Liquid Pope?

[Saurencaerthai]

I just realized something: unless the Vatican knows something about mortuary science, we'll probably have liquid Pope pretty soon. How so? I was reading on CNN that his cypress coffin was placed in a hermetically sealed zinc one.

The idea behind airtight coffins is that it will cause the body to decay slower. However, from what I've read, it actually activates some anarobic bacteria, causing the remains to liquify. As well, it can cause a gas to develop, which in some cases, causes enough pressure to blow the coffin apart. If they're smart, they'll leave it cracked a little. If not, I wonder what the Swiss guard's first impression will be?

[Kurgan]

Have you ever been to a funeral in your life? A wake?

We have this thing called "embalming" which prevents a body from decaying before your eyes while lying in state.

The purpose of these procedures isn't to make sure a person's physical body remains intact forever (the ancient Egyptians tried pretty hard though), rather it's to make sure people can pay their respects for awhile until they put the body in the ground, and they aren't having to wear masks because of the smell or something like that which ruins the moment.

So anyway, it's no different for the late Pope than for any other person except in some super poor country where they don't have embalming science or don't believe in it. And I doubt they'd go to the extremes as with say Lenin's body (look how long they kept him looking fresh) or Ferdinand Marcos.

[Hobot]

Have you ever been to a funeral in your life? A wake?

We have this thing called "embalming" which prevents a body from decaying before your eyes while lying in state.

The purpose of these procedures isn't to make sure a person's physical body remains intact forever (the ancient Egyptians tried pretty hard though), rather it's to make sure people can pay their respects for awhile until they put the body in the ground, and they aren't having to wear masks because of the smell or something like that which ruins the moment.

So anyway, it's no different for the late Pope than for any other person except in some super poor country where they don't have embalming science or don't believe in it. And I doubt they'd go to the extremes as with say Lenin's body (look how long they kept him looking fresh) or Ferdinand Marcos.

I'm pretty sure they haven't enbalmed him.

See link.

[Mopeyennuui]

Evita I think had her water (on cellular lavers) removed and replaced with wax. Same for Lenin and Stalin IIRC.

Just a idea

[Kurgan]

I'm pretty sure they haven't enbalmed him.

See link.

Nonesense. I read the article they're most likely referring to prior, which stated that the USUAL company that has embalmed popes in the past was not used this time. All that means is they found somebody else to do it.

A lot of misinformation is bound to spring up since a Pope hasn't died for 26 years, and most of these news people aren't Catholics (heck, most Catholics don't know a whole lot about some of these things either). The whole "banging him on the head with a hammer to make sure he's dead" thing might be an urban legend (see Snopes.com article "Hammer Time" this week) and yet it was widely reported.

When Pius XII was embalmed, they apparently screwed up (there's been conspiracy theories that conmen posed as coroners to get money or something, but I don't know all the details) and his body actually decayed super fast. His nose fell off, he got green and smelly, it was pretty gross. His funeral was almost ruined. So there was some mistrust built there.

Obviously they did something to preserve his body or else it'd be disgusting and would be obvious to everyone there and people watching on TV.

His body was lying in state for a week, and he's buried now, so I don't think they had any problems.

[Kurgan]

Addendum: Looks like the AP article they link to on Slate has been updated today (more recently than the Slate article is dated). They claim the Vatican (who at the Vatican? doesn't say) says the Pope's body was "only prepared" (no details) but that could just be a misunderstanding.

They had to have done something, as I said, or it'd be pretty gross for everyone involved. Since they weren't going to do an autopsy in front of millions of people just to satisfy the curiosity of some reporters we'll just have to take their word for it. Whatever they did to his body to keep it presentable for his funeral, it worked.

[Saurencaerthai]

We have this thing called "embalming" which prevents a body from decaying before your eyes while lying in state.

The purpose of these procedures isn't to make sure a person's physical body remains intact forever (the ancient Egyptians tried pretty hard though), rather it's to make sure people can pay their respects for awhile until they put the body in the ground, and they aren't having to wear masks because of the smell or something like that which ruins the moment.

So anyway, it's no different for the late Pope than for any other person except in some super poor country where they don't have embalming science or don't believe in it. And I doubt they'd go to the extremes as with say Lenin's body (look how long they kept him looking fresh) or Ferdinand Marcos.

