Maintenance: Imp. vs. Reb/NR

[Master of Ossus]

The thread about ideal starfighter squadrons got me thinking about maintenance.

There's obviously a huge bias because we have so much more information on Alliance and NR starfighters than we do about Imperial ones, but it seems from what we do have that Imperial fighters are quite a bit easier to maintain. There are any number of scenes in the X-wing series which involve mechanics going over the X-wings and other starfighters, as there are in the NJO series and some other books. Some of this seems to be to "milk" performance out of their craft (the X-wings in Rogue Squadron were pretty riced out). While the nature of the Rebellion would favor low-maintenance ships and fighters, with components that could be easily replaced, the ICS for the original series suggests that some Alliance craft (like the Y-wing) were maintenance hogs. In the Y-wing's case, the problem got so bad that many technicians never replaced the craft's hull, since removing plates of it got to be such a hassle and was such an awkward process.

Issues of maintenance seem from the literature to be less of a problem for Imperial-style fighters. Jag Fel and his wingman, for example, took their two fighters on dozens of hyperjumps through unknown territory, and even though they maintained their craft by themselves from occasionally sub-par spaceports. In spite of this, Jag's combat performance never seems to be affected by maintenance issues. Jaina Solo and her friends also managed to repair a completely destroyed TIE fighter they found in the jungles of Yavin--while it was a labor-intensive process, the ship itself would have to have been pretty simple for them to repair the thing without any heavy equipment.

So the question is: which side's starfighters could be maintained with less difficulty and less cost? Is the apparent Imperial advantage in this category created only by the distorted perspective of the EU, and its focus on NR and Alliance characters and fighters?

[Shinova]

Well the Empire would favor cheap, easy-to-maintain fighters over ones that were maintenance-heavy, while the Alliance probably bought whatever good fightercraft that was available on the market rather than individually contract out everything they use.


Hard to put into words, but defense companies might be enticed to sometimes "overdesign or overbuild" their stuff without absolute strict guidance from their contractor, so their stuff might end up being unnecesarily maintenance-heavy. Which could be the Rebellion's case, while the Empire has the advantage of contracting and guiding the development of their fighter or whatever to fit their strict, simple and specific needs and purposes.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

...See Ch 5 of the RASB. Seems a bit biased, but take it as you will.

However, it must be noted that this applies equally to both sides in the conflict. Imperial starfighters usually operate from superbly-equipped bases, often aboard Star Destroyers, but their ships are generally inferior in design and construction to ours, and their mechanics of a low grade of competence indeed. Downtime for TIE craft between battles is roughly four times as long as it is for Alliance ships, and TIEs have a reputation for severe loss of effectiveness if flown into battle without being properly maintained

[Gunhead]

Empire wants a lot of fighters that are good enough and ease of maintanence is a big part of this.
To that Shimazakis quote:
Sure imperial mechanics sure don't do spit and wire miracles. This is because they don't have to. They don't repair broken parts, they replace them. So downtime for a fighter is greater in the Empire than it is in the alliance, big deal. The Empire has so many crafts at it's disposal it can keep a fighter grounded until it's completely checked. Who's to say the rebels don't get 4 times the number of inflight breakdowns because they need all of their craft operational at all times.

Goes like this: If a replacement machine is available, the broken one is replaced and sent for repairs.
Machines are evaluated for damage and the most lightly damaged is repaired first. Most badly damaged are repaired last, or recycled for parts.

-Gunhead

[Stark]

Gotta love the EU. The Empire isn't just bad; it's stupid.

From layout, the TIE has most of it's equipment in similar places (above and below the ball, the pylons, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull the powerplant/guns section out the bottom. The lack of complex systems in the low-end models would cut down on maintenance, too, so you'd expect to get more fighters in the sky per unit work than the much more complex rebel and Alliance fighters.

[Civil War Man]

Plus it could be said that the RASB is Rebel propoganda (note how the quote uses the term "our ships" when talking about Rebel fighters, quite obviously written from Alliance personnel POV). It would have a reason to portray the Empire as both bad and stupid (to echo Stark there) since the author is one of the "good guys."

[FTeik]

So the same source, that makes captains of the empire very competent pictures their mechanics as the bottom of the barrel. Not to mention their maintainance-easy fighters (no movable parts) need four times as much as their rebel-counterparts, which are short on spare-parts and their mechanics are worse despite receiving proper training compared to the alliance, which has to use, what it can get are.

