The Genesis Device, Ultimate Trek DeusEx?

[SirNitram]

That ISD did not "blow up." You can see in the damn movie (remember visuals trump everything else) that the bridge got hit by an asteroid. The captain and bridge crew were killed as a result. The ship doesn't stop functioning just because the bridge is gone.

Batman method rebutall:
Proof that the ship we see getting it's bridge destroyed is the same one the faded commander was on?

Regardless, considering that my whole point was that the asteroids were a threat to the ships and could indeed damage/destroy them, I thank you for suppoorting my assertion.

Well, it's a real pity that a source declared Canon by Lucasfilm indicated that the shields would have to be down for that scene(AOTC ICS), then your 'point' would be legitimate in the way you stated it.

[The Spartan]

Batman method rebutall:
Proof that the ship we see getting it's bridge destroyed is the same one the faded commander was on?

Are you this fucking retarded? It's called inference you jackass. You see something occur on screen, then in the next cut you see something that is the result of that. How fucking hard is this to understand?

Regardless, considering that my whole point was that the asteroids were a threat to the ships and could indeed damage/destroy them, I thank you for suppoorting my assertion.

Oh wow you've realized that high density asteroid fields are dangerous places for starships to travel. Do you want a cookie?

Oh, but wait, none of the ships were actually destroyed and only one recieved any real damage and IIRC it was already severely damaged after having been hit by the Rebel's Ion Cannon.

[Straha]

Ignoring the "can it get through the shields?" question for a moment let's analyze the evidence.

What we have seen Genesis do:

1. Make life on an unstable moon/planet (twice, once inside once outside)

2. Blow up a creeky old ship that was very badly damaged.

3. Create a shockwave that might have created a star.


You cannot honnestly compare example one to a Death Star (though it would be funny if the genesis device reacted with part of the surface of the deathstar... creating a verdant planet over a fullly functioning uber battle station of doom) in structural make up or integrtiy. Assuming the device didn't 'fizzle' out initially it would probably find little to work with and sputter to a lifeless end.
Example two is easilly explained, the Genesis effect probably started off within the ship, spread thoughout the shipuntill it hit the reactor core, when it did (Throwing a wrench at that thing could probably set it off, not to mention re-arranging primary components of the core's mechanisms) it set off a massive explosion that spread throughout the nearby vicinity, spreading the genesis effect aswell.
Example three is also easilly explained (if it actually created the star) by example two, reacting with the nebula whatever in-born control mechanisms inside Genesis converted it into a star which would allow at least a small chance of life. In fact in order to make the effect it did it probably fed off the explosion of the reactor core and the nebula gases which allowed it to create a star AND reach the planet's surface and do it's voodoo on that as well.

That being said it's highly doubtful that the device would effect the deathstar. ANd if it did it would probably only be a surface effect, and nothing major internally (Genesis only reacted on the 'surface' of the interior cavern, why would it do otherwise elsewhere.) Without a reactor core explosion the Genesis device would probably fizzle out without matter to feed the effect, and that would be the end of it.

[Straha]

Ghetto Edit: I meant to make it clear that the "Without a reactor core to feed it" was if it were detonated in space and not on the surface of a planet.

[Batman]

Genesis did most certainly NOT create a star, it created a planet (which, if the Trek wankers would pause to think for a moment, they'd realised was WAY BEYOND what Genesis was ever supposed to do in the first place).
The star present was the Ceti Alpha sun. Unless there were twin suns visible sometime in the movie.

[Straha]

Genesis did most certainly NOT create a star, it created a planet (which, if the Trek wankers would pause to think for a moment, they'd realised was WAY BEYOND what Genesis was ever supposed to do in the first place).
The star present was the Ceti Alpha sun. Unless there were twin suns visible sometime in the movie.

Err... the Planet was already there, remember? We saw it repeatedly in Wrath of Khan...

[Batman]

Err... the Planet was already there, remember? We saw it repeatedly in Wrath of Khan...

I DO think Genesis created ANOTHER planet as opposed to merely modyfying Dr. Marcuses prototype, but I am by no means certain. Are you?

[Patrick Degan]

The Mutara Nebula was not located in the Ceti Alpha system. The novelisation of TWOK identified the star as Regulus, but in any case it was a different star system and the Genesis Planet was formed from the material of the Mutara Nebula.

[Batman]

As both starships made it to the Mutara Nebula on impulse, it at the very least extended into the Ceti Alpha system. s

[Patrick Degan]

As both starships made it to the Mutara Nebula on impulse, it at the very least extended into the Ceti Alpha system. s

No, because both battles took place in the vicinity of the Regula I facility, which was not located in the Ceti Alpha system.

