Executor Vs. Vger

[Sephirius]

this was interesting, came up on this irc chan I was on

could the Executor win against Vger?

[Crossroads Inc.]

It Depends...

Somehow I get the feeling that a bunch of people are going to role thier eyes in a “Oh come ON! It’s just stupid StarTrek Tech”

But ‘V’Ger’ ISN’t StarTrek Tech. It’s well, I’m not sure what it is but it’s really, REALLY big, and it can blow the crap out of starships if it wants. Considering the ship itself is just about 98km long, I would see the Energy it produces could easily withstand bombardments from the Executor.

We also know It’s plasma bomb thingies, the Really Big Green ones anyways, could easily wipe out all life on Earth. Now, in Sci=Fi this isn’t really a big deal, but is something.

Also, one other thing to consider... V’Ger is NOT a Warship, it is basically, a Massive Science vessel.

[Drooling Iguana]

Kinda tough to quantify V'Ger's firepower, since its weapons were most certainly not DET. However, the Enterprise's shields did manage to stand up to a hit from one of them, although we don't know if that was its maximum power. We're also led to believe that if all of the Enterprise's anti-matter reacts with matter at the same time, the resultant energy release would be enough to destroy V'Ger, which would give us an idea as to its durability, but we never got to see them test that theory.

[Crossroads Inc.]

We're also led to believe that if all of the Enterprise's anti-matter reacts with matter at the same time, the resultant energy release would be enough to destroy V'Ger, which would give us an idea as to its durability, but we never got to see them test that theory.

I was waiting for someone to mention this... Hounestly, I think Scotty was blowing smoke... Given the size of V'Ger, give the power it produces, I seriously doubt that even if the whole Enterprise was antimater, it would be enough to blow V'Ger sky high...

[Drooling Iguana]

Maybe he forgot to multiply by four...

[Isolder74]

We're also led to believe that if all of the Enterprise's anti-matter reacts with matter at the same time, the resultant energy release would be enough to destroy V'Ger, which would give us an idea as to its durability, but we never got to see them test that theory.

I was waiting for someone to mention this... Hounestly, I think Scotty was blowing smoke... Given the size of V'Ger, give the power it produces, I seriously doubt that even if the whole Enterprise was antimater, it would be enough to blow V'Ger sky high...

Well the plan appears to take out the central control with the hope that it would save the earth. If it worked an enty hulk would no longer pose a threat to the Earth.

[Darth Wong]

Given the size of V'Ger, give the power it produces, I seriously doubt that even if the whole Enterprise was antimater, it would be enough to blow V'Ger sky high...

V'Ger wasn't that big, and Enterprise was inside it at the time, which would make the explosion much more effective.

As for its power output, it can't be that impressive. Enterprise survived several hits from its weapons, and it deployed a whole slew of them in order to sterilize Earth.

[Adun]

could the Executor win against Vger?

Dunno, but the mini Robo-Kys rules.

[18-Till-I-Die]

For someone who knows jack about ST...

What in Kirk's name is a Vger?

[SirNitram]

For someone who knows jack about ST...

What in Kirk's name is a Vger?

The big baddie from the first Star Trek movie. It's the Voyager probe, with some sort of super-duper-wankish starship grown around it, collecting data on things.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Given the size of V'Ger, give the power it produces, I seriously doubt that even if the whole Enterprise was antimater, it would be enough to blow V'Ger sky high...

V'Ger wasn't that big, and Enterprise was inside it at the time, which would make the explosion much more effective.

As for its power output, it can't be that impressive. Enterprise survived several hits from its weapons, and it deployed a whole slew of them in order to sterilize Earth.

The people over at STARSHIP DIMENSIONS Have it's size at 98km, which is what I'm going off of..

[Darth Wong]

The people over at STARSHIP DIMENSIONS Have it's size at 98km, which is what I'm going off of..

Well, if the E-Nil was a million tons (based on ratio to E-D's TM mass and length) and was completely annihilated into energy as per your earlier statement, you would have 9E25 J, or a blast roughly equivalent to 20 million gigatons of TNT. That would be enough to blow apart a 500 kilometre wide solid nickel-iron moon, so I don't see why it shouldn't rip V'Ger a new asshole.

Of course, the Enterprise was not solid matter/antimatter; you were just exaggerating for effect. So let's assume it could convert 5 tons of matter and antimatter to energy; that would be roughly equivalent to 100 gigatons of TNT. That would be enough to shatter a solid nickel-iron asteroid roughly 30 km wide. V'Ger is bigger than that, but as stated previously, you don't need to completely destroy it in order to disable it. That should be more than enough to cook V'Ger's goose.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Well, if the E-Nil was a million tons (based on ratio to E-D's TM mass and length) and was completely annihilated into energy as per your earlier statement, you would have 9E25 J, or a blast roughly equivalent to 20 million gigatons of TNT. That would be enough to blow apart a 500 kilometre wide solid nickel-iron moon, so I don't see why it shouldn't rip V'Ger a new asshole.

