is it true or is it all hyperbole?

[Crossroads Inc.]

But there are millions of gays who are not destroyed. And many of them are in very settled and loving relationships.

There are many alcoholics who can control themselves, and who live reasonably successful lives. That doesn't make alcoholism right. There are many heterosexuals who live immorally. They commit adultery. . . . That doesn't make it right. It makes it very wrong. Today, as a pastor of 22,000 members, we have an epidemic here and around the nation in the middle schools of oral sex. That's something we didn't really deal with at the middle school level 30 years ago. But we're dealing with it this year, and next year it looks like it's going to be worse. They've learned it from the media advertising what the president did. . . . That doesn't make it right. We have to work and help to bring the kids out of it.

There are many homosexuals. There are many promiscuous heterosexuals who are living successfully, who pay their bills, who treat everybody correctly, but who are still wrong. Any time you live outside the marriage bond in a sexual way, you're violating the scriptures.

Yea, that was my favroiute part in the whole interview.. God this guy makes Christians look bad...

[Gunhead]

Does Fred Phelps give the Christian right a bad name?

Fred Phelps does not give the religious right a bad name, because nobody claims kin to that guy. He's a certified nut. He's got papers to prove it--he doesn't, he should. Anybody who goes to a funeral of a little boy who's dead, and his parents are looking at a big placard Fred Phelps puts up saying "Matt is in hell," is either mean as the devil or a nutcase. Either way, he doesn't represent anybody credible.

Would you equate not getting a job at Harvard with what happens to gay and lesbian students in schools in America these days--being called "faggot" all the time, being beaten?

Any kind of verbal or physical violence is wrong, and it should not be permitted. No one should do such things, but as Christians, we should not be involved in that kind of thing. As long as we have human beings . . . you're always going to have those kinds of guys who took Matt Shepard and killed him. You're always going to have the nuts and the fringe people on the extremes. But we should work very, very hard to that 95% of people in the middle who don't do that, and do our best to restrain those few people from doing it.

At least he comes consistently against violence, which I think is a good thing.
Not that would make us bosom buddies. His reasoning why people are gay is so flawed I nearly fell off my chair. By his reasoning, if I had met the right guy, I'd be gay.

-Gunhead

[Rye]

Before you unleash the standard viewpoint on this guy, let me just ask for a brief perusal of this document a friend sent me earlier.

Here it is.

Now, given that, what does this say about his often held homophobic stance? Is it true or is it all hyperbole?

He is of course homophobic, as evidenced by his insanity regarding homosexuality as a disease. He wants to eradicate it, and I kinda doubt he's unemotional about it like he would be with say shrimp eating. I get the feeling the "judge the sin not the person" types are most likely covering their asses (excuse the pun) so they can say they hate homosexuality while not poisoning the well against possible future converts and the media.

[Tommy J]

When I started to read the article and he got to the part comparing homosexuality to alcoholism I had to stop because it was making me angry. If there is any political double-speak it's he has to hide his pure hatred for us because it's politically incorrect to do otherwise. I sense that if he had his way, we'd all be in special treatment centers today undergoing psychoanalysis to 'cure' us.

It's pathetic and disturbing.

[Wicked Pilot]

Obviously, you believe that homosexuality is a choice.

Oh yes--all behaviors.

Do you believe that it's a choice for everyone? Do you believe there may be some people for whom it's not a choice, that it's their sexual orientation?

No, I don't believe that. I believe that all of us are born heterosexual, physically created with a plumbing that's heterosexual, and created with the instincts and desires that are basically, fundamentally, heterosexual. But I believe that we have the ability to experiment in every direction. Experimentation can lead to habitual practice, and then to a lifestyle. But I don't believe anyone begins a homosexual. They begin the way God made them: male, female, with all the dispositions that are built in. If they choose to be bisexual or transgendered or homosexual, they're human beings, and they have the ability to do it. But as a Christian, biblically, scripture makes very clear that it's an immoral position. Even Romans I says that at some point, when they finally are just so committed to doing that. The quote from the King James is, "God gives them over to a reprobate mind," or a malformed mind.

And then he goes on to comparing homosexuals to drug dealers, bank robbers, adulters, etc, to try and get that point across. When someone claims that homosexuality is this great temptation that requires the power of Christ to resist it makes me wonder if they have any particular urges they're trying to keep secret. What's wrong Falwell, getting hardons from Spongebob?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Having finally read it and discussed with Rye, it does seem that like the WTC attack comments, it's a little vague in many respect to cover his arse.

[Durandal]

If a racist doesn't advocate violence against a particular race, but wants to get legislation passed to deprive them of their Constitutional liberties, we don't give him a free pass. Falwell is still a bigot, folks. He just happens to be one who doesn't believe in violence. From that interview, you might even think it's possible to have a reasonable conversation with him, but you can't.

If you asked him something like, "Not everyone is a Christian. Can you explain to non-Christians why homosexuality hurts them?", he'd probably answer with, "Well Jews base their faith on the Old Testament too, so it's not that hard."

[Crossroads Inc.]

If you asked him something like, "Not everyone is a Christian. Can you explain to non-Christians why homosexuality hurts them?", he'd probably answer with, "Well Jews base their faith on the Old Testament too, so it's not that hard."

*claps* Kudos Durandal, Kudos...

To this day I have longed to ask that Bigot to explaine to me how my Gay "Choice" hurts Hindus, or Muslums, or Buddahists Et Al. Or how Two Gays marrying can bring down society outside of America.

[Straha]

While I think that was bad, it's not as bad as it could have been. At least he's against violence, open hatred (the fact that his followers do hate homosexuals is apparent, but at least he's telling them to accept and love them, unlike other notable preachers), and Fred Phelps.

