How many volts does it take to stun vs. kill?

[Zaia]

So, I've decided to shop around for stun guns to see how affordable they are. They're about as expensive as I thought they would be, but the range of voltage is more expansive than I would've thought.

A sample of prices:
100,000 volts - $22
200,000 volts - $30
300.000 volts - $35
625,000 volts - $70

Now, I admit I know next to nothing about volts, voltage, whatever--which is why I'm asking you all. And I apologize in advance if my questions are dumb, but here's what has me concerned. Obviously there's a big difference betweeen the first two on that list, since the second stun gun has twice the voltage of the first. So how do you know which one to get? If your target is an average-sized person, will the 100,000 volt gun do nothing but annoy him? Will the 625,000 possibly kill him? What's safe but effective?

Site with info I quoted.

[Robert Walper]

Go with the highest output one. So in the case it severely injuries him? Shucks...maybe he shouldn't have made you feel the need to use it perhaps?

[aerius]

First off, some cheery news:
Tasers don't work as soon as they're off
Multiple taser shots fail to stop
Woman laughs off a stungun

Browse through Selfdefense Forums and you'll find many more threads and stories of tasers & stunguns that failed to stop, hardly reassuring.


You want the highest voltage possible that you can still comfortably carry and handle, anything else just ain't worth it.

For the record, a surprising number of people are practically immune to the damn things, while others with medical conditions or whatnot end up dropping dead.

[Zaia]

For the record, a surprising number of people are practically immune to the damn things, while others with medical conditions or whatnot end up dropping dead.

Well, that's not reassuring at all.

[Jaepheth]

it's not voltage that kills, it's amps.

[Dennis Toy]

or you want to see this video....

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=tazered.wmv

its actually roitous!

[aerius]

Well, that's not reassuring at all.

No it isnt, nothing in selfdefence reality is. The reality is it's a crapshoot, there's no magic device or technique that has a near 100% chance of incapacitating the attacker without killing him or causing him serious permanent harm. Stunguns can work, but all too often they fail. You can't depend on them as the "magic bullet" and must have a backup plan in place for when they do fail, and that is true with pepperspray, knives, batons, brassknuckles, or any other device used for selfdefence. They're just part of the toolkit, the most important part is mindset and training, without which everything else is useless.

[Zaia]

Well, that's not reassuring at all.

No it isnt, nothing in selfdefence reality is. The reality is it's a crapshoot, there's no magic device or technique that has a near 100% chance of incapacitating the attacker without killing him or causing him serious permanent harm. Stunguns can work, but all too often they fail. You can't depend on them as the "magic bullet" and must have a backup plan in place for when they do fail, and that is true with pepperspray, knives, batons, brassknuckles, or any other device used for selfdefence. They're just part of the toolkit, the most important part is mindset and training, without which everything else is useless.

Ok. Perhaps I'll check out the prices for self-defense classes then instead.

Thank you all.

[Col. Crackpot]

Ok. Perhaps I'll check out the prices for self-defense classes then instead.

Thank you all.

If you are looking at ways to defending yourself against a larger attacker, Judo and Akido are two arts designed to use the weight of your attacker against them. Just my two cents. Pepper Spray is also an option. Personally i think you should go with a nice chrome Colt .380, with Hello Kitty grips.

Also, i have been zapped by 3.4KV AC at .5 milliamps and it just shook me a litle bit. I have also been hit by 208 at 20 Amps and it flung me 4 feet. yowza!

[Aaron]

Zaia I'm not to sure where about you live but look around for something that dispenses CS gas at the attacker. The dispenser would be something similar to pepper spray but uses CS, which is commonly called "tear gas" which when highly concentrated like it is in a self defense device is extremely effective at incapacitating the opponent.

A trade name I've seen for this is "thunderbolt", if your in the US it can probably be found at most gunshops or gunshows. And I've heard good things about and I've been at the recieving end of CS gas in the military and it can be very incapacitating in concentrated form.

It is not 100% effective of course but few things are, personally I'd recommend a self-defense class coupled with a device mentioned in this thread, but if you have any questions PM me, I'd be happy to help.

[Lancer]

So, I've decided to shop around for stun guns to see how affordable they are. They're about as expensive as I thought they would be, but the range of voltage is more expansive than I would've thought.

A sample of prices:
100,000 volts - $22
200,000 volts - $30
300.000 volts - $35
625,000 volts - $70

Now, I admit I know next to nothing about volts, voltage, whatever--which is why I'm asking you all. And I apologize in advance if my questions are dumb, but here's what has me concerned. Obviously there's a big difference betweeen the first two on that list, since the second stun gun has twice the voltage of the first. So how do you know which one to get? If your target is an average-sized person, will the 100,000 volt gun do nothing but annoy him? Will the 625,000 possibly kill him? What's safe but effective?

Site with info I quoted.

hmmn, aren't stunguns illegal in Baltimore, Baltimore County, Howard County, and several other parts of Maryland? I should know this, I'll need to look it up.

[Lancer]

hmmn, aren't stunguns illegal in Baltimore, Baltimore County, Howard County, and several other parts of Maryland? I should know this, I'll need to look it up.

a quick google confirms that stunguns/tasers are illegal in Annapolis, Baltimore, Baltimore County, and Howard County.

[Shroom Man 777]

You also have to factor probabilities. How high are your chances of getting attacked? How high are the chances of your attacker being those types immune to high-voltage tasers? Because if tasers are useless all the time, then why are they still being sold?