Point conceded, I was over exaggerating...

However I've been working on something:

First off, before I get into the Meat of what I want to say, I have to state that while I am by no means a Trekki, I really like V’Ger. Yes, the Movie was slow and plodding, yes it made no sense in parts, but V’Ger, the ship and the concept behind it, was REALLY cool.

They state that the ship is just 400 years old. Now, remember when Spock mentions “V’Ger has knowledge that spans this Galaxy”[i/] That means, that in just 400 years, V’Ger was able to scan much of the known Galaxy! That’s a HECK of an accomplishment! I mean in order to cover that much raw space, it’s got to be moving fast, at StarWars speeds or much higher. And, perhaps scanning areas as large as several Light Years at a time. That’s one Heck of Scientific Instrument there!


Also few things on V’gers ‘Digitizing’ things…

Spock, while inside V’Ger, mentions:
“Moons, stars, whole planets” suggestion that V’ger had stored these things inside it.

Now then, many Trekkies have said that V’ger must have gone around Digitizing’ planets for this to be, thus demonstrating V’Gers awesome firepower. ((this is usually used in V’Ger vs DeathStar arguments)) This is silly. For one, as I mentions, V’ger is one massive Science vessel, Digitizing things is ONLY used against things it deems aggressive. ((And yes, the Argos Array counts because, as mentioned V’Ger considering it being scanned as a Hostile act.)) Second, if V’Ger had gone about digitizing everything, there would VAST portions of the Galaxy missing… Obviously V’Ger only uses this as a last resort

Ok, so where am I going with this? Well, that basically while V’Ger doesn’t go around digitizing everything, it CAN digitize (I’m guessing) anything. While about 98% of the things in V’Ger were probably scanned passively, anything that might have attacked it was probably digitized. So, theoretically it MIGHT be able to, given enough power, simply digitize the Executor.

Ahhh, you say, then why didn’t it kill the Enterprise with it’s first shot? Simple, It was working from previous experience, basically Klingon ships. And the Enterprise has slightly stronger shields. It’s stated that no matter what, they wouldn’t have survived another shot. My guess is that against the Executor, V’Ger would slowly increase the power of it’s shots till it breached it’s shields.

[Darth Wong]

You're still assuming a capability without evidence. The ability to do X does not necessarily mean you can do 50,000 times X.

[Crossroads Inc.]

You're still assuming a capability without evidence. The ability to do X does not necessarily mean you can do 50,000 times X.

You know... I know your right, but gosh darn it, I really Liked V'Ger It just, I dunno, if ANYHTHING in StarTrek could take on an Executor, you would think this would be it...

[Vympel]

Unfortuantely for V'Ger, Executor would be unloading turbolaser and ion cannon broadsides into it from the start in any event.

I also question the whole V'Ger's knowledge angle- this is a machine that was too stupid to understand what Enteprise was and its relation to the crew and too stupid to figure out it had scum on its nameplate and really should've rubbed some off to actually figure out it was Voyager 6

[Junghalli]

Kinda tough to quantify V'Ger's firepower, since its weapons were most certainly not DET.

Dunno about firepower, but in the movie Spock said it was generating more power than Earth's sun. That's gotta put in a par even with the more wanky estimates of SW ship power generation.

[SirNitram]

Kinda tough to quantify V'Ger's firepower, since its weapons were most certainly not DET.

Dunno about firepower, but in the movie Spock said it was generating more power than Earth's sun. That's gotta put in a par even with the more wanky estimates of SW ship power generation.

Sun output: 3.827E26 W

The core-ship of the Trade Federation's converted freighters in the Clone Wars:

Power: reactor peak 3e24W; peak shield capacity 6e23W

Not inconceivable the Executor could output V'ger, then, as it was militarized, more advanced, larger, and not a bloody freighter.

[The Spartan]

Kinda tough to quantify V'Ger's firepower, since its weapons were most certainly not DET.

Dunno about firepower, but in the movie Spock said it was generating more power than Earth's sun. That's gotta put in a par even with the more wanky estimates of SW ship power generation.

Actually, as noted on the Pure Star Wars board a Trade Fed Control ship could fly into the sun and not be harmed.

But that, of course, also assumes that it would be able to focus *all* that power in one direction.

[Isolder74]

Well, if the E-Nil was a million tons (based on ratio to E-D's TM mass and length) and was completely annihilated into energy as per your earlier statement, you would have 9E25 J, or a blast roughly equivalent to 20 million gigatons of TNT. That would be enough to blow apart a 500 kilometre wide solid nickel-iron moon, so I don't see why it shouldn't rip V'Ger a new asshole.

Point conceded, I was over exaggerating...

However I've been working on something:

First off, before I get into the Meat of what I want to say, I have to state that while I am by no means a Trekki, I really like V’Ger. Yes, the Movie was slow and plodding, yes it made no sense in parts, but V’Ger, the ship and the concept behind it, was REALLY cool.