I'm aware that embalming is only a temporary measure. However, my focus is more so on the air-tight casket, and the possibility of a casket-blow.

[CaptainChewbacca]

They don't embalm popes right off the bat, because part of a test for Sainthood is delayed decay of the body. Embalming would preclude that.

[Kurgan]

We have this thing called "embalming" which prevents a body from decaying before your eyes while lying in state.

The purpose of these procedures isn't to make sure a person's physical body remains intact forever (the ancient Egyptians tried pretty hard though), rather it's to make sure people can pay their respects for awhile until they put the body in the ground, and they aren't having to wear masks because of the smell or something like that which ruins the moment.

So anyway, it's no different for the late Pope than for any other person except in some super poor country where they don't have embalming science or don't believe in it. And I doubt they'd go to the extremes as with say Lenin's body (look how long they kept him looking fresh) or Ferdinand Marcos.

I'm aware that embalming is only a temporary measure. However, my focus is more so on the air-tight casket, and the possibility of a casket-blow.

If such a thing happened a few years from now in the catacombs underground, who cares? It's not like people are going to be hopping down there and peering into his casket to see how things are going. I'm sure there's no danger of any "Pope Bombs" blowing up the Basilica. *waits for the Weekly World News or The Sun to read this page and steal that headline for their rag*

[Kurgan]

They don't embalm popes right off the bat, because part of a test for Sainthood is delayed decay of the body. Embalming would preclude that.

I don't know about that. While certainly some saints have supposedly had their bodies last a lot longer than usual and this is seen as a "sign" I don't think this is required for consideration for sainthood. If it were, then what would happen to all the martyrs who had their bodies mutilated or destroyed?

Such an occurance of the corpse's longevity might be considered a "miracle" (one of the two needed for canonization consideration), but miracles can happen in other ways. Anyway, that's the first I'd heard of such a "requirement" (delayed bodily decay) so I'd like to see some documentation if you don't mind. Thanks...

[Broomstick]

Have you ever been to a funeral in your life? A wake?

We have this thing called "embalming" which prevents a body from decaying before your eyes while lying in state.

Embalming is not a universal custom.

Orthodox Jews and the Hmong are just two groups I can think of off the top of my head that forbid embalming, as an example.

It's actually not mandatory, at least not in the US, although there are rules to follow if you don't embalm.

Nor do you have to do a full-blown modern embalming to keep a body "presentable" for a week. Draping the body with heavy cloth will help keep odors and fluids contained. And for all we know that bier he was lying on could have had dry ice underneath it to keep him cool (Bodies on ice being a long tradition, where ice has been available) or some other means to chill down the body. It's not like it's the middle of summer in Rome.

That said - a modern, full embalming will pretty much prevent serious deterioration for a long, long time and will avoid "coffin blow" even if some anerobes start in on the remains.

Not that the Pope really has to worry - at the resurrection when Jesus calls the dead back to life they will rise up with perfect bodies to meet their judgement, or so the story goes. If you believe in that stuff. Which, of course, most of us on this board don't.

[CaptainChewbacca]

They don't embalm popes right off the bat, because part of a test for Sainthood is delayed decay of the body. Embalming would preclude that.

I don't know about that. While certainly some saints have supposedly had their bodies last a lot longer than usual and this is seen as a "sign" I don't think this is required for consideration for sainthood. If it were, then what would happen to all the martyrs who had their bodies mutilated or destroyed?

Such an occurance of the corpse's longevity might be considered a "miracle" (one of the two needed for canonization consideration), but miracles can happen in other ways. Anyway, that's the first I'd heard of such a "requirement" (delayed bodily decay) so I'd like to see some documentation if you don't mind. Thanks...

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

[Kurgan]

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

Okay, that's more what I thought (not that it was somehow "required"). I just figured I'd ask where you got it from since you sounded like you might know.

***

As far as the groups that don't embalm, don't they normally bury their dead right away? (makes sense why they would insist on that)

The reason I started replying is the thread starter seemed to be thinking that any second now the Pope's body was going to liquify and gross everyone out and the people at the funeral were going to freak out, we'd or something (Weekly World News Headline: Pope Bomb levels St. Peter's!?). I figured there was a simple enough explanation that he was just embalmed by a different company than the one normally associated with deceased popes and that lead to the confusion for Slate (which was before I read the AP article which was revised). Wild speculation about these details is to be expected I guess, but there you go.

