[Scrubula]Battle Droids vs Federation (in ground combat)

[Darth Wong]

I don't suppose anyone will be shocked to discover that Scrubula is an AOLer.

Remember, you can't spell "Asshole" without AOL.

The fact that he snipped out the parts of my post where I made my core arguments and then claimed I made no real arguments (even though anyone can look back and see that he snipped out the parts he couldn't handle, ie- most of the post) is more than enough proof of what kind of asshole he is.

[AdmiralKanos]

OK Scrubula, your five minutes are up. It's quite obvious that you're a troll who was just waiting for me to post so you could amp up your trolling and then get banned. No doubt you will now run around claiming that you were banned because we were "afraid" of your non-arguments and non-proofs. Well guess what: I don't give a fuck. Anyone can see your behaviour in this thread for what it is.

[Gunhead]

Yes you can Servo. "Darkstar"

OT: Revan is right. If stainless steel is the max we can get, that ain't gonna cut it against droid armor. Normal stainless is less durable than armor grade steel.

-Gunhead

[Lord Revan]

Yes you can Servo. "Darkstar"

OT: Revan is right. If stainless steel is the max we can get, that ain't gonna cut it against droid armor. Normal stainless is less durable than armor grade steel.

-Gunhead

it's a cooking pot, those are rarely made of armor grade material, as for Scrubula's "arguments" I own all of TNG DVD's and I can't recall any episode were phasers was used "vaporise" armor, cut or burn thru yes, but not "vaporise".

[Darth Servo]

I own all of TNG DVD's and I can't recall any episode were phasers was used "vaporise" armor, cut or burn thru yes, but not "vaporise".

He made reference to the combat drones in "Arsenal of Freedom" but they blew up when shot, not vaporized.

[Master of Ossus]

FYI, there is a relatively new user on strek-v-swars.net who goes by the monicker "scrubula." Anyone want to lay odds on them being one and the same?

[Darth Wong]

FYI, there is a relatively new user on strek-v-swars.net who goes by the monicker "scrubula." Anyone want to lay odds on them being one and the same?

I knew he was a Darkstar acolyte the instant he broke out that "warsie debating" trick. The fact that he was only here to troll was already obvious by that point. No one in his right mind on either side of the Trek vs Wars debate could possibly look at his behaviour and conclude that he ever had any serious intention to discuss anything.

They come here expecting to get banned the instant they say something good about Trek. When that doesn't happen, they decide to act more and more offensive and trollish until they do get banned, so they can run back to Darkstar and say "hey, it happened to me too!"

[Darth Servo]

I knew he was a Darkstar acolyte the instant he broke out that "warsie debating" trick. The fact that he was only here to troll was already obvious by that point. No one in his right mind on either side of the Trek vs Wars debate could possibly look at his behaviour and conclude that he ever had any serious intention to discuss anything.

They come here expecting to get banned the instant they say something good about Trek. When that doesn't happen, they decide to act more and more offensive and trollish until they do get banned, so they can run back to Darkstar and say "hey, it happened to me too!"

Should we start a pool on what school grade the tard is in? I'd say no higher than 9th.

[Darth Fanboy]

Has anyone read anything on the comparative value of B-1s and Super Battledroids? Is the Super twice as powerful but twice the cost also?

And back to the original post, I ask again, are these B-1 droids armed only with blasters? Or are there the various configurations as seen in games such as Galactic Battlegrounds and Battlefront?

[BringerOfLight]

Has anyone read anything on the comparative value of B-1s and Super Battledroids? Is the Super twice as powerful but twice the cost also?

And back to the original post, I ask again, are these B-1 droids armed only with blasters? Or are there the various configurations as seen in games such as Galactic Battlegrounds and Battlefront?

Its blasters only, otherwise there probably wouldn't be any dissent regarding which army would come out on top.

[harbringer]

I don't understand people like scrubula, If they actually had contestable points of value - other than their intelligence relative to water temperature - I doubt anyone here would ban them. Hey I have made pro trek arguments (a counter insurgency thread) when it has been appropriate I didn't get banned. Personally I would like to have a good debate.

So back to the point I don't think a phaser can do more than scrub a bit of armour from the droids. And it is armour against blasters which I think have better penetration than a phaser ref: things like the doors on the tantive and DS, mos eisly launch bay. Not that this helps since there will be a considerable number of Droideka's that have shielding powerfull enough to hold against their own weapons ref: fight outside the bridge in TPM with the jedi and droids. The SBD's have their integral blasters heavy armour and likewise most likely pretty immune.

Since TNG there have been no instances of federation support weapons (starfleet is their defacto support but can't always be there). Transporters might do some damage untill countered but one must assume from the setup that the redshirts don't have access to these or that they have already been countered.

With blasters I don't see any way for the federation to counter such forces, federation troops don't even dig in - but somehow I think that would be limited value in either case.

So if the roles were reversed and a stupid admiral sent in 25,000 redshirts against the 5000 defending battle droids in a counter attack could they win?.

[Darth Lucifer]

OK Scrubula, your five minutes are up...<snip>

(Galvatron) Terminate Him!

Damn! I missed all the action! And why did that little fuck stick have to type in all caps anyway...

