Flash Learning

[Lord Pounder]

Lately i've been watching and reading a lot sci-fi where flash learning is used. Most notably in the Matrix where you gain knowledge from a disk.

My question to you brainier types is this. Is this really possible in the near future. Can you copy and paste knowledge from brain to brain or is it sci-fi wank?

[Terr Fangbite]

Probably Sci-Fi wank. Nothing from my education learning (learning to become an elementary education teacher) has said anything remotely akin to the ability of the brain to flash learn. Rather its a process of fortify and refortify. However, if something like this is possible I guess my future is no longer teacher but, "Guy Who Pushes Button on Brain Learning Machine"

[Il Saggiatore]

It might be possible to download notions and data (a simpler version of the *whisper* Battlefield Earth *whisper* flash learning), but knowledge is more than memorizing.

As Terr Fangbite says, it is a process of fortify and refortify, meaning that one has to understand the notions and relate them to the rest of the notions in memory.

"I know kung-fu!" flash learning is, however, sci-fi wank, because learning a skill needs actual training (I don't think that you can train your body j=only in your memory).

[Keevan_Colton]

The matrix kind is also a slightly bad example, as it's basically "I know how to do kung-fu...in Tekken 3!"

As for flash learning, the idea we might be able to send sensory stimuli straight into the brain soon with new technology means that there is a possibility for learning information without the use of your actual senses, not quite the flash learning idea, but certainly something...

[Lagmonster]

Chemically and physically, you could add information to the brain if you knew how to do it.

Problem is, you wouldn't understand it. This is obviously massive speculation, mind, but as far as I can imagine you would have no memory of how the info got there, thus no mental 'pathways' to it, and no way to decipher it.

Rough analogy: Think of when you wake up from a dream; you KNOW you've been dreaming, and that the dream might have felt like hours of events. You presume the memory of the events in your dream must be there in your brain somewhere, but damned if you can recall anything.

[wolveraptor]

Real-time experience will always be superior to flash-learning, if it is possible. You can memorize a book of kung-fu, and not know how to coordinate your self effectively to use the moves. The matrix might be an exception since it's all in your mind anyways. In real life though, the emotions and feelings of an experience just can't be downloaded into any sort of computer we can envision.

[dragon]

You might be able load info in directly but it might be like a hard drive thats just info stored.

[Mobiboros]

Matrix-like flash learning isn't really possible. Learning and memory are tagged to mental cues. The flash learning, while being able to store things (think Johhny Mnemonic), would lack the ability to pull it from memory because you'd have no frame of reference for the information.

Thank about how contextual all your memories are. That's why educators advise that people should take tests in a state similar to when they study the material. You need to be able to reference memory cues to pull the knowledge you want from long-term memory. Things like "1812 -> 1812 there was a war, etc... -> in this war X happened."

As far as Martial Arts, it's the same. You repeat the same moves hundreds of times to build a mental cue that will case a reflexive physical response. Your mind forms the association "Something moves at my face -> sweep arm to move it away".

Now something more like the Dark City concept would be somewhat plausable. Basically condense actual learning and thoughts. You don't circumvent the process, you actually feed a accelerated learning experience right into short term memory. It's wouldn't be as accurate as the speed up would cause some information loss in the process but it could likely give people a solid foundation in whatever learning was put in.

[Il Saggiatore]

Now something more like the Dark City concept would be somewhat plausable. Basically condense actual learning and thoughts. You don't circumvent the process, you actually feed a accelerated learning experience right into short term memory.

Do you mean, inserting in the brain not only the notions, but also the memory of learning those notions?
(Which gives a context to those notions and allows them to be connected to the rest of the knowledge.)

[Mobiboros]

Do you mean, inserting in the brain not only the notions, but also the memory of learning those notions?
(Which gives a context to those notions and allows them to be connected to the rest of the knowledge.)

Sort of. Think of this sort of hypothetical setup.
Person is put in a sensory dep chamber with only a special set of goggles. These goggles can use light waves to stimulate the various sensory centers of the brain fooling the brain into thinking it's getting audio, visual, olfactory and tactile sensations. These goggles are running a teaching program of say, math. It gives the person the impression of sitting in a classroom learning math. BUT because it's basically a directed brain input the persons mind never wanders from the subject and lacking any sense of time the program can be sped up above normal teaching rates. This would allow a person to actually be learning, but simply at an accelerated rate and with complete concentration on th subject. This way you have all the mental associations because you 'remember' being in class and learning it.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Would it be useful to use your brain like a hard drive or some type of repository of information? Or would it just be better to use normal computers for storage (if possible anyway)

[Mobiboros]

Would it be useful to use your brain like a hard drive or some type of repository of information? Or would it just be better to use normal computers for storage (if possible anyway)

The problem with using the brain as a hard drive is, quite honestly, any biological system is inherently flawed. They all share the same flaw, rapid degradation. Humans lose brain-cells rather rapidly. They also change brain paths quite often. Any Data stored runs the high probability of being corrupted simply through biological processes that go on every day.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Lately i've been watching and reading a lot sci-fi where flash learning is used. Most notably in the Matrix where you gain knowledge from a disk.

