NitRant Time! Werewolf: The Forsaken

[SirNitram]

Which brings us to my question. What ever happened to my personal favorites, the Hunters? Do they have any effect on this oncoming end of the world?

Arcanum provide much needed assbeating against the shit that emerges through the weakened Gauntlet, and IIRC the other organized Hunter groups help against the Marauders.

[Rogue 9]

I've never been a big fan of White Wolf. Too many emo types playing it; the angst in the room when they decided to strike up a session during gaming club meetings was tangible.

[DarkSilver]

Well fuck me.....

That was one hell of a ending, much better than the Vamp end book.

I need to find a copy of it, maybe ebay will still have it about.

What was the title of the last book Nitrim?

[LadyTevar]

Well fuck me.....

That was one hell of a ending, much better than the Vamp end book.

I need to find a copy of it, maybe ebay will still have it about.

What was the title of the last book Nitrim?

I'm not Nitram, but the title was Ascension.

[Imperial Overlord]

I will continue to spend zero dollars on the World of Darkness relaunch. And for the record, despite about a dozen campaigns, I've never played with an emo type.

[DarkSilver]

Well fuck me.....

That was one hell of a ending, much better than the Vamp end book.

I need to find a copy of it, maybe ebay will still have it about.

What was the title of the last book Nitrim?

I'm not Nitram, but the title was Ascension.

many thanks m'lady

I would never presume one of your fair features and fairer form would be ever mistaken for the likes of SirNitram.....not that he isn't nice lookin...erm...well.....you know what I mean.....I'm gonna go somewhere else now....

-looks around quickly to make sure he isn't in immenient danger of being paralyzed from the hair down, and slinks away-

[Petrosjko]

I will continue to spend zero dollars on the World of Darkness relaunch. And for the record, despite about a dozen campaigns, I've never played with an emo type.

All the TT games I was in that were WoD were either with my own little groups of carefully selected players, or else with MontyHaulers who had no idea of how to rise above their D&D roots.

Now online, on the other hand, the angstbois and -girls were overwhelmingly easy to find.

[Rogue 9]

I will continue to spend zero dollars on the World of Darkness relaunch. And for the record, despite about a dozen campaigns, I've never played with an emo type.

All the TT games I was in that were WoD were either with my own little groups of carefully selected players, or else with MontyHaulers who had no idea of how to rise above their D&D roots.

Now online, on the other hand, the angstbois and -girls were overwhelmingly easy to find.

"Rise above?" Done right, there's not much rising to be done. D&D gets that reputation because that's what almost everybody starts out on, but it's not limited to that.

[Petrosjko]

"Rise above?" Done right, there's not much rising to be done. D&D gets that reputation because that's what almost everybody starts out on, but it's not limited to that.

Okay, more specifically, they never rose above their Monty Haul roots, then.

You want a sample?

Werewolf/mage that dances with Diana and destroys a chunk of the umbra, killing 200,000 Fianna who happen to be crossing through to attack something.

That was a PC.

*shudders*

[Rogue 9]

"Rise above?" Done right, there's not much rising to be done. D&D gets that reputation because that's what almost everybody starts out on, but it's not limited to that.

Okay, more specifically, they never rose above their Monty Haul roots, then.

You want a sample?

Werewolf/mage that dances with Diana and destroys a chunk of the umbra, killing 200,000 Fianna who happen to be crossing through to attack something.

That was a PC.

*shudders*

That's not monty haul either; that's plain old powergaming. Monty haul refers to an easy dungeon that hands out a lot of treasure for little risk.

[Petrosjko]

"Rise above?" Done right, there's not much rising to be done. D&D gets that reputation because that's what almost everybody starts out on, but it's not limited to that.

Okay, more specifically, they never rose above their Monty Haul roots, then.

You want a sample?

Werewolf/mage that dances with Diana and destroys a chunk of the umbra, killing 200,000 Fianna who happen to be crossing through to attack something.

That was a PC.

*shudders*

That's not monty haul either; that's plain old powergaming. Monty haul refers to an easy dungeon that hands out a lot of treasure for little risk.

Oh oh, there were ridiculous levels of reward for minimal effort as well. And that was how they played every game.

