A difficult moral question.

Rathark · Post by **Rathark** » 2002-11-17 04:10am

Imagine you are precognitive. You know from experience that your premonitions are accurate. Usually the details are hazy, and the future CAN be changed; but without your own intervention, the consequences you forsee happen more or less the way you predict.

One day, you are at an airport, and you are staring at one airliner (let's call it Flight xxx) that has yet to be boarded. You look into its immediate future, and know that it is going to crash hours after takeoff. All 500+ passengers are going to die.

But the premonition does not end there. Something is discovered in the wreckage. Your vision will not permit you to see it, but this something explains to investigators PRECISELY why the airliner crashed. This leads to unprecedented research into aerodynamics, engineering and airline safety. New inventions, designs and techniques result from this one freakish, fateful discovery.

In 10 years, worldwide airline fatalities will drop 60% because of this discovery.

In 20 years, they would drop 85%.

By the 2030's, aerodynamics reach a point where only one airliner crashes per year, although 2034 is considered a bad year because 2 airliners crash for the first time in 7 years.

Thousands of lives would be saved. But for this to be possible, all 500+ passengers of Flight xxx must be sacrificed. The flaw must be revealed for the discovery to be made at all.

"Flight xxx will commence boarding in five minutes."

The announcement snaps you out of your trance. This is your chance to make your decision - save hundreds of lives here and now, our save thousands of lives through your inaction.

What do you do?

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-17 04:15am

I dunno, outweighing he few over the many wold be difficult, I'd be leaning toward inaction, becuase no one hear he call or laught at it.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 04:21am

Unless there were other precogs to determine what it would be like given action, I couldn't really make another decision other than inaction, as guilty as I would feela bout it afterwards.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-11-17 04:26am

Do nothing.

Its hard, but it is the greater good.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-17 04:39am

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. As hard as that choice may be.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 04:46am

well, if you see the passengers boarding, I'm certainly sure that i would go to action, but well, considered how much people die in flight crashes...if i wouldn'tr see em, I prolly wouldn't go to action

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2002-11-17 05:22am

How exactly CAN I save the flight? Run to airport authorities and say that I can see the future?
I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off even if I wanted to.

But after the crash, I'd lock myself at home, cut off the TV, newspapers and the internet and try not to feel like trash. Or try to get over it. Or get totally drunk.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 05:32am

PeZook wrote:How exactly CAN I save the flight? Run to airport authorities and say that I can see the future?
I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off even if I wanted to.

good point....but u could say that there's a bomb on the plane and stop them from starting...they'd examine the plane and maybe find the problem

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2002-11-17 05:42am

Lex wrote:
PeZook wrote:How exactly CAN I save the flight? Run to airport authorities and say that I can see the future?
I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off even if I wanted to.
good point....but u could say that there's a bomb on the plane and stop them from starting...they'd examine the plane and maybe find the problem

As I wrote, I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off. They would start asking questions, like for example, how do I know there's a bomb onboard. I simply can't lie convincingly. Hell, during my last course on interpersonal communications, I got to describe a picture during en excersise that was supposed to highlight some involuntary symptoms exhibited when a man is lying (sp?). Most people in the group thought I wasn't telling the truth, even though I desribed the picture as it was

But thats besides the point. Planes are checked before every flight, and since the thing that caused the crash supposedly led to a revolution in aircraft engineering, I doubt they'd find it when looking for a bomb.

And just imagine what would happen when it turns out there was no bomb aboard, they off the plane and it crashes. Who are the paranoid authorities gonna take for questioning then?

I'd crumble under the stress, man

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-17 05:43am

Lex wrote:
PeZook wrote:How exactly CAN I save the flight? Run to airport authorities and say that I can see the future?
I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off even if I wanted to.
good point....but u could say that there's a bomb on the plane and stop them from starting...they'd examine the plane and maybe find the problem

They'd probably arrest you. Even if there's not a bomb you're not supposed to do that. It's like yelling fire when there isn't one.

data_link · Post by **data_link** » 2002-11-17 05:45am

Personally, I'd just get some popcorn and watch - I'm not about to prevent people from learning a lesson that could save thousands of lives for the sake of my own conscience.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 05:50am

neoolong wrote:
Lex wrote:
PeZook wrote:How exactly CAN I save the flight? Run to airport authorities and say that I can see the future?
I'm not eloquent enough to pull that off even if I wanted to.
good point....but u could say that there's a bomb on the plane and stop them from starting...they'd examine the plane and maybe find the problem
They'd probably arrest you. Even if there's not a bomb you're not supposed to do that. It's like yelling fire when there isn't one.

well, at least you would save 500 lives...they dont know that there's no bomb, so they will have to be sure...and as i said, while searching for a bomb, they'd might find the problem which would cause the crash

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-17 07:16am

Me = Aerospace Engineer.

Me not board*. Hell the future can be changed, but who am I to play God? I mean if I stop the flight and save all these peoples lives I will have a lot of explaining to do, and then what? Research Lab? Be a precog like in Minority Report?

