[Scrubula]Battle Droids vs Federation (in ground combat)

[Vympel]

I can't believe someone actually proposed that Battle Droids getting thwacked with the Force were simply being pushed hard rather than getting wrecked on the inside. Don't you think a droid designed for use in combat would be able to survive the simple stress induced by the equivalent of a hard shove?

[Techno_Union]

Was the droid that was pushed out of the way by the Super Battle droid in the AOTC arena cut in half or damaged aside from being thrown to the ground?

[NecronLord]

Was the droid that was pushed out of the way by the Super Battle droid in the AOTC arena cut in half or damaged aside from being thrown to the ground?

Not to my memory.

[Darth Fanboy]

From the Star Wars Databank

While critics would be quick to point out a battle droid's mindlessness as a fault, the proponents of the mechanized soldiers would counter that it is instead a virtue. A mindless soldier is a loyal soldier, unquestioning of orders, easily controlled, and absolutely fearless.

It was the invasion of Naboo by the Trade Federation that showed the galaxy not only the effectiveness of battle droids, but also the glaring oversights in their design. Against a peaceful populace, the Trade Federation army of battle droids was able to quickly conquer and take control of the Naboo population centers. These droids would blindly obey orders spoken to them by their commanders or transmitted to them from an orbital Droid Control ship. The efforts of Bravo Squadron, and Anakin Skywalker in particular, destroyed the Droid Control Ship, thereby rendering the army useless.

Battle droids are tall, gaunt humanoids with exposed joints and bone-white metal finishes that gives them an eerie resemblance to animated skeletons. Battle droid infantry is frightening in its uniformity -- only a numerical marking on the back of a comlink booster pack serves to distinguish one droid from another.

Droids with specialized functions have distinct colored markings on their armor. Blue denotes pilot droids. Red denotes security droids. Yellow denotes command droids, which function with increased autonomy compared to the standard infantry.

Battle droids are very efficient. Their humanoid builds allow them to operate machinery and pilot a wide variety of war craft designed for organic pilots. For the Trade Federation, the battle droid infantry piloted STAPs, MTTs, and AATs as well as their colossal battleships. For ease of storage and transportation, battle droids could compress into less than half their size.

Following the Naboo debacle, the Galactic Republic enacted strict legislation that prohibited the use of battle droid armies. The Trade Federation has shown its disrespect for Republic law in the past, and for years, many feared that the numerous foundries scattered throughout the galaxy were still churning out assembly lines of tireless soldiers.

weigh not given but someone who knows something about robotics might know how heavy theyd have to be at least from this

Height:
1.91 meters tall

and EU stuff

In the troubled times of the Galactic Republic's waning days, many nations and worlds once again have little choice but to resort to military hardware to preserve their interests. For a time, the existence of mechanized legions were but whispered rumors, but as the Republic continued to lose control of outlying territories, their presence became indelibly felt.

The budget-minded Trade Federation cut valuable corners in the production of their Baktoid Combat Automata battle droids. These units were rushed into production to meet the Trade Federation's sudden military needs. A mindless soldier is an inexpensive soldier, a laudable trait in the slit-pupilled eyes of the Neimoidians. The cost of thousands of individual droid brains was avoided by instead relying on a Central Control Computer (CCC) housed in a modified Trade Federation battleship.

The command and security-division droids have some level of autonomy, but all battle droids are ultimately subservient to the commands of the CCC. If a droid loses contact with the control signal, it enters a stand-by hibernating mode. If deactivated, or damaged to considerable degree, a battle droid deactivates the electromagnets holding its joints together. Though this makes the droid somewhat fragile, it does prevent the spread of damage and allows the droids to be easily salvaged for future repair and reuse.

Motion-capture data of highly trained organic soldiers gave the battle droids a flexible array of combat stances, positions and maneuvers, but the droids themselves were only as strategically capable as their programmers aboard the Droid Control Ship.

Following the fiasco at Naboo, a new generation of battle droids was developed that featured enhanced intelligence and independence. Raith Sienar was assigned a protective escort of such droids for his mission to Zonama Sekot.

so I Would have to ask if this is pre TPM or post-TPM

[Darth Fanboy]

fucking tags.

[Darth Wong]

force-throws and other impacts that toss back B1's only a few feet in Ep I repeatedly take them out of commission.

I would very much like to see you throw a punch that can throw a man back the way battle droids were thrown back in TPM, even if we disregard the fact that metallic droids are going to be denser than people.

[Antares]

Just a little contribution about this robot weight stuff:

http://www.honda-robots.com/english/htm ... eset2.html
ASIMO P3:
Height 160cm
Weight 130kg

http://www.honda-robots.com/english/htm ... eset2.html
ASIMO P2:
Height 120cm
Weight 54kg

I am NOT for or against anything discussed in this thread,
i just want to give some reasonable reality reference.

[NecronLord]

Antares: They don't have inch thick armour plates. The B1 does.

[Master of Ossus]

Fanboy:
My point on B1 battledroids being killed in fisticuffs with normal humans is that they're not that durable at all, not that you can completely ignore a swarm of them while you walk up and punch them to death.

That's ridiculous. A "normal human" would never have been able to toss a person the way that the Jedi were throwing droids around, and that discounts the fact that the metal droid is going to be much more dense than a person (discounting your skull).

The Jedi on Genosis were disadvantaged in that they had nowhere near 3-to-1 numbers, and lacked ranged weapons period.