My question to you brainier types is this. Is this really possible in the near future. Can you copy and paste knowledge from brain to brain or is it sci-fi wank?

It's pure wankery. You learn things through memorization and experience. Except the signposts you use to cue yourself into your memories are different than those Billy Bob would use. Worse, memories and knowledge are represented by networks of interconnected neurons, which are also pulling double, triple, and quadruple duty for other memories and mental processing tasks. There aren't neurons dedicated to say, remembering your first semester of college calculus.

So, if you tried to flash-imprint memories on someone, you'll very likely end up destroying significant parts of their conscious as a side-effect.

The best way to do it, perhaps, would be to build some sort of cybernetic implant which can touch, and be touched, by many sections of the brain. You could download information to the implant, and then your organic brain could access the information by touching the implant in the right way.

However, this method requires an implant with a high degree of miniaturization, and the implant itself will have to have a fair degree of intelligence, to appropriately interpret your neural signals, and supply the appropriate responses. You would also have to be trained to use the implant, which would likely be an intensive process all by itself.

[darthnidankendo]

Man!, i thought this was about learing while some chick flashes and the questions and answers are on her tits.

[Trytostaydead]

Memory is a funny thing. As Mobiboros said, there is a strong correlation of memory with certain cues.. whether they be abject or even emotional. It's more than just storing data like a harddrive. What people theorize is your brain, whenever it learns something new, is essentially morphing a portion or more right down to the MOLECULAR layer of your neurons and the even the "soup" they rest in.

Needless to say, it is impossible to say whether or not it is just sci-fi wanking, we honestly do not know much about memory on the intrinsic level except ideas we can paint with a large brush.

[Nick Lancaster]

The question is, was the 'flash-learning' in Matrix really learning? We never really see Neo manifest the kick-ass martial arts skills that he 'acquired' in his programming session. By the time we reach Matrix Revolutions, even the fight scene with Bane is fairly pedestrian, devoid of any particular style or finesse.

Would Trinity really know how to fly a helicopter?

Even within the Matrix, physical skills are immediately absorbed without the hassle of one's muscles having to acclimate. Knowing HOW to hit a home run is different from actually doing it. It's why athletes train, why martial artists spar.

Additionally, that you and I may have the same knowledge of a given subject (dialogue from Star Wars, for example) - does not mean we have stored it in the exact same place or the exact same way. As an example, my wife occasionally likes to play, 'Name the Movie' - she'll find something showing on cable, I'll turn away from the screen, and she'll switch to that channel. I've identified films from dialogue, actors, music, even sound effects. I really don't know how or why, but it seems all of that bounces around in my head at different levels.

Would memorizing a scene from Star Wars register in a different part of the brain if you do it by watching the movie vs. reading the script? What about learning the Vulcan salute from watching Mark Lenard or Leonard Nimoy vs. Dame Judith Anderson?

Not to mention which, I like to read. Why take a short cut? It's like taking those magic diet pills advertised on television. It's a quick fix.

[Il Saggiatore]

Do you mean, inserting in the brain not only the notions, but also the memory of learning those notions?
(Which gives a context to those notions and allows them to be connected to the rest of the knowledge.)

Sort of. Think of this sort of hypothetical setup.
Person is put in a sensory dep chamber with only a special set of goggles. These goggles can use light waves to stimulate the various sensory centers of the brain fooling the brain into thinking it's getting audio, visual, olfactory and tactile sensations. These goggles are running a teaching program of say, math. It gives the person the impression of sitting in a classroom learning math. BUT because it's basically a directed brain input the persons mind never wanders from the subject and lacking any sense of time the program can be sped up above normal teaching rates. This would allow a person to actually be learning, but simply at an accelerated rate and with complete concentration on th subject. This way you have all the mental associations because you 'remember' being in class and learning it.

I understand.
But in many cases learning involves doing homework (or training).
You would need to "fool" the brain into remembering that he actually tried to solve problems on his own.