[Scrubula]Battle Droids vs Federation (in ground combat)

[BringerOfLight]

Lets just say a TF battleship appears near a major Federation planet where at least 25,000-35,000 Federation Combat Personel are stationed. Most of the planet is uninhabited save for a single large urban sprawl that is being defended by the previously mentioned Federation soldiers. Just to make this interesting, the Neimodian commanding the TF battleship is an idiot and refuses to use orbital bombardment to level the whole place but instead, orders the deployment of a mere 100,000 standard battledroids (without the support of tanks or or other vehicles) to various sites surrounding the central city-sprawl. The battledroids have the advantage of outnumbering the Federation soldiers by a ratio of at least 3-1 but the Federation has the advantage of fighting from an established urban position. Which army do you think will emerge victorious and why?

[Jadeite]

I'd have to say the battledroids will take this one, due to superior coordination.

[JediMaster415]

Battle droids. From what I've heard of SF combat personnel, the battle droids have a better idea of what they're doing.

[nesaminos]

The battledroids also have armour support, which the feds lack.

[althornin]

The battledroids also have armour support, which the feds lack.

from OP:

(without the support of tanks or or other vehicles)

I give it to the feds.
hell, you can kick apart a regular battledroid.

[The Cleric]

Droids, with minimal losses. The weapons disparity is enourmous.

[nesaminos]

The battledroids also have armour support, which the feds lack.

from OP:

(without the support of tanks or or other vehicles)

I give it to the feds.
hell, you can kick apart a regular battledroid.

Oops, I misread that. I thought it said with the support of tanks or other vehicles. In that case I guess it depends on just how well defended is the city.

[Ra]

Battle droids. While frail, the droids have a numerical advantage and more potent firearms. In addition, droids have no emotions, and can march right into the teeth of the enemy with clockwork precision. While Federation soldiers might succumb to fear, this is something of no consequence to the droids, even if they are taking heavy losses.

[Lord Revan]

By standard you probaly mean Nemodian B1 battledroids. The droid might be a bit frail (thought I can't remember a fully active B1 been destroyed by human strenght blunt blow) and bummer then my boots they got better weapons, body armor (by their very nature) and numbers.

[The Silence and I]

I was going to call stalemate (redshirts vs the wars equivalent...) but I realized something: Redshirts actually are better shots than the Battle Droids. In an open battle I'd quickly give this to the droids, as 3-1 is quite the advantage there, but if the redshirts are fortified (and they are) then they have the advantage of cover. IIRC a defender is worth roughly 3 attackers of equal ability, and frankly, B1 droids suxor--even more than redshirts.

Watch the hanger scene in TPM; open exposed pilots rushing for their fighters escape mostly unharmed. Why? Partly because several droids were tied up with the Jedi. Partly because they simply couldn't hit an exposed person from 9 meters unless they got lucky (this is hardly isolated, B1 droids display appalling marksmanship consistently). Redshirts can usually hit exposed targets from that range, so I'd give them better marksmanship.

Phasers vs blasters is IMO pointless here; B1 droids have no armor to present, they are not even made of dense materials (very light automations they are). A phaser is easily capable of a setting high enough to damage a B1 droid--remember that while a blaster is capable of high power shots the settings used successfully against B1 droids are consistently low. Stray shots kick up a bit a dust or fling sparks from solid marble; not quite the multi MJ yields we expect the blasters are capable of. Phaser rifles are capable of 2 MW, I expect less than that can destroy a B1 droid based on the above.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Five reasons sum it up:
1. Phasers are effectively worthless against metal. Battle droids are metal. Phasers are therefore worth shit.
2. Blaster carbines (basically E-11s) have enough firepower to blow apart almost any building that the Feddies try to hide in, through sheer weight of firepower.
3. B1s (with B2/Droideka support) managed to kill Jedi. Redshirts... well, take a look at the "expert marksman" Worf's awful accuracy in Rascals.
4. The Battle Droids outnumber the Redshirts 3 to 1.
5. Battle Droids have no fear and are willing to march right into the meat grinder to accomplish the mission. Redshirts are pussies that can't even beat a charging mass of screaming melee enemies when they have just recieved a fresh supply of equipment.

[Gandalf]

5. Battle Droids have no fear and are willing to march right into the meat grinder to accomplish the mission. Redshirts are pussies that can't even beat a charging mass of screaming melee enemies when they have just recieved a fresh supply of equipment.

Battle droids have fear, or at least a sense of self preservation.

Look at them backing away form the Acklay in AoTC. Or the exclamation when the lightsabres appear in the opening of TPM.