[Lancer]

You also have to factor probabilities. How high are your chances of getting attacked? How high are the chances of your attacker being those types immune to high-voltage tasers? Because if tasers are useless all the time, then why are they still being sold?

Tasers provide superior range to conventional stunguns, and you can zap your attacker repeatedly if need be while still staying outside their reach.

But if your worried about stopping power, don't bother going out to buy a stungun, just make your own. If a college student can scrounge up enough parts from dumpster-diving to make a functional arc-wielder, I'm sure that going to radio shack or whereever to buy the parts won't be too much of a problem.

[Shroom Man 777]

...she's a music instructor/teacher. You think she could make a stungun on her own? And even if she did, a home-built stungun would most probably turn a person into toast. DEAD toast!

[Lancer]

oh, I though you were worried about stopping power for your own purposes...*attmepts to whistle*

anyways, as I stated earlier in the thread, electronic weapons are illegal in Annapolis, Baltimore, Baltimore County and Howard County, so if Zaia lives in one of these parts of Maryland, they're not even an option for her.

[Shroom Man 777]

Then she could just get a gun.

Anyway, this stun-kill thing reminds me of that episode in Futurama. Where Zap performs a ribbon cutting ceremony in a space station over the Neutral Planet. He sets his laser from stun to kill to HYPERDEATH, then he proceeds to cut the ribbon from his spaceship, destroying the DOOP (Democratic Order of Planets) space station in the process.

Anyway, back to topic. The chances of getting mugged and gang banged is pretty slim, and most people don't ever bother getting tasers. But if you feel like you should obtain some means of personal defense, then just buy one. You're probably not going to use it, and if having one nearby will make you feel better, then why the hell shouldn't you get one?

[General Brock]

Zaia wrote:

Ok. Perhaps I'll check out the prices for self-defense classes then instead.

Um, I hate to be discouraging, but unless you are planning to live MA as a big part of your life, there are limits to what a self-defense class can teach. Look to developing a 'stay safe' attitude.

Look for classes that teach preventative habits, like looking around your environment for potential ambush points, checking the back seat of your car before climbing in, spotting bullies before they happen and become part of your life, tricks like strangers asking for the time or directions, simple fighting moves like shin-kicking versus a judo-throw, and avoiding/recovering from tripping. A lot of easy stuff is already on the web, from abuse-prevention sites especially.

Going to the local fieldhouse and running like hell (or just around the block) just to see of you can is more useful than learning advanced fighting tricks you won't practice once self-defense class is over. I remember when Tae Bo was trendy, and some women's testimonials that they felt they could handle themselves in a fight. Such delusion is not a safe attitude at all.

Cpl Kendall's advice on chemical sprays and other near-skilless weapons might be more your league, but most personal weapons can be lost and used against you. Even the 'smart gun' is still very much fiction, so unless you are willing to put out the time to make combat training a constant in your life, not relying on armed safety is the best way to go.

If you do have reasonable grounds to fear your safety beyond this, then mace spray and a handgun, with regular training in use, is the best way to go.

[Shroom Man 777]

Handgun, yeah. Training with it can be really fun, and it could become a hobby. Just get one of those small guns with small calibers, because they'll have a better chance at incapacitating rather than killing, as opposed to your average firearm. If something bad actually does happen (Jeebus forbid), your weapon has zero chance of not fucking up (unlike the aforementioned tasers), and even if it does, guys will run like hell at the sight of a gun.

[Sea Skimmer]

Handgun, yeah. Training with it can be really fun, and it could become a hobby. Just get one of those small guns with small calibers, because they'll have a better chance at incapacitating rather than killing, as opposed to your average firearm.

That is the WORST FUCKING ADVICE EVER. You buy a gun to KILL. You buy ammo for a gun to KILL. If you are not prepared for this basic fact, then you should not be using any form of gun for self-defence. Reliable incapacitation only comes from powerful cartridges, which are by extension highly lethal. If you are shooting there should be no question that you intend to kill the person you are firing on, and you must have a gun and ammunition combination that can do it consistently.

If something bad actually does happen (Jeebus forbid), your weapon has zero chance of not fucking up (unlike the aforementioned tasers), and even if it does, guys will run like hell at the sight of a gun.

A weak handgun is just asking for you to shoot the person a half dozen times, because the first five shots didn't work, only to have them cover that last foot and stab you to death with a knife.

[Shroom Man 777]

Ah hell

[Darth Yoshi]

It's not the volts, its the amps that'll get ya. But that's already been mentioned. *grumbles*

Anyway, I've heard that dogwhips make surprisingly effective self defense weapons. Of course, I don't know first-hand, so take that however you will.

[Shroom Man 777]

Ah hell

Curse the editting button, I wanted to add "what the hell was I thinking when I posted that" to that...yeah.

Anyway, aren't there specialized sprays designed to be used against angry dogs? I remember there were, and if those things work on angry dogs, then they'll work on a human.

[Lancer]

Ah hell

Curse the editting button, I wanted to add "what the hell was I thinking when I posted that" to that...yeah.

Anyway, aren't there specialized sprays designed to be used against angry dogs? I remember there were, and if those things work on angry dogs, then they'll work on a human.

I'm pretty sure those depend on the fact that dogs have much more sensitive noses than humans.

[The Spartan]

I'm pretty sure those depend on the fact that dogs have much more sensitive noses than humans.

And aren't they just variations on pepper spreay or tear gas that's used for humans? That's what I thought, anyways.