[Dooey Jo]

So I guess this game deserves its abbreviation, then?

WtF...

Hah... hah?


On a more serious note though, is this a computer version, or a new version of the "real" RPG?

[DarkSilver]

all WoD 2.0 is White Wolf's relaunching of the World of Darkness. WW's attempt to appeal to the d20 crowd.

So, unfortunatly, Werewolf the Forsaken is indeed, a new bastardized version of the real thing.

[Petrosjko]

all WoD 2.0 is White Wolf's relaunching of the World of Darkness. WW's attempt to appeal to the d20 crowd.

So, unfortunatly, Werewolf the Forsaken is indeed, a new bastardized version of the real thing.

I had a friend who used to hang around with their intern crowd at her college, and according to her they were in a serious spot of stagnation, which is entirely understandable.

So they took a bold gamble, and apparently it's failing. Too bad, really, because they did revolutionize TT RPGs.

[Tatterdemalion]

Which brings us to my question. What ever happened to my personal favorites, the Hunters? Do they have any effect on this oncoming end of the world?

Not much. I can tell you what happened to the signature characters if you like, but as for Hunters as a whole, there's no official ending (most of the scenarios deal with your PCs as individuals dealing with the apocalypse rather than Hunters society at large). Although in one of the Demon endings I believe the Hunters are recruited into Lucifers army against the rest of the fallen/earthbound.

I had a friend who used to hang around with their intern crowd at her college, and according to her they were in a serious spot of stagnation, which is entirely understandable.

So they took a bold gamble, and apparently it's failing. Too bad, really, because they did revolutionize TT RPGs.

I don't know. V:tR doesn't seem to bad. I actually prefer the Covenants to the old sects from Masquerade, and some of the general changes (such as the general down-powering of disciplines, most notably celerity) help to reduce some of the more annoying parts of the old vampire. Can't really comment on the new Werewolf though, although that does seem substantially less popular.

[SirNitram]

WoD 2.0 is showing every sign of being built not to appeal to the d20 crowd, but to the Vampire players. Let's review the evidence.

1) 'Play to the base' and 'Don't do anything edgy' are words of 'wisdom' in this bastard age.

2) The rules changed shown to be most impacting are.. Direct ripoffs from Masquerade.

3) The secondary things are massive racheting down of Weres to Vampire levels.. As the Vampires bitched endlessly when they tried to shove Weres into their LARPs and found they got ripped in two.

4) The Metaplot and setting descriptions were very secondary in Vampire; it was supposed to be about local power struggles. Werewolf, Mage, and others were larger in scope, so needed the plot and deeper setting info. What's missing here? Right...

Which, in my mind, shows this is all just blatantly playing to the Vampire Angster crowd. I pity Mage, it's gonna be made Tremere With Pulses...

[Petrosjko]

3) The secondary things are massive racheting down of Weres to Vampire levels.. As the Vampires bitched endlessly when they tried to shove Weres into their LARPs and found they got ripped in two.

Actually, that bitching started from the very day WtA was released, long before the LARPs came along. The fact that the average werewolf snacks on the average vampire has long been a bone of contention, which is why they really worked to separate the lines with the release of the Revised editions.

4) The Metaplot and setting descriptions were very secondary in Vampire; it was supposed to be about local power struggles. Werewolf, Mage, and others were larger in scope, so needed the plot and deeper setting info. What's missing here? Right...

Metaplot was heavily present in Vampire, and setting descriptions only fell off because the citybooks were lousy sellers. The overall scope of Werewolf and Mage was larger, yeah, but especially with the arrival of Revised Achilli started inserting the metaplot into the supplements regularly- the introduction of the thin bloods, the destruction of the Ravnos and the Tremere antitribu, death of the Sabbat Regent, you name it. It just was more minimalized by 'Yeah, so the Regent has been replaced by an imposter, what does that have to do with the characters in my game?'

So much of the metaplot in Vampire was so clearly above the levels of the PCs that they generally only felt the ripples. This contrasted with stuff like the Perfect Metis storyline for WtA, that served to directly bring the PCs in. But then, WtA was in part about being mythological heroes taking grand actions on a vast scale, whereas VtM was about being fucked no matter how prominent and powerful one is.