[Master of Ossus]

The battle droids take this easily. None of the Federation small arms is likely to consistently kill a droid, and the droids can easily destroy UFP positions with weapons fire. The redshirts accuracy, going by Nemesis, is MUCH worse, even when they're defending. Redshirts, again going by Nemesis, have no sense of how to defend and hold ground. Even without their armor support, the droids would demolish the UFP's forces.

[Ra]

Even though battle droids have shown emotion from time to time, how afraid are they going to be of redshirts and their laughable combat skills? I doubt a redshirt would strike fear into anyone, man or machine.
However, a whole bunch of them might provide comic relief.

[Lancer]

Five counters to Prodigy's reasons
1. Phasers have variable settings. Usually set to stun or kill settings that don't even leave a mark on their target's body. Furthermore, the use of phasers in ship-to-ship combat show us that phasers do have settings that are effective against metals.

In addition, B1 droids are laughably weak, capable of being destroyed in fisticuffs with normal humans. A concussive phaser blast (as seen in ST: III) would be more than enough to take out a B1 from momentum/ke if the NDF reaction fails.

2: Blaster caribines used by B1's seem to be set onto minimum power comparable to the low-power settings used against them.

3. With B2, Droideka, and Sith Lord support. The presence of a Sith is established to be able to drastically decrease the abilities of normal Jedi, while both the B2 and Droidekas are both far superior models in terms of durability and firepower.

4. The Redshirts have the advantage of cover and an established position.

5. B1's do have fear, as pointed out by Gandalf. And a decided lack of tactics that are even more atrocious than those of the Klingons.

[Darth Fanboy]

Huang first you go about saying that teh battle droids can be killed in Normal fisticuffs with humans. Then you try and downplay the B-1s killing of Jedi by saying a Sith was present. Well even a Jedi with decreased abilities should be as strong as an average human right? The b-1s were killing them then, therefore the b-1 ismore than capable of taking out a regular human. (comparing your first and third points)

I ask everyone who thinks the redshirts can win. How did the TF ground forces do so well on Naboo then if they can't even defeat enemies of lesser technology with a roughly 3 to 1 advantage in numbers.

I'm not seeing much discussion over the fact that droids are easier to repair than humans after taking comparable damage. Shoot the head off a droid and replqace the head, shoot the head off a redshirt and....well at least his shirt was red to begin with.

[Lancer]

Fanboy:
My point on B1 battledroids being killed in fisticuffs with normal humans is that they're not that durable at all, not that you can completely ignore a swarm of them while you walk up and punch them to death.

The Jedi on Genosis were disadvantaged in that they had nowhere near 3-to-1 numbers, and lacked ranged weapons period.

As for the TF ground forces at Naboo. The droids were facing token armed forces (Naboo Police and Royal Guard), vastly outnumbered said token armed forces, AND had air and armor support (which they completely lack in this scenario).

[NecronLord]

Five counters to Prodigy's reasons
1. Phasers have variable settings. Usually set to stun or kill settings that don't even leave a mark on their target's body. Furthermore, the use of phasers in ship-to-ship combat show us that phasers do have settings that are effective against metals.

Hand phasers are equal to shipboard phasers. :rolleyes:

In addition, B1 droids are laughably weak, capable of being destroyed in fisticuffs with normal humans. A concussive phaser blast (as seen in ST: III) would be more than enough to take out a B1 from momentum/ke if the NDF reaction fails.

Wrong. Just wrong. Fisticuffs with normal humans? BULLSHIT! Where did you get this delusion from?

2: Blaster caribines used by B1's seem to be set onto minimum power comparable to the low-power settings used against them.

And of course, you assume that the B1s are incapable of dialing up the power. Wheras the redshirts can dial up the power to starship levels.

3. With B2, Droideka, and Sith Lord support. The presence of a Sith is established to be able to drastically decrease the abilities of normal Jedi, while both the B2 and Droidekas are both far superior models in terms of durability and firepower.

4. The Redshirts have the advantage of cover and an established position.

5. B1's do have fear, as pointed out by Gandalf. And a decided lack of tactics that are even more atrocious than those of the Klingons.

They do not have fear. They have self perservation. That's a different thing.

Klingons drop their guns to fight. B1s do not. Concession accepted.

[Robert Walper]

I'd say the Federation forces take it. Too many advantages. Fortified position, willingness and ability to take cover. Droids don't know the area and march blindly towards the enemy. They should be real easy pickings.

