Thermal Detonator Yield in "Shadows of the Empire"

BringerOfLight · Post by **BringerOfLight** » 2005-04-04 06:50pm

It might just me and my fuzzy memory but didn't the novelisation of "Shadows of the Empire" describe hand-held thermal detonators with yields in the megaton range? I'm going to see if I can find the novel this weekend but does anyone have it handy right now? In addition, how high would this figure be on the canon-scale were it to be confirmed?

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-04-04 08:13pm

IIRC the novel describes the lower levels of Xizor's skyscraper being blown out by the detonation, and the building collapses in on itself. We can already do this with simple dynamite and TNT; it's a complex procedure involving mapping out key structural pillars, but done right glass on neighboring buildings won't even be cracked.

Of course, Coruscant skyscrapers are a much bigger deal; nevertheless, I doubt the explosion would have been much more than low-kiloton range. This is purely speculative, though...

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-04-04 08:20pm

A megaton-range thermal detonator would be the Davy Crockett of throwable explosives: Go on, try to survive pitching one.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-04-04 08:24pm

The boy shruged. "Like it stands, we're dead anyway. We have nothing to lose. How about you? You ready to give all this up?" He waved at the building around them. "This is a class-A thermal detonator, you know what that means?"

Some of the guards knew, to judge from the sudden intakes of breath and muttered curses.

"I think your bluffing."
"Only one way to find out. Your move."

Xizor thoguht about it. If the boy wasn't bluffing and somebody shot him, a class-A TD would take out several floor of this building in a heartbeat. WIth that many of the support griders erased, the eighty odd stories above would collapse.

And then later Lando throws one down into the basement chute and everyone escapes to the roof. As the bomb detonates:

The Millennium Falcon spun away. As it did, Luke saw the building shake and the landing pad fall away, then drop straight down, like a tower of sand with the base kicked out. Smoke rose; a terrible screech like a giant nail being pulled from wet wood came with the smoke. Blasts of fire erupted skyward. Giant electrical conduits sprayed multicolored sparks. Things exploded and hurled shrapnel at them. The ship rocked under the impacts-
Dash hit the thrusters and the Falcon leaped upward-
Below, the castle of Xizor, underlord of Black Sun, collapsed into a heep of flaming, smoking ruin.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-04-04 08:24pm

He drops a thermal detonator down a chute in Xixor's palace. It falls all the way to the bottom floors, explodes, and collapses the whole building.

This is on Coruscant. It collapsed a CORUSCANTI PALACE.

These aren't normal buildings, you know. These are Coruscant buildings, and that one was unusually big.

While its not megaton yield (it only had to blow out one floor, that topples the building), it's still pretty dang powerful.

EDIT: Doh, posted a second too late.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-04-04 08:25pm

White Haven wrote:A megaton-range thermal detonator would be the Davy Crockett of throwable explosives: Go on, try to survive pitching one.

The same goes for a low KT one. Which effects suggest the one in SOTE was.
While I admit we have no clue on Wars building materials I submit since as they can't POSSIBLY be weaker than modern day ones, they build ABSURDLY larger buildings than we do, and we're NOT talking of precisely placed demolition charges but a single explosive placed somewhere in the basement (presumably), low-KT is certainly not excessive. And MT range might very well be viable.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-04-04 08:29pm

Batman wrote:
White Haven wrote:A megaton-range thermal detonator would be the Davy Crockett of throwable explosives: Go on, try to survive pitching one.
The same goes for a low KT one. Which effects suggest the one in SOTE was.
While I admit we have no clue on Wars building materials I submit since as they can't POSSIBLY be weaker than modern day ones, they build ABSURDLY larger buildings than we do, and we're NOT talking of precisely placed demolition charges but a single explosive placed somewhere in the basement (presumably), low-KT is certainly not excessive. And MT range might very well be viable.

Looks to me like a "Class A" thermal detonator IS KT level. But its not designed to be thrown at people, it's designed for heavy demolition or suicide.

I don't know about normal thermal detonators, but this "Class A" one is probably a heavy demolition detonator designed for wiping out entire floors of buildings.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2005-04-04 08:37pm

Barring more detailed information on Coruscant building materials at the time, I see no reason to disagree with Praxis.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-04-04 10:43pm

As an aside, isn't the idea of a fist-sized explosive capable of destroying massive skyscrapers (without precise placement or detonation) just.. scary?

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2005-04-04 11:20pm

From what I imagine, it's comparable to a tactical nuke.

like one of those suitcase nukes that are supposedly running around.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-04-04 11:48pm

Cykeisme wrote:As an aside, isn't the idea of a fist-sized explosive capable of destroying massive skyscrapers (without precise placement or detonation) just.. scary?