Which, in my mind, shows this is all just blatantly playing to the Vampire Angster crowd. I pity Mage, it's gonna be made Tremere With Pulses...

Damn you for getting to use the wanker emoticon in a discussion before I did.

Unfortunately, it does look like you're right that they're watering down the other lines besides Vampire and stealing away their uniqueness.

[weemadando]

Personally I think WW should try an original fucking idea.

They've done nothing but BARELY rehash their old WoD system (change the names and thats about it).

Bored now.

[The Yosemite Bear]

oi that pisses me off

don't worrry the sleepy SDN p0r[\] associated parts of my brain read this originally as Werewolf: The Foreskin.....

hmm, something to do to the new WW management.....

[dworkin]

Actually, that bitching started from the very day WtA was released, long before the LARPs came along. The fact that the average werewolf snacks on the average vampire has long been a bone of contention, which is why they really worked to separate the lines with the release of the Revised editions.

Yup, I remembered the whining well. That's what the Mindfuck powers a vamp had were for.

Beginning Were: Grrrr!!
Beginning Vamp: Sit! Stay!

Were obiediently sits and stays!

Vamp: Good doggie.

OK it didn't always work this way. So what? The option was there. Whiny players just couldn't think of it.

Once you started thinking about it Vamps and Weres were on an equal footing. The fact that weres tore vamps new ones at knife range was only ever part of the equation. And, as stated throughout most of the books 'Life ain't fair', deal with it.

[Tzeentch]

Personally I think WW should try an original fucking idea.

They've done nothing but BARELY rehash their old WoD system (change the names and thats about it).

Bored now.

That's not really what WW is trying to do with the NWOD. The goal was to strip away several editions worth of backstory, incoherent themes, and flat-out idiocy (Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, anyone?). In other words, to create a new edition free of baggage, benefiting from what they'd learned.

The NWOD isn't intended to be a new idea, but instead an old one done cleanly and well. The response I've seen in other forums, particualry rpg.net, (I'm not a big WW gamer, so I don't have a strong personal view) has been mostly positive; it seems like a lot of the complaints voiced in this thread are more along the lines of "they changed this thing I liked" or "this new system doesn't let me run werewolf in the same way I did before," rather than "this part of wtf is stupid, independant of wta." F'rinstance, the general focus has apparently shifted from ecoterrorism to ghost-hunting and internecine strife. I can understand how that might annoy someone who particularly liked the gaia/weaver/wyrm angle, but to me it sounds like a positive change, and certainly not an inherently bad idea.

[Tatterdemalion]

Personally I think WW should try an original fucking idea.

They've done nothing but BARELY rehash their old WoD system (change the names and thats about it).

Bored now.

Um, Exalted?

[Petrosjko]

Personally I think WW should try an original fucking idea.

They've done nothing but BARELY rehash their old WoD system (change the names and thats about it).

Bored now.

Um, Exalted?

Heh.

Trinity/Aberrant/Adventure?

[Stark]

Heh. It's a sad day when people have to relaunch an engine rather than a setting: who uses the vanilla rules ANYWAY.

I'm not surprised they powered down the weres, though - in my brief flirtation with WoD I used both a Were and a human to pwnz0r the 'emo fag' crowd, who were, of course, vampires. Moody ones too, who didn't take even the most simple precautions.

'You cannot smite the darkness, foolish human' becomes mist

'This is napalm.' vamp dies

Celerity was utterly ridiculous, though. If they had it, and you didn't, you died. How'd THAT get past playtesting?

[Petrosjko]

Heh. It's a sad day when people have to relaunch an engine rather than a setting: who uses the vanilla rules ANYWAY.

I'm not surprised they powered down the weres, though - in my brief flirtation with WoD I used both a Were and a human to pwnz0r the 'emo fag' crowd, who were, of course, vampires. Moody ones too, who didn't take even the most simple precautions.

'You cannot smite the darkness, foolish human' becomes mist

'This is napalm.' vamp dies

Celerity was utterly ridiculous, though. If they had it, and you didn't, you died. How'd THAT get past playtesting?

Celerity got nerfed in Revised, for that very reason.