They state that the ship is just 400 years old. Now, remember when Spock mentions “V’Ger has knowledge that spans this Galaxy”[i/] That means, that in just 400 years, V’Ger was able to scan much of the known Galaxy! That’s a HECK of an accomplishment! I mean in order to cover that much raw space, it’s got to be moving fast, at StarWars speeds or much higher. And, perhaps scanning areas as large as several Light Years at a time. That’s one Heck of Scientific Instrument there!


Also few things on V’gers ‘Digitizing’ things…

Spock, while inside V’Ger, mentions:
“Moons, stars, whole planets” suggestion that V’ger had stored these things inside it.

Now then, many Trekkies have said that V’ger must have gone around Digitizing’ planets for this to be, thus demonstrating V’Gers awesome firepower. ((this is usually used in V’Ger vs DeathStar arguments)) This is silly. For one, as I mentions, V’ger is one massive Science vessel, Digitizing things is ONLY used against things it deems aggressive. ((And yes, the Argos Array counts because, as mentioned V’Ger considering it being scanned as a Hostile act.)) Second, if V’Ger had gone about digitizing everything, there would VAST portions of the Galaxy missing… Obviously V’Ger only uses this as a last resort

Ok, so where am I going with this? Well, that basically while V’Ger doesn’t go around digitizing everything, it CAN digitize (I’m guessing) anything. While about 98% of the things in V’Ger were probably scanned passively, anything that might have attacked it was probably digitized. So, theoretically it MIGHT be able to, given enough power, simply digitize the Executor.

Ahhh, you say, then why didn’t it kill the Enterprise with it’s first shot? Simple, It was working from previous experience, basically Klingon ships. And the Enterprise has slightly stronger shields. It’s stated that no matter what, they wouldn’t have survived another shot. My guess is that against the Executor, V’Ger would slowly increase the power of it’s shots till it breached it’s shields.

I've never seen most of those images as actual objects stored inside V'Ger . If such was the case then the planet that built the huge craft surrounding V'Ger we would have to assume V'Ger destroyed as soon as they were done with it. Not likely I'd say. Spock says that he thinks that it is a huge Image projection system that he is flying through. So I always figured those images were mearly a recod of V'Ger's trip(And Spock right out says such) if all those were all digitized objects there should have been 3 Klingon Cruisers inside yet we only see one. Its a massive picture book nothing more!

So V'Ger kept a picture album of its trip. What does that have to do with its firepower?

The Weapons are identified by Spock as Plasma Torpedos of unknown compositions and control systems. 'Digitizing' actually hurts their arguments after all.

[Vympel]

I don't recall any incidence of Spock saying V'Ger had stellar level power output- only that it had a vaguely defined "12 power" energy field that Decker stated was beyond the capabilities of "thousands of starships" to generate.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I've never seen most of those images as actual objects stored inside V'Ger . If such was the case then the planet that built the huge craft surrounding V'Ger we would have to assume V'Ger destroyed as soon as they were done with it. Not likely I'd say. Spock says that he thinks that it is a huge Image projection system that he is flying through. So I always figured those images were mearly a recod of V'Ger's trip(And Spock right out says such) if all those were all digitized objects there should have been 3 Klingon Cruisers inside yet we only see one. Its a massive picture book nothing more!

I never said all those things were PHYSICALLY stored inside V'Ger, just anything that posed a threat was digitized... It's all only a theory anyways... Technically speaking, by all common sense those three Klingon ships along with thousands of other ships should be in there.

Personally, I always thought the insides of V’Ger that Spock went through was like a Massive Holo-Deck, and, indeed, Spock was seeing a record of V’Gers jounery. I reasoned that most of the items in that record were recorded through passive scanning, but others, that V’Ger deemed aggressive, were in their because of the Digitizing thing.

I don't recall any incidence of Spock saying V'Ger had stellar level power output- only that it had a vaguely defined "12 power" energy field that Decker stated was beyond the capabilities of "thousands of starships" to generate.

At one point Spock says "Facinating, It is putting out an Energy greater then Earths Sun"

[Junghalli]

I don't recall any incidence of Spock saying V'Ger had stellar level power output- only that it had a vaguely defined "12 power" energy field that Decker stated was beyond the capabilities of "thousands of starships" to generate.

I distinctly remember him saying something like "it's generating more power than Earth's sun" or something along those lines just as Vger (the vessel, not the cloud) comes into view. Perhaps somebody could see if they can't find the actual script?

[NecronLord]

Obviously V’Ger only uses this as a last resort

Rodenberry's book, questionably canon, has it digitising the homeworld of a race that attacked it in retaliation.

[DaveJB]

I distinctly remember him saying something like "it's generating more power than Earth's sun" or something along those lines just as Vger (the vessel, not the cloud) comes into view. Perhaps somebody could see if they can't find the actual script?

What he actually said was "Thousands of starships couldn't generate that much power".