*This all assumes that the advance in flight can only be achieved if this plane crashes fully loaded with 500 people on that day on that exact same spot, and that I can't just fly it out with just the pilots (who have ejection seats) latter and thus save 500 people and find the prize aswell.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2002-11-17 07:56am

Crown wrote:Me = Aerospace Engineer.

Me not board*. Hell the future can be changed, but who am I to play God? I mean if I stop the flight and save all these peoples lives I will have a lot of explaining to do, and then what? Research Lab? Be a precog like in Minority Report?

*This all assumes that the advance in flight can only be achieved if this plane crashes fully loaded with 500 people on that day on that exact same spot, and that I can't just fly it out with just the pilots (who have ejection seats) latter and thus save 500 people and find the prize aswell.

Umm...since when did airliner pilots have ejection seats?

KG

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 07:59am

kheegan wrote:
Crown wrote:Me = Aerospace Engineer.

Me not board*. Hell the future can be changed, but who am I to play God? I mean if I stop the flight and save all these peoples lives I will have a lot of explaining to do, and then what? Research Lab? Be a precog like in Minority Report?

*This all assumes that the advance in flight can only be achieved if this plane crashes fully loaded with 500 people on that day on that exact same spot, and that I can't just fly it out with just the pilots (who have ejection seats) latter and thus save 500 people and find the prize aswell.
Umm...since when did airliner pilots have ejection seats?

KG

they don't

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-17 08:03am

The point is that I can't cheat and stop the plane, reconfigure it so that it can have ejector seats, and then fly it. So I effectively save 500 lives and find out the nice little secret as well!

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 08:04am

Crown wrote:The point is that I can't cheat and stop the plane, reconfigure it so that it can have ejector seats, and then fly it. So I effectively save 500 lives and find out the nice little secret as well!

how come it's safe if u fly it??? if the plane crahses coz of a technical prob, it wills till crash!

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 08:07am

In retrospect, I would lie to save those I could...save as many as possible before it inevitably goes down. Or hope for the Rapture.

Either way. Anyways, the fewer people that die, the better. But I would have to resort to inaction, fo rthe greater good. I'd probably hate myself afterward, knowing that all those people died and I could do nothing, but it would be for the greater good.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-17 08:27am

Lex wrote:how come it's safe if u fly it??? if the plane crahses coz of a technical prob, it wills till crash!

Okay what I assume I can't do;

Stop the plane from flying off, and evacuate all on board.

Then have the plane reconfigured with ejector seats for the pilots.

Then fly the plane (with just the pilots in their ejector seats, no one else).

Plane still crashes, but no one dies 'cause no passengers and pilots have ejected in time.

The mysterous break through is discovered.

Okay?

Acclamator · Post by **Acclamator** » 2002-11-17 08:27am

I would act, because:

There is no way some guy saying "I have seeeeen the fuuutuuuuure! This plane is going to crash!" will make them abort the flight. They will just think I'm crazy and the flight will go ahead. I cannot intervene to change the future - because I do not have the nescesary credibility or authority to prevent that flight from taking off.

All I can do is say I have forseen a crash. Maybe some passengers will believe me and pull out and I will have saved thier lives, or maybe they will all think me mad and take the flight to their deaths. But the actual flight and crash are inevitable given my position.

So if I do nothing, the plane will crash killing everyone.

If I do act however, the plane will still fly and crash, but maybe someone who would have been on it will decide not to fly and hence survive.

Therefore, I would give warning of the crash.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 08:28am

Crown wrote:
Lex wrote:how come it's safe if u fly it??? if the plane crahses coz of a technical prob, it wills till crash!
Okay what I assume I can't do;

Stop the plane from flying off, and evacuate all on board.

Then have the plane reconfigured with ejector seats for the pilots.

Then fly the plane (with just the pilots in their ejector seats, no one else).

Plane still crashes, but no one dies 'cause no passengers and pilots have ejected in time.

The mysterous break through is discovered.

Okay?

How does no one die if no one is ejected?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-17 08:29am

verilon are you dense or are you taking the piss?

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-11-17 08:30am

Let'em die it's hard to do...........but no matter what always do your job half assed that the American way

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-17 08:34am

Crown wrote:verilon are you dense or are you taking the piss?

No....you said NO passengers have escaped....and no pilots, either.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-17 08:35am

Crown wrote:
Lex wrote:how come it's safe if u fly it??? if the plane crahses coz of a technical prob, it wills till crash!
Okay what I assume I can't do;

Stop the plane from flying off, and evacuate all on board.

Then have the plane reconfigured with ejector seats for the pilots.

Then fly the plane (with just the pilots in their ejector seats, no one else).

Plane still crashes, but no one dies 'cause no passengers and pilots have ejected in time.

The mysterous break through is discovered.

Okay?

u make so sense to me...u wrote no one dies cause NO passangers and pilots escape