[Bounty]

The Mutara Nebula was not located in the Ceti Alpha system. The novelisation of TWOK identified the star as Regulus, but in any case it was a different star system and the Genesis Planet was formed from the material of the Mutara Nebula.

Or from the planetoid that Regula Station was in orbit of. the wave travelled significantly faster then a starship on maximum impulse, it could have reached that rock easily.

Though I still like to think it created the Genesis Planet from the nebula.

[Patrick Degan]

The Mutara Nebula was not located in the Ceti Alpha system. The novelisation of TWOK identified the star as Regulus, but in any case it was a different star system and the Genesis Planet was formed from the material of the Mutara Nebula.

Or from the planetoid that Regula Station was in orbit of. the wave travelled significantly faster then a starship on maximum impulse, it could have reached that rock easily.

Though I still like to think it created the Genesis Planet from the nebula.

The planetoid around which the space station orbited had nowhere near the requisite amount of mass to account for a terrestrial-sized world. The only other source of free matter in large quantity was the Mutara Nebula itself.

[Batman]

As both starships made it to the Mutara Nebula on impulse, it at the very least extended into the Ceti Alpha system. s

No, because both battles took place in the vicinity of the Regula I facility, which was not located in the Ceti Alpha system.

Um, err, ah-
look! A three-headed monkey!!!
Wouldn't it have been easier to simpy type 'Coceeded', Master Bruce?
Since when do I ever do anything the easy way?

The planetoid around which the space station orbited had nowhere near the requisite amount of mass to account for a terrestrial-sized world. The only other source of free matter in large quantity was the Mutara Nebula itself.

I rather remember it being a full-size if lifeless planet but it seems you're sure about this. It's been a while since I saw that movie.

[Patrick Degan]

The planetoid around which the space station orbited had nowhere near the requisite amount of mass to account for a terrestrial-sized world. The only other source of free matter in large quantity was the Mutara Nebula itself.

I rather remember it being a full-size if lifeless planet but it seems you're sure about this. It's been a while since I saw that movie.

You can tell because the curve of the horizon is too steep relative to the size and position of the Regula I station as it appears on Khan's viewscreen. Also, we see the pan from where the Enterprise is hiding on the opposite side to where the Reliant is orbiting, and there is simply too little planetoid for it to be mistaken for anything other than a small-sized body.

[Batman]

The planetoid around which the space station orbited had nowhere near the requisite amount of mass to account for a terrestrial-sized world. The only other source of free matter in large quantity was the Mutara Nebula itself.

I rather remember it being a full-size if lifeless planet but it seems you're sure about this. It's been a while since I saw that movie.

You can tell because the curve of the horizon is too steep relative to the size and position of the Regula I station as it appears on Khan's viewscreen. Also, we see the pan from where the Enterprise is hiding on the opposite side to where the Reliant is orbiting, and there is simply too little planetoid for it to be mistaken for anything other than a small-sized body.

Planetoid it is, then.

[Slartibartfast]

[Burak Gazan]

Dammit, now I gotta clean coffee of the monitor again

[Solauren]

The movie version of the Genesis device is questionable at best against Imperial Warship.

We have no idea what effect it will have on imperial shields. Hell, Star Trek shield might be able to block it.

In fact, if it does workon Transporter principles, I'd be surprised if Star Trek shields CAN'T block it.

Everyone was scared of it because if it was used on an inhabited planet, it would wipe out all the life/infrastructure.

Functioanlly, from a miltiary perspective, it's no different then a bio-weapon or chemical attack or massive orbital bombardment. It just cleans up after itself.

Now, if we want to look at the novelization of the movie version of Genesis, that's a vastly different animal.
That version of genesis.....

Star Trek 3; Search for Spock
Doctor Carol Marcus:
"Genesis is a procedure by which the molecular structure of matter is broken down, not into subatomic parts as in nuclear fusion, or even into elemental particles, but into sub-elementary particle-waves" (p127)

That version of Genesis might be able to harm Star Wars ships.

Unfortunately, that's as canon as fan-fiction

Which in it's own way is a bit of a shame. In the same book, it mentions how the Federation has a ship that had reached the Andromeda galaxy a few days prior and subspace radioed back them observing a Supernova occuring. And not a generation ship either, as Admiral Kirk knew the captain.

[John Chris]

Somehow, I don't think transmutating the metal hull of a Star Destroyer is going to do much more than give it a funny new look. Transmutations simply rearranges the structure of said atoms in the same structure, so while it would most likely reduce the turbolasers to metal flowers or something, it's likely not going to bother the Star Destroyer itself. Now if the Torp's energy was able to reach inside the hull (and I doubt it), it could cause some problems.

just my opinion for what it's worth.