Really, you have to love WEG.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Well, being an Imperial apologist, everything you guys were saying went through my mind at one time or another.

To be absolutely fair though, in Ch12 ISB, they briefly talk about the outlook of Imperial Naval officer candidates.

Basically, the top 5% become pilots (probably eventually advancing to Captaincies), and about 30% more become astrogators or gunners and the like - apparently the stuff in their Support Service Branch. So it might just be that the Empire uses (or is forced to use) lower caliber men for their maintenance work due to its perceived lack of prestige (so all the best people with a choice don't pick the specialty). The Rebels, of course, hold a mechanic who can glue fighters together with spit their highest respect - they have no choice.

[FTeik]

And yet we have even captains (Avon in HTTE), who envy pilots for their fame and prestige. Not to mention the mechanics in Stackpoles X-Wing-novels or Kell Tainer, who consider their mechanics-job "lower" work.

And have you ever met a technican or craftsman, who isn't proud of his work, no matter, what outsiders think? The man-power-pool the empire has access to should be large enough, that it can pick the best, even for maintainance-jobs.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

And yet we have even captains (Avon in HTTE), who envy pilots for their fame and prestige.

In Star Wars mythology, pilots are all important. As Piggy mentioned in Wraith Squadron, nobody ever remembers the gunner (I suppose he means to say the Chief Gunnery officer seeing Home One would have countless gunners) or Captain of the Home One.

Not to mention the mechanics in Stackpoles X-Wing-novels or Kell Tainer, who consider their mechanics-job "lower" work.

SO, you are agreeing with me here.

And have you ever met a technican or craftsman, who isn't proud of his work, no matter, what outsiders think? The man-power-pool the empire has access to should be large enough, that it can pick the best, even for maintainance-jobs.

I'm not sure. I didn't have the fortune to meet with many techs.

It seems that according to the ISB, most officer candidates of the Imperial Navy are fighting to become pilots, specifically starfighter pilots. (Honestly, I can't understand this attitude - everyone of them wants to be in a cold tiny TIE rather than a broad deck of a Star Destroyer commanding those TIEs?)

Anyway, if you wanted to be a pilot, and they consigned you to being a tech, you probably won't be too enthusiastic about it.

[FTeik]

And yet we have even captains (Avon in HTTE), who envy pilots for their fame and prestige.

In Star Wars mythology, pilots are all important. As Piggy mentioned in Wraith Squadron, nobody ever remembers the gunner (I suppose he means to say the Chief Gunnery officer seeing Home One would have countless gunners) or Captain of the Home One.

Not to mention the mechanics in Stackpoles X-Wing-novels or Kell Tainer, who consider their mechanics-job "lower" work.

SO, you are agreeing with me here.

Excuse me? - you were the one claiming NR-technicians are better, than their imperial counterparts because of their prestige and the respect shown to them. Now if they have nothing of that, why should they be better?

And have you ever met a technican or craftsman, who isn't proud of his work, no matter, what outsiders think? The man-power-pool the empire has access to should be large enough, that it can pick the best, even for maintainance-jobs.

I'm not sure. I didn't have the fortune to meet with many techs.

It seems that according to the ISB, most officer candidates of the Imperial Navy are fighting to become pilots, specifically starfighter pilots. (Honestly, I can't understand this attitude - everyone of them wants to be in a cold tiny TIE rather than a broad deck of a Star Destroyer commanding those TIEs?)

Anyway, if you wanted to be a pilot, and they consigned you to being a tech, you probably won't be too enthusiastic about it.

Depends. How many people in the empires forces are volunteers and how many conscripts? If we go with the ISB most are recruits (at least until Endor). Who prevents the empire from actually hiring (outsourcing) qualified people for certain jobs?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Excuse me? - you were the one claiming NR-technicians are better, than their imperial counterparts because of their prestige and the respect shown to them. Now if they have nothing of that, why should they be better?

Oh, oops, you mean that. I suppose it might be relative prestige. I don't think that there is a place where support personnel would match the glamor of pilots and other frontline troops. But it is logical that the NR would place greater emphasis than the resource-rich Empire, so in relation they'd assign better troops to the job.

Depends. How many people in the empires forces are volunteers and how many conscripts? If we go with the ISB most are recruits (at least until Endor). Who prevents the empire from actually hiring (outsourcing) qualified people for certain jobs?

So every time a Star Destroyer sails, they take on 3000 technicians?