The clones had neither disadvantage, and the droids performed reasonably well against them, too, even when the Jedi were supporting the clones.

As for the TF ground forces at Naboo. The droids were facing token armed forces (Naboo Police and Royal Guard), vastly outnumbered said token armed forces, AND had air and armor support (which they completely lack in this scenario).

The droids in this scenario are going up against an army that, compared with them, is lightly armed anyway and employs very poor tactics, combined with awful combat skills. There's also the little matter that hand phasers have never been shown to penetrate metal like the stuff the droids are made out of.

[Companion Cube]

Was the droid that was pushed out of the way by the Super Battle droid in the AOTC arena cut in half or damaged aside from being thrown to the ground?

IIRC, it's head came off. The SBD may have slapped it in the neck, though. Also, it was hit by a (presumably) reflected blaster bolt prior to the event; the reason the SBD pushed it was because it was reeling back and possibly critically damaged.

[SirNitram]

Why is the idea of punching battledroids down even discussed? They are not fucking Klingons, so pathetic that ranged combat drops into fisticuffs.

[Darth Yoshi]

3 to 1 numerical advantage. Yeesh. Droids take this easy. Besides, can the Federation even field 35000 troops?

[Batman]

Why is the idea of punching battledroids down even discussed?

Why, because the incredible kinetic effects of phasers will kill battledroids left right and center, what with Jedi TK which is obviously at best equal to a human shoving them taking them out.


That smiley might not be quite as useless as I thought.

[Darth Fanboy]

Antares: They don't have inch thick armour plates. The B1 does.

true but when you think about it. A battle droid is 191cm. Using Asmio P3 (because its closer in size to the battle droid than the P2), a 1.6m robot weighs 160 kg. Meaning that the armoured, larger, B-1 battledroid would have to weigh at least 160kg? Does that sound reasonable? If i've made a mistake pleases tells mes!

If a Battledroid does weigh 160Kg, then that could go a long way towards laying the argument to rest over wether or not a redshirt could simply punch a battledroid out of comission.

[The Original Nex]

Was the droid that was pushed out of the way by the Super Battle droid in the AOTC arena cut in half or damaged aside from being thrown to the ground?

It was shot through and through by the very SBD that knocked it down.

[The Original Nex]

If you meant did the SBD cause any damage to the B1 as a result of hitting it, then no, it didn't.

[Hardy]

This is a bit of an odd method, but you could use Body Mass Index to estimate the mass of a B1. If the P3 has a BMI of about 50 (based on 130 kg/(1.6m)²), then a 1.91 metre tall robot of the same build would have a mass of 185 kg. Assuming that they take up 1/6 of a cubic metre when folded, that gives them a mean density slightly greater than water.

[Hardy]

Shit, I forgot about the square-cube law. If you divide 1.91 by 1.6 and then cube the result, and then multiply it by the mass at 1.6 metres, you'll have a 1.91 metre tall P3 that has a mass of 221 kg.

So, it's probably safe to say that the B1 has a mass between 180 and 220 kg.

[BringerOfLight]

3 to 1 numerical advantage. Yeesh. Droids take this easy. Besides, can the Federation even field 35000 troops?

Well, I don't know much about Star Trek but realistically (according to the SWTC), a single TF Battleship can field as many as 200 million B1 Battledroids so the Federation is basically screwed in any real-world comparison (even when only standard B1 Battledroids are taken into account). However, the purpose of this thread was to compare the combat capabilities of Federation ground personnel with the B1 Battledroids, the twist being that the Federation troops are fighting from a fortified position while the Battledroids have vastly superior numbers.

And pardon me for digressing but didn't we already discuss the strength and durability of the B1 in the Battledroid vs Borg Drone thread?

[Darth Fanboy]

So, it's probably safe to say that the B1 has a mass between 180 and 220 kg.

180kg as a lower limit? damn, now I Wanna go find out how many of these things an MTT carries.

[BringerOfLight]

So, it's probably safe to say that the B1 has a mass between 180 and 220 kg.

180kg as a lower limit? damn, now I Wanna go find out how many of these things an MTT carries.

I think the ICS places it to be around 112.

[Hardy]

So, it's probably safe to say that the B1 has a mass between 180 and 220 kg.

180kg as a lower limit?

Not nescessarily a hard lower limit, but it'll give you an idea.

damn, now I Wanna go find out how many of these things an MTT carries.

114 troops, I believe.

[Typhonis 1]

Droids take it easily. Redshirts have no body armorso near misses that cause building materials to fragment will cause casualties. Given the above conditons I believe that super battledroids and droidekas will be deployed.

[Antares]

Antares: They don't have inch thick armour plates. The B1 does.

You are right, but i think that in terms of power supply the B1 "gains" some weight. Sure the B1 got armor plates, but who says that those will have the same density like todays armor.
Of the 130kg for the P3 between 30-50% is just for the batteries. The power plant of the B1 is much smaller and lighter i guess.
This means more weight for armor and less weight for power plant.
Might be balancing each other.

Anyway, i cannot think of more than 200kg for the B1. Otherwise the specific ground pressure will be ridicules high and the droid might not be usefull in swampy battlefields.

Assuming 200kg for a 1.90m B1 with a single foot covering 10x30cm this is about 7 N/cm^2.

[NecronLord]

but who says that those will have the same density like todays armor.

I do. Blaser resistant armour in SW is super-dense.