[Dave]

Ok, I am a SW fan, but who says the Feds have to shoot at the droids? If you crank the power setting up to level 10 or so, and then shoot at the ground under the droid, shouldn't that disable it? I don't think it has ever been shown in the episodes, but why not? With higher setting, you (1) darin the batteries faster and (2) don't have to hit to kill. Is the ground covered with inch thick armor too? It might be difficult to stand when the ground under you explodes. Might that disable a leg? (or multiple droid legs?)

[Darth Wong]

Ok, I am a SW fan, but who says the Feds have to shoot at the droids? If you crank the power setting up to level 10 or so, and then shoot at the ground under the droid, shouldn't that disable it? I don't think it has ever been shown in the episodes, but why not? With higher setting, you (1) darin the batteries faster and (2) don't have to hit to kill. Is the ground covered with inch thick armor too? It might be difficult to stand when the ground under you explodes. Might that disable a leg? (or multiple droid legs?)

Why did Worf have to use a bulky "isomagnetic disintegrator" (read: futuristic RPG) in STI in order to accomplish that same effect if any old hand phaser on level 10 can do it?

[Darth Lucifer]

If you crank the power setting up to level 10 or so, and then shoot at the ground under the droid, shouldn't that disable it? I don't think it has ever been shown in the episodes, but why not? )

The closest thing we have seen would be the "exploding rock" effect we've seen with phasers in ST:I. But I'm not about to make that leap in logic; there's a difference between shooting a "wall" of rock (which is open and clear on the other side) and solid ground.

With higher setting, you (1) [drain] the batteries faster and (2) don't have to hit to kill. )

If a hand phaser can do what you think it can do. Bring some proof to the table please.

Is the ground covered with inch thick armor too? It might be difficult to stand when the ground under you explodes. Might that disable a leg? (or multiple droid legs?)

Armor on the ground? Interesting idea...I can't wait to hear the answer to this one. Why would anyone do that?

[Darth Lucifer]

Hold on a sec...I think we did see that effect in Hide and Q. I just remembered. Can anyone confirm?

[harbringer]

You could shoot the ground and maybe disintergrate it but what then ?you have a bunch of battle droids getting back to their feet and proceeding to kill anyone that fired. Even shrapnel from a water vapour expansion in rock wouldn't have the ability to penetrate the armour, being combat droids I believe they would be highly impact resistant. It is likely they have design features to prevent scabbing on the inner faces of the armour and have some method of preventing componants being knocked loose. The force push by a jedi doesn't seem to be just a shove to tip the droid over.

It wasn't a bad try though

[Darth Lucifer]

You could shoot the ground and maybe disintergrate it but what then ?you have a bunch of battle droids getting back to their feet and proceeding to kill anyone that fired.

I think Dave was talking about boom-boom effects to give the feddies an edge in firepower. If the episode "Hide and Q" supports that...whoopie doo. They'll get far less shots off, run out of juice faster, and get overrun by the remaining droids.

[harbringer]

>snip< Even shrapnel from a water vapour expansion in rock wouldn't have the ability to penetrate the armour, being combat droids >snip<

Mario1470 I know thats why I put the above in, I believe (though I could be wrong...) that is the only explanation for the "explosive" effect phasers often have on rock.

[Darth Lucifer]

I wasn't sure what you meant by the water vapor thing.

I'm sure I saw a section on the phasers page on that...

[Kurgan]

The instances of phasers cutting/melting/blasting/exploding through "rock walls" in TNG and DS9 are documented in Mike's canon database, IIRC.

Is "durasteel armor" stronger than the rock/walls in those cases? You be the judge...

The Klingon's ceremonial armor (TNG and later) seems pretty weak, since Batleth's can penetrate it.

As far as exploding robots goes, in addition to the drones in Arsenal of Freedom there's also the STI Sona drones. Not vaporized, but destroyed in one shot from hand phasers (also destroyed by phaser rifles swung baseball bat style at close range!).

[harbringer]

The problem is trekkies really want phasers to be able to everything - the swiss army knife of weapons. They also transfer the way they feel about characters to they way they feel about their equipment it isn't a reasoned thing they do it is automatic. It isn't personification (justified with say stormbringer but thats another thread...) but some weird empathy, if Kirk/Data/Worf/insert trekkie fave here - use it then it must be kick arse. Combine the two and you get some weird philosophy that if they can't destroy battle droids directly then they can do it indirectly.

Thats just my opinion so feel free to challenge if you want - after all there is no evidence either way to support it but feel that it is the case...

[Elfdart]

Do the Feds get any kind of demo or heavy weapons (hand-held), or is it just redshirts with phasers?

Two big "ifs" might give the Federation troops a chance:

IF#1: The Battle Droids have to take the town more or less intact. Sitting back and laying waste to the joint at long range is not an option.

IF#2: The Feds have explosives and other demolition gear.

Otherwise, the Battle Droids sit back and wipe out the Feds building by building.

[Darth Wong]

Even room to room, the battledroids have a huge numerical advantage, fearlessness, and better firepower on their side. Hell, they could probably assign superbattledroids to room-clearing duties with great effectiveness. A superbattledroid can just walk around a corner and spray automatic fire all over a room with only a slight chance of being taken down.

[dragon]

Ok even if the hand phasers can hurt the bots (doubtful) it would most likely take sustained high level shots which would drain the phasers so what about the pulse rifles they use. Do these rifles transfer as much energy as the hand phaser just in less time.