booze, bread, brothels, and wheels

[The Yosemite Bear]

discussions about things that all of the anchient cities had, which was the most nessarry ingrediants for building the anchient cities.

[Queeb Salaron]

discussions about things that all of the anchient cities had, which was the most nessarry ingrediants for building the anchient cities.

Pompei had brothels that you could walk into and order various services off pictoral menus on the walls. It was like McDonalds.

--Welcome to ValuBoink, may I take your order?
--Yeah, I'll have a number three with a side of anal...
--Number three, side of anal. Anything else?
--Uh, yeah... what do you guys want? [mumbling] Okay, a number five with a Pearl Necklace, and a number one, but can I get that with the black chick instead?
--Sure. That's a number three, side of anal; a number five with a Pearl Necklace; and a number one, supersized. Anything else?
--I think that's it.
--$734.67, and your number is 809. Thank you for visiting ValuBoink. Have a nice day.

And if you don't think that's funny, you're in the wrong place. That's a funny joke, man.

[The Guid]

I believe there was a quote about "Bread and Games." If we're talking about Rome you are the ruler and you are popular because you bribe the people to like you by giving out free bread and paying for the Theatre, or the games be they races or fights.

[Petrosjko]

I believe there was a quote about "Bread and Games." If we're talking about Rome you are the ruler and you are popular because you bribe the people to like you by giving out free bread and paying for the Theatre, or the games be they races or fights.

And that always fucks your revenue from the town. Better to just let them rebel and then choose the exterminate option when you retake it. Then you can build a Curia with the revenue you've reaped from the reconquest...

[The Yosemite Bear]

I believe there was a quote about "Bread and Games." If we're talking about Rome you are the ruler and you are popular because you bribe the people to like you by giving out free bread and paying for the Theatre, or the games be they races or fights.

And that always fucks your revenue from the town. Better to just let them rebel and then choose the exterminate option when you retake it. Then you can build a Curia with the revenue you've reaped from the reconquest...

shouldn't that be "Raped" we're pretty sure them legionaires were doing something before they nailing people to them crosses, and besides, buildings always get severly damaged when you choose exterminatus, I think that might be part of it.

what I was mentioning, was also that the Great pyramids couldn't have been built if the bread ovens and "liquid bread" distilleries weren't there in the first place, along with the other methods of keeping the upper and lower classes happy. and all that agricultureal good stuff would never have been posible if there wasn't something to haul it in.

[Broomstick]

Ancient Central and South America had large civilizations including monumental architecture, roads, armies, and writing - but they didn't have the wheel (outside of a few children's toys), and I've never heard of them having brothels. The closest thing they had to beer was a slightly fermented corn drink, and they didn't have bread though they did have maize and tortillas.

So I guess it comes down to bread and beer - with beer possibly optional.

[Mobiboros]

The closest thing they had to beer was a slightly fermented corn drink...

And several other kinds of alcoholic beverages including one made from grain which needed to be chewed and mixed with saliva before fermenting called "Chicha" I believe.

[HemlockGrey]

And that always fucks your revenue from the town. Better to just let them rebel and then choose the exterminate option when you retake it. Then you can build a Curia with the revenue you've reaped from the reconquest...

The Circus Maximus is usually a better deal since, IIRC, it costs less and provides units which are more useful than gladiators, anyway. But arenas/coliseums are usually the last public stability upgrade I build anyway, after all the baths/theaters, temples, etc.

That said, while bread was the only thing necessary for the cities themselves (agricultural surplus being vital to the development of an artisan and merchant class), the wheel is vital for the development of a viable civilization capable of expanding its influence. Booze also helps keep the peasants and slaves in line.

I'm sure that the very first ancient city consisted of forty houses, a granary, a palace, a pub, and a strip club (VIP room extra).

[Broomstick]

The closest thing they had to beer was a slightly fermented corn drink...

And several other kinds of alcoholic beverages including one made from grain which needed to be chewed and mixed with saliva before fermenting called "Chicha" I believe.

Yes, that's the one - the Central/South Americans pretty much had maize/corn and that's it for grain (North America had some minor grasses that would do in a pinch). Wheat, rice, millet, sorghum, and so on are all old-world grains.

[Lord Zentei]

Trade, manufacturing, protection and administrative/religious functions are the primart roles of towns and cities.

One of the essentials for a true city is sufficiently advanced food production that you can have people specializing in other fields. Otherwise you have a (fortified) town/village inhabited by farmers. (Then again, what exactly is a "city"?)

[Mobiboros]

Yes, that's the one - the Central/South Americans pretty much had maize/corn and that's it for grain (North America had some minor grasses that would do in a pinch). Wheat, rice, millet, sorghum, and so on are all old-world grains.

Grain is far from the only fermentable plant product though.
Potatos for one (which is abundant in South America since that is where they come from)
Honey (as someone who makes mead I can tell you honey is /easy/ to ferment. Maple Syrup can also be used which is new world also i believe)).
Berries and Fruits are also easily fermented.
Hell, you can ferment dandelions, carrots, many flowers, pure cane sugar. Never think that humans will relent in the quest for the next good buzz.

[Alyrium Denryle]

discussions about things that all of the anchient cities had, which was the most nessarry ingrediants for building the anchient cities.

Pompei had brothels that you could walk into and order various services off pictoral menus on the walls. It was like McDonalds.

--Welcome to ValuBoink, may I take your order?
--Yeah, I'll have a number three with a side of anal...
--Number three, side of anal. Anything else?
--Uh, yeah... what do you guys want? [mumbling] Okay, a number five with a Pearl Necklace, and a number one, but can I get that with the black chick instead?
--Sure. That's a number three, side of anal; a number five with a Pearl Necklace; and a number one, supersized. Anything else?
--I think that's it.
--$734.67, and your number is 809. Thank you for visiting ValuBoink. Have a nice day.

And if you don't think that's funny, you're in the wrong place. That's a funny joke, man.

not only did they have a pictoral menu, but they also had a variable price system based upon length of service, and text was in both latin and greek.

In order for cities to even be formed, people needed to practice agriculture. So it is both bread and booze as there is some debate over what people figured out they could make first...

[The Spartan]

In order for cities to even be formed, people needed to practice agriculture. So it is both bread and booze as there is some debate over what people figured out they could make first...

Last I heard it, the leading thinking was that beer came first. It had something to do with needing the beer to get the yeast to make the bread. They also said something about beer remaining the favored grain storage method because it kept longer than bread. (plus it got you drunk) But it's been a while since I heard any of this and it was 2nd or 3rd hand so I can't vouch for it's accuracy.

[Broomstick]

Just remember that what we call "beer" and what some ancient civilization called "beer" isn't necessarially the same thing. There's some evidence that what was called "beer" in the ancient Middle East was more like a thin mush and not fermented as long as what we call "beer". Likewise, wine in ancient Greece was considerably different than what France and California produce today - among other things, ancient Greek wine was intended to be diluted before drinking (and they still got smashed on the stuff)

[Mayabird]

Just remember that what we call "beer" and what some ancient civilization called "beer" isn't necessarially the same thing. There's some evidence that what was called "beer" in the ancient Middle East was more like a thin mush and not fermented as long as what we call "beer". Likewise, wine in ancient Greece was considerably different than what France and California produce today - among other things, ancient Greek wine was intended to be diluted before drinking (and they still got smashed on the stuff)

Maybe instead of saying "bread and beer" we should be saying "staple grain crop and some beverage with alcohol in it" as the basis of civilization, but that's a bit wordy.