[jcow79]

They don't embalm popes right off the bat, because part of a test for Sainthood is delayed decay of the body. Embalming would preclude that.

So a diet high in preservatives could be the key to sainthood?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

They don't embalm popes right off the bat, because part of a test for Sainthood is delayed decay of the body. Embalming would preclude that.

So a diet high in preservatives could be the key to sainthood?

By that, Napoleon should be a saint, given the diet of arsenic he was fed while he spent his last few years in exile.

But, according to news stories, a member of the family who usually prepares the Popes, thinks that, while JP ver. 2.0.0 wasn't given the full treatment, he had to have been, at least, mildly embalmed (just flushed with formaldehyde). Just enough to get his corpse through a week of public viewing. And mourners report that the dead Pope looked pretty "haggard." And from the footage, you can see the corpse's color started out well at the beginning of the week, but got worse later on, suggesting a quick job.

And chances are, JP ver. 2.0.0 is already on the fast-track to sainthood, given the heaps of praise piled on him, and the way he changed the rules to make it easier for saints to be created. Already, in Italy, there seem to be people claiming miraculous happenings that they attribute to him.

[Zornhau]

So a diet high in preservatives could be the key to sainthood?

Actually yes! As I recall, there was an article in the Fortean Times suggesting that many of these saints through well-preserved stiff had a lot of lead in their diet.

[Zed Snardbody]

I wonder how many people will start making zombie jokes and going "Braiiiinssss" during the rapture.....I for one know I will if such a thing ever comes to pass.

-Random thought #73

[Jason von Evil]

Evita I think had her water (on cellular lavers) removed and replaced with wax. Same for Lenin and Stalin IIRC.

Just a idea

That would explain why Lenin looks so waxy.

I'd imagine that the Swiss Guard's reaction would be something like "No way in Hell, are we cleaning that up."

[Patrick Degan]

Evita I think had her water (on cellular lavers) removed and replaced with wax. Same for Lenin and Stalin IIRC.

Just a idea

That would explain why Lenin looks so waxy.

I'd imagine that the Swiss Guard's reaction would be something like "No way in Hell, are we cleaning that up."

That's one of the things they've got altar boys and novitiate brothers for.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

So a diet high in preservatives could be the key to sainthood?

Actually yes! As I recall, there was an article in the Fortean Times suggesting that many of these saints through well-preserved stiff had a lot of lead in their diet.

They weren't exceptionally well-preserved. Some had good enbalming done (later, conveniently forgotten about.) Others, due to the relatively dry condition of their burials, became natural mummies. Others were secretly, but quite artificially mummified, in an effort by their proponents to make it appear as though they were "miraculously" preserved. So really, it's a combination of natural processes, good handling of the corpses, or outright fraud that kept some of the saints as preserved as they allegedly are.

[Darth Wong]

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

So when Pamela Anderson dies and her plastic-enhanced body turns out to be non-biodegradable, she will be on a fast-track to sainthood?

[Jason von Evil]

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

So when Pamela Anderson dies and her plastic-enhanced body turns out to be non-biodegradable, she will be on a fast-track to sainthood?

Given how much wanking material she's contributed to the world, she should be a saint.

[wolveraptor]

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

So when Pamela Anderson dies and her plastic-enhanced body turns out to be non-biodegradable, she will be on a fast-track to sainthood?

Note to self: In the extremely unlikely occurrence that I become Pope, I must make the discoverer of a way to naturally grow tits from stem-cells a saint.

[Molyneux]

Check it out online. I don't have it now, but I saw it on something about beatifying PJ2. Its not a 'requirement' per-se, but its a shortcut to sainthood.

So when Pamela Anderson dies and her plastic-enhanced body turns out to be non-biodegradable, she will be on a fast-track to sainthood?

Given how much wanking material she's contributed to the world, she should be a saint.

Eugh...Pamela Anderson? She's so...eyeuch.
Then again, I don't like blonds, period...*shrug*

I'd be more interested in seeing about getting Stephen Hawking or Einstein beatified - for the humor value, if nothing else.