Clone Wars Chapter 21 to 25, revelations on Jedi vs Droid

[Connor MacLeod]

*ahem*

Various things:

Vader the cripple: We see vader in TESB ripping anchored machinery from the walls. Mike has often commented about just how much power this is and it effectively means some tens or even hundreds of thousands of newtons worth of force (more or less.) This is roughly analogous to the force /momentum for a 100-gee acceleration (like in TPM.)

For Vader to move at oh.. 40 mph (roughly what we see in TPM.. about 17 m/s from a stop (disregarding the short timeframe) requires at LEAST several thousand newtons worth of force. From the anchored machinery, he could easily move an order of magnitude (or more) faster, if he chose.

Force combat: There are LOTS of different ways the Force can be used in combat - influencing the mind/illusions (according to the AOTC VD, a favorite trick of the sith.) Telekinetic tricks (either directly at the target, or indirectly by flinging objects at ech other.. the latter apparently occured between Obi-Wan and Maul according to the TPM novelization. the AOTC novelization mentions Anakin and Yoda hampering an opponent's mobility with the Force.), or enhanced abilities (super speed, strength, whatnot.)

[Connor MacLeod]

It appears that like Yoda's hyper-speed sword techique, Force Fu is Mace's special tallent. Probably something he honed over years of experience, a form of tactile telekinesis combined with some alien martial arts he picked up maybe. Like Yoda's speed, it proably requires years of experience and the ability to retain concentration and focus while multitasking, so you can concentrate on localized Force pushes while punching and moving, we see most Jedi have to stop and think before they can use the Force so Mace must be very focused to be able to do it so easily while on the move.

Just my two cents.

Mace and Yoda, by virtue of their experience and training (Ex: Mace's Vaapad/Form VII training) clearly are less affected by the "shroud of the Dark side" than other, less-experienced Jedi. Arguably, this may mean they do (to some limited or indirect degree) tap into the "Dark Side" in some way to do some of the stuff they do. Their training and experience helps them to be able to do this without succumbing, but at the same time it may also require preparation to do so (the AOTC novel does suggest this.) Or it may require extended periods of recovery that prevent its frequent use (their discipline and skill aren't infinite.)

[Striderteen]

I disagree. PT jedi moves are much faster. The time they take to strike, the numbers of strikes they execute. Hell they even swing their blades much faster and respond much faster to deflect an incoming blow.

In swordfighting, faster does not equal better. I'm much faster than my fencing coach (former national-level fencer, but he's in his 70s now), and yet in three years I haven't been able to land a strike on him ONCE -- precision, technique, and timing will beat raw speed EVERY TIME.

[18-Till-I-Die]

snip.

Mace and Yoda, by virtue of their experience and training (Ex: Mace's Vaapad/Form VII training) clearly are less affected by the "shroud of the Dark side" than other, less-experienced Jedi. Arguably, this may mean they do (to some limited or indirect degree) tap into the "Dark Side" in some way to do some of the stuff they do. Their training and experience helps them to be able to do this without succumbing, but at the same time it may also require preparation to do so (the AOTC novel does suggest this.) Or it may require extended periods of recovery that prevent its frequent use (their discipline and skill aren't infinite.)

Could it have to do with the 'sects' of the Jedi, perhaps?

IIRC, there is a bit of a difference between the Unifying Force and Living Force...so maybe Yoda and Mace, maybe even Qui-Gon and Obi, represent the Unifying Force--being they are more balanced, possessing both Light and Dark. While the Living Force is more common but less balanced, choosing purely the Lightside, but loosing the tap into the Dark in the process. And Palpy is pure Darkside, and can use all it's power, but like the Living Force users he instead has lost touch with the Lightside completely.

If you think about it, it kinda makes sense...

[Rommie2006]

FINALLY. Somebody who speaks sensibly. Although I am still quite skeptical, but with the recent change in SW canonity, that comic would be considered low level canon right?
I appreciate you bringing this evidence out to light. Now I admit that perhaps Vader is not as weak or slow as I had thought he was. Now if only you other folks could have highlighted this example before we would have avoided a pointless 6 page long arguement.

Or, you could stop backpedaling and admit that you were wrong from the start about this topic.

And as Ghost Rider said, Infinities is not canon. Read the goddamned stickies for fuck's sake. Right here. Fifth freakin' thread on the page. Infinities is N-level, or non-continuity canon.

Ok, I'm not well versed with the new Canon rules and categories. My mistake.

And if I am backpedaling, I guess you Vader's supporters could have come up with raw concrete canon examples, instead of giving hypothetical/theoratical arguments that can always be rebuffed by an opposing point of view that has an equal possibility of being real. The easiest and most convincing way to settle the issue would be to have canon proof, from EU if need be

If you could have provided canon examples or evidence, instead of beating round the bush on modern day kendo martial artist or the stuntsman crap, you may have been more convincing. The recent post by Connor (if accurate) has gone quite a way to convince me that Vader may not be as crippled as I had thought.

So I can say I was also getting irritated by a bunch of pple who insist on their viewpoint but did not bring anything concrete to back them up. Then theystart yelling at pple(me) when there is a difference in opinion.

If you had some figures I would have shut up and admitted my error in judgement. But all you presented was a series of opinions, which even some of you have admitted your opinions to be biased by your Vader fandom.

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, I did present something that PT Jedi never showed in the Movie, yet you ignore again and again.

Han fires shot, Vader hand is down.

Vader LIFTS HAND UP.

So DUMBFUCK, HOW MANY CRIPPLED OLD MEN CAN MOVE FAST ENOUGH TO BLOCK 400 m/s BLOT OF ENERGY?!

Oh wait, you want fancy footwork must qualify to show he is crippled

Jesus fuck you are one annoying little Wall of Ignorance.