He's an ass, but at least he's not an extreme asshole, which is a good thing.

[Morilore]

I wonder how far back you have to go to see such persons being considered dangerously liberal? I'm betting not far. But DAMN, that interview makes me want to talk to him. I know I wouldn't get anywhere. I just want to see how he'd respond to more convincing arguments.

[Jalinth]

To this day I have longed to ask that Bigot to explaine to me how my Gay "Choice" hurts Hindus, or Muslums, or Buddahists Et Al. Or how Two Gays marrying can bring down society outside of America.

That is always my question - how does two people getting married impact anyone else who gets married? In my somewhat libertarian view, your rights stop at my nose. In this case, the issue is swinging miles away from my nose, so why should I care? (I don't) Get married or don't. I'd actually prefer to allow everyone to be married if they so choose. It allows adults to decide whether they wish to access all of the benefits and detriments of being formally married. To arbitrarily cut-off some group because it isn't "right", without any fundamental reason behind it (apart from bigotry) is not acceptable.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Phelps believes in pre-destination. We don't have free will.

[Lord Pounder]

Yet he claims that homosexuality is a personaly choice. A fundy contradicting himsefl oh the shock, the horror.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

You touched on femininity in boys, and masculinity in girls. Is that what disturbs you about the Teletubby thing?

Not at all. I've never seen the Teletubbies. I never commented one word on Tinky Winky. Brill's Content has already come out lambasting the AP writer, David Reed, for creating that story.

That never happened?

Never happened. . . .

Hrmmmmmmmmmm........

[Queeb Salaron]

I love the argument that this guy makes against homosexuality. It's one of my favorite Christian arguments to bash.

"God made men and women for a reason. God wanted men and women to be heterosexual."

Couple of counter-arguments that weren't raised in that otherwise rather intelligent article:

1) God also gave some men and women non-functional genitalia, disformed genitalia, inadequate genitalia, etc. Does God not want these people to reproduce? What sin have they committed to deserve such punishment?

2) How do you, Reverand Falwell, presume to know the will of God? Is it not possible that man was created as a non-specifically sexual being, and that heterosexuality is merely more common than homosexuality? Does Jesus speak on homosexuality? If not, can we be certain that homophobic references in the Bible are not the scorn of man, but of God? And if we cannot be absolutely, one-hundred percent certain that all homophobic Biblical passages are untainted by the voice of the homophobic man, is it not safer to accept homosexuals as they are, in case the Will of God has been misinterpreted?

[Petrosjko]

I love the argument that this guy makes against homosexuality. It's one of my favorite Christian arguments to bash.

"God made men and women for a reason. God wanted men and women to be heterosexual."

Couple of counter-arguments that weren't raised in that otherwise rather intelligent article:

1) God also gave some men and women non-functional genitalia, disformed genitalia, inadequate genitalia, etc. Does God not want these people to reproduce? What sin have they committed to deserve such punishment?

2) How do you, Reverand Falwell, presume to know the will of God? Is it not possible that man was created as a non-specifically sexual being, and that heterosexuality is merely more common than homosexuality? Does Jesus speak on homosexuality? If not, can we be certain that homophobic references in the Bible are not the scorn of man, but of God? And if we cannot be absolutely, one-hundred percent certain that all homophobic Biblical passages are untainted by the voice of the homophobic man, is it not safer to accept homosexuals as they are, in case the Will of God has been misinterpreted?

He addresses your latter point by saying that the word of God, as written in the scripture, is exactly what He meant for it to be. The pen of man, the word of God.

Which of course would tend to indicate God rambles a lot and can't keep track of his various positions on affairs, among other things. But hey, nobody's perfect...

[Pint0 Xtreme]

To me, it just sounds as if Falwell is preaching his hatred through a filter of political correctness.

[Petrosjko]

To me, it just sounds as if Falwell is preaching his hatred through a filter of political correctness.

It could either be cynical evil, lying through his teeth in order to stay PC, or it could be sincere devotion to a sick creed.

Either way, it's abysmal. One is more acceptable than the other, though, if he does actively work to discourage gay bashing.

Given my experiences with preachers, I'm extremely dubious of any of the bastards being sincere, though.

[Molyneux]

I really have to say, he appears to be better than that jackass Fred Phelps...

Then again, that's like saying that it's not as bad to get bitten by a black widow spider as by a black mamba.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Falwell on Homosexuals

Worst... porn... ever.

[General Brock]

Plowed about halfway through. Nothing I haven't read before. This hate the sin and love the sinner idea has got to be inflammatory to anyone who dosen't regard homosexuality a sin. Like, what an insult to those whom it is an expression of love.

And Fallwell thinks his is a compassionate and generous attitude. I don't think he's an aggressive homophobe, but there is that sin of omission thing. He would probably be as forgiving to gay-bashers as well; hate but forgive the messy un-PC violence, love the motive.

I get the impression he is the last of the high-flying televanglists, isn't he? I don't follow TV much anymore.

[Lord Zentei]

Falwell on Homosexuals

Worst... porn... ever.

Curse you for giving me that mental image.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Falwell on Homosexuals

Worst... porn... ever.

Curse you for giving me that mental image.

[Lord Zentei]

I love the argument that this guy makes against homosexuality. It's one of my favorite Christian arguments to bash.

"God made men and women for a reason. God wanted men and women to be heterosexual."

Couple of counter-arguments that weren't raised in that otherwise rather intelligent article:
<snip>

Not to mention that God created Adam fist and then created Eve after Adam couldn't find a "help meet" among the animals.