[Tribun]

Well, are those only the "Rodger-Rodger" Droids? Or is it a little more mixed, meaning that there are also Superbattledroids? Not that it would make a difference. The Feds have no weapons to affect a great area. Hell, even the Gungans had such kind of weapon (the catapults) and still lost to the droids.

The Feds would be squashed by the sheer mass of droids. Also phaser fire would be most likely useless against the metals the droids were made off (we see in AOTC, that the process of making the amor seems to be long, meaning it to be very dense). Oh, amor is forbidden, but do the droids use STAP?

[Praxis]

The droids have superior firepower, AND superior numbers? By 3x as much? Droids pwn the Federation. The Federation has no grasp on tactics from what we've seen and will probably just sit under cover and shoot one shot at a time at the enemy while the droids march through the city demolishing it.

[Darth Fanboy]

Now do the B-1s in the scenario only carry blaster Rifles Or are there the variants as we see in GAlactic Battlefront and Galactic Battlegrounds. BEcause if thats the case i'd love to see the Feds have fun vs. grenadiers or rocket soldiers.

[Lord Revan]

I think B1s with carbines only (B2s, heavy B2s(From Republic Commando), specialist B1s or god forbid Droidekas will turn the tide to the Droid with out shadow of dout).

[Lancer]

Five counters to Prodigy's reasons
1. Phasers have variable settings. Usually set to stun or kill settings that don't even leave a mark on their target's body. Furthermore, the use of phasers in ship-to-ship combat show us that phasers do have settings that are effective against metals.

Hand phasers are equal to shipboard phasers. :rolleyes:

shipboard phasers demonstrate effects typical of the higher-settings on hand phasers, only scaled up because of the increased power at it's disposal. However, the fact that phasers have settings that are effective against metals nullifies Fanboy's that metals automatically grant an immunity to phaser-fire.

In addition, B1 droids are laughably weak, capable of being destroyed in fisticuffs with normal humans. A concussive phaser blast (as seen in ST: III) would be more than enough to take out a B1 from momentum/ke if the NDF reaction fails.

Wrong. Just wrong. Fisticuffs with normal humans? BULLSHIT! Where did you get this delusion from?

force-throws and other impacts that toss back B1's only a few feet in Ep I repeatedly take them out of commission.

2: Blaster caribines used by B1's seem to be set onto minimum power comparable to the low-power settings used against them.

And of course, you assume that the B1s are incapable of dialing up the power. Wheras the redshirts can dial up the power to starship levels.

B1's might be able to dial up the firepower levels, but in numerous engagements in both the clone wars series and the prequel-era movies where it would have been advantagous to raise the settings, they have not done so. Whereas Federation personnel have been seen to change the settings as needed.

3. With B2, Droideka, and Sith Lord support. The presence of a Sith is established to be able to drastically decrease the abilities of normal Jedi, while both the B2 and Droidekas are both far superior models in terms of durability and firepower.

4. The Redshirts have the advantage of cover and an established position.

5. B1's do have fear, as pointed out by Gandalf. And a decided lack of tactics that are even more atrocious than those of the Klingons.

They do not have fear. They have self perservation. That's a different thing.

Klingons drop their guns to fight. B1s do not. Concession accepted.

Without armor support, the B1's can't do anything else other than march into the redshirt's aim and try to pull through with just numbers.

[NecronLord]

shipboard phasers demonstrate effects typical of the higher-settings on hand phasers, only scaled up because of the increased power at it's disposal. However, the fact that phasers have settings that are effective against metals nullifies Fanboy's that metals automatically grant an immunity to phaser-fire.

We have seen vapourisation level shots splatter off walls

force-throws and other impacts that toss back B1's only a few feet in Ep I repeatedly take them out of commission.

You sir, are a moron. Without knowing how much they weigh there is no way to tell what is required to push them over. Not to mention that the Jedi are generally interpreted to have applied that pressure to the insides of the droids. I can kill a car if I can pull the wires out in the engine. Can I do the same in fisticuffs against the car?

B1's might be able to dial up the firepower levels, but in numerous engagements in both the clone wars series

Plot mostly-canon. Visuals not.

and the prequel-era movies where it would have been advantagous to raise the settings, they have not done so.

Perhaps they didn't have time something that is not a problem here.

Whereas Federation personnel have been seen to change the settings as needed.

Senior officers have.

Without armor support, the B1's can't do anything else other than march into the redshirt's aim and try to pull through with just numbers.

Wrong. They have been shown to use cover, concealment, and surprise to their advantage. They will likely sit back and snipe the redshirts at a range where the ergonomic crapassitude of federation phasers renders a hit next-to-impossible.