That's progress for ya. It's a result of the race between arms and armor. Make a shield that can block modern weapons, and someone will develop a weapon that, typically through brute force, defeats the shield.

This is the same universe that has GT level weapons on civilian freighters, guerilla fighters using a shield that can block GT level weapons ("The shield is strong enough to deflect any bombardment," Veers, ESB), and a space station that not only can push through a stronger shield (See Alderaan in ANH), but also blow up the planet beneath it.

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2005-04-05 12:18am

CivilWarMan wrote: This is the same universe that has GT level weapons on civilian freighters, guerilla fighters using a shield that can block GT level weapons ("The shield is strong enough to deflect any bombardment," Veers, ESB), and a space station that not only can push through a stronger shield (See Alderaan in ANH), but also blow up the planet beneath it.

What's even scarier is that, after breaking Alderaan's shield, blowing the planet itself apart is trivial, to the point where it would have been diffiult to break the shield without destroying the planet.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-04-05 10:16am

it is also possible, that the explosion of the thermal-detonator caused the generators or conduits of the structural-integrity, eh, tensor-fields of the building to fail. After that Xixor's palace became a victim of its own size and mass, when it collapsed. (And yes, i know, that until now nowhere are tensor-fields mentioned as far as buildings are concerned).

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-04-05 12:04pm

Is Class A the kind Leia threatened Jabba with? Or the 1 meter long tube ones?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-04-05 12:14pm

According to the comic, Leia used the same model as Lando.

Ups: I'm a Boing.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-04-05 12:15pm

FTeik wrote:According to the comic, Leia used the same model as Lando.

wow

just think what one of the 1 meter ones could do then.

buzz_knox · Post by **buzz_knox** » 2005-04-05 01:16pm

Aren't thermal detonators described as being somewhat different than your normal explosive? They don't produce a blast wave but generate a sharply defined sphere of effect: everything within the zone is destroyed, evertyhing outside is essentially fine. At least, that's what I seem to recall from the Essential Guide to Weapons and Tech.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-05 02:07pm

Everything within a given sphere is vapourised.

Of course, if the EGWT writers knew their stuff, they'd know that this produces a blast anyway, of vapourised material.

buzz_knox · Post by **buzz_knox** » 2005-04-05 02:24pm

NecronLord wrote:Everything within a given sphere is vapourised.

Of course, if the EGWT writers knew their stuff, they'd know that this produces a blast anyway, of vapourised material.

True enough. I just wanted to be sure I had the correct mechanism of destruction in mind.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-04-05 03:55pm

buzz_knox wrote:Aren't thermal detonators described as being somewhat different than your normal explosive? They don't produce a blast wave but generate a sharply defined sphere of effect: everything within the zone is destroyed, evertyhing outside is essentially fine. At least, that's what I seem to recall from the Essential Guide to Weapons and Tech.

Thats the same thing stated in Star by Star.

HOWEVER, it should be noted that those that create the spherical blasts may simply be of a different type. "Type A" blew up the building. Perhaps the spherical blast ones are designed for combat, or are "Type B", or something.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-04-05 05:07pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
FTeik wrote:According to the comic, Leia used the same model as Lando.
wow just think what one of the 1 meter ones could do then.

One meter thermal-detonators? Where are those mentioned? Until now i was under the impression, that it is an infantry-weapon.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-04-05 05:34pm

FTeik wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
FTeik wrote:According to the comic, Leia used the same model as Lando.
wow just think what one of the 1 meter ones could do then.
One meter thermal-detonators? Where are those mentioned? Until now i was under the impression, that it is an infantry-weapon.

Vector Prime, is the only one I can think of. The President of Serpindial blows up the Dovin basal that pulled the moon down with one.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-04-05 06:43pm

Vector Prime, is the only one I can think of. The President of Serpindial blows up the Dovin basal that pulled the moon down with one.

Holy mother of fuck, did it describe the explosion? That would've been absolutely massive.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-04-05 08:59pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Is Class A the kind Leia threatened Jabba with? Or the 1 meter long tube ones?

In RotJ, its a Class A. Stormtroopers have Class C's strapped to their lower backs. Class B's are never seen in the movies, but are similar in dimensions to lightsabres. There was a really long one in the NJO I recall, but it wasn't any of the three.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-04-05 09:00pm

Lone_Prodigy wrote:
Vector Prime, is the only one I can think of. The President of Serpindial blows up the Dovin basal that pulled the moon down with one.
Holy mother of fuck, did it describe the explosion? That would've been absolutely massive.

No, the Dovin Basal was deep in the planet's crust, the guy jumped into the hole and fell alllll the way down before it went off. But everyone felt the impact.

I don't recall them saying the thermal detonator was a meter wide though, that'd be HUGE...