Executor Vs. Vger

[Robert Walper]

Weapons wise, I think the best bet would be a guestimate on how much firepower was required to drop the E-A's shields by V'ger's weapon system. We then later learned V'ger could deploy many multiple weapons "hundreds of times more powerful" in preperation for decimating Earth.

Presumeably such weapons, particularily a large quantity of them, could pose a serious threat to even a Executor Class Star Destroyer.

[Bounty]

As for its power output, it can't be that impressive. Enterprise survived several hits from its weapons, and it deployed a whole slew of them in order to sterilize Earth.

It survived one hit, and would be destroyed by the next.

Weapons wise, I think the best bet would be a guestimate on how much firepower was required to drop the E-A's shields by V'ger's weapon system. We then later learned V'ger could deploy many multiple weapons "hundreds of times more powerful" in preperation for decimating Earth.

I'm sure someone will tear these numbers apart, but here goes -

In Star Trek VI, the E-A (which is virtually identical to the TMP Enterprise) survives at least seven torpedo impacts (plus more implied off-screen) before they hit bare hull. Assuming the Klingons use similar topedoes as the Federation - 64 MT upper limit (following the main site) - the shields can withstand a total of 448 MT before failing.

V'Ger's was stopped by the shields, but just barely, and the Enterprise wouldn't survive another attack, so it would have to be nearly 450 MT. Multiply by "hundreds of times" and you know what one of the "big" blobs of doom can do; V'Ger spat out about half a dozen over Earth.

...I think.

[The Spartan]

V'Ger's was stopped by the shields, but just barely, and the Enterprise wouldn't survive another attack, so it would have to be nearly 450 MT. Multiply by "hundreds of times" and you know what one of the "big" blobs of doom can do; V'Ger spat out about half a dozen over Earth.

Yes but since SW shields can hold up to more than "hundreds of times" that 450 MT figure Vger will have a hell of a time taking the Executor down.

I think the Executor would be able to destroy Vger. Especially if her TIE fighter/bomber and missle boat squadrons are able to dodge Vgers weapons and launch Torpedoes and make strafing runs. To say nothing of the thousands of TL's the Executor carries.

[Bounty]

I think the Executor would be able to destroy Vger. Especially if her TIE fighter/bomber and missle boat squadrons are able to dodge Vgers weapons and launch Torpedoes and make strafing runs. To say nothing of the thousands of TL's the Executor carries.

We know absolutely nothing about V'ger's hull strength or shield strength - how can you say with certainty that the Executor can destroy it ?

[The Spartan]

We know absolutely nothing about V'ger's hull strength or shield strength - how can you say with certainty that the Executor can destroy it ?

I didn't say with certainty.

I think the Executor would be able to destroy Vger.

I *think* they would. I don't *know* they would.

[Darth Wong]

I think the Executor would be able to destroy Vger. Especially if her TIE fighter/bomber and missle boat squadrons are able to dodge Vgers weapons and launch Torpedoes and make strafing runs. To say nothing of the thousands of TL's the Executor carries.

We know absolutely nothing about V'ger's hull strength or shield strength - how can you say with certainty that the Executor can destroy it ?

We don't. What we do know is that its power output is not necessarily as great as some people think it is. There are far too many unknowns about V'Ger to be sure of anything.

[Robert Walper]

I'm sure someone will tear these numbers apart, but here goes -

In Star Trek VI, the E-A (which is virtually identical to the TMP Enterprise) survives at least seven torpedo impacts (plus more implied off-screen) before they hit bare hull. Assuming the Klingons use similar topedoes as the Federation - 64 MT upper limit (following the main site) - the shields can withstand a total of 448 MT before failing.

Closer attention to Mike's torpedo analysis shows that this method of estimating the E-A's shield strength is quite flawed. Suffice to say you can further review his analysis, but he concludes one shouldn't estimate torpedo yield against enemy targets any higher than 10 to 32 megatons tops. So at best (and argueably unreasonably optimistic) the E-A's shield strength would only be half of your 448 MT.

V'Ger's was stopped by the shields, but just barely, and the Enterprise wouldn't survive another attack, so it would have to be nearly 450 MT.

As pointed out above, half of that, and that is still being extremely generous. The yield could be as low as just seventy megatons, and even lower if one subscribes to Federation torpedoes only being the kiloton range at most.

Multiply by "hundreds of times" and you know what one of the "big" blobs of doom can do; V'Ger spat out about half a dozen over Earth.

...I think.

Well, even taking your incorrect number of 448 MT, and multiplying that by say 500, we get a yield of 224 gigatons. In other words, even a ridiculasly optimistic number crunching for V'ger yields just over one SW medium TL battery.

I can't say that puts V'ger in a positive light in the matchup.

[Bounty]

I'm sure someone will tear these numbers apart, but here goes -

And I was right...

Well, even taking your incorrect number of 448 MT, and multiplying that by say 500, we get a yield of 224 gigatons. In other words, even a ridiculasly optimistic number crunching for V'ger yields just over one SW medium TL battery.

As I said, the Enterprise was hit by more then seven torpedoes, I only counted the ones you could see or hear hitting the ship. Still, you're right.

[Vanas]

Wasn't the big cloud of V'Ger many AU across? Dunno if that counts for much, but given the apparent density of the cloud, actually hitting the V'Ger structure itself might be tricky.

[Bounty]

Wasn't the big cloud of V'Ger many AU across? Dunno if that counts for much, but given the apparent density of the cloud, actually hitting the V'Ger structure itself might be tricky.

82 AU, later retconned to 2 AU in the Director's Edition. The shortest route to V'ger is probably less then that - the cloud wasn't spherical, and the measurment was probably taken at it's widest point.

[Nephtys]

V'Ger's was stopped by the shields, but just barely, and the Enterprise wouldn't survive another attack, so it would have to be nearly 450 MT. Multiply by "hundreds of times" and you know what one of the "big" blobs of doom can do; V'Ger spat out about half a dozen over Earth.

Yes but since SW shields can hold up to more than "hundreds of times" that 450 MT figure Vger will have a hell of a time taking the Executor down.

I think the Executor would be able to destroy Vger. Especially if her TIE fighter/bomber and missle boat squadrons are able to dodge Vgers weapons and launch Torpedoes and make strafing runs. To say nothing of the thousands of TL's the Executor carries.

*yawn*. This happens each time any versus is brought up. yep, Star Wars level tech is obscenely powerful. But this trend is so woefully boring. People that say SW wins this because. Just because...

V'ger has very, very few solid facts on it. There's no reference point to say if this is possible or if it isn't.

[Stark]

*yawn*. This happens each time any versus is brought up. yep, Star Wars level tech is obscenely powerful. But this trend is so woefully boring. People that say SW wins this because. Just because...

V'ger has very, very few solid facts on it. There's no reference point to say if this is possible or if it isn't.

'Just what you see, pal.'

We see V'Gers weapons: they suck. This is hardly surprising: V'Ger was dangerous because (gasp) it could cause mayhem on earth. It threatened to kill everyone: as far as uberpower goes, that's pretty lame. It's not just SW that would kick V'Gers ass: most other mid-to-high scifi universes could too.

How anyone can complain, when this is well within the scale of ST technology, amazes me. If V'ger casually exploded Mars to make a point, there'd be grounds for comparison.

[Robert Walper]

*yawn*. This happens each time any versus is brought up. yep, Star Wars level tech is obscenely powerful. But this trend is so woefully boring. People that say SW wins this because. Just because...

Did you read the above figures, including the mention of how favorable they were for V'Ger?

V'ger has very, very few solid facts on it. There's no reference point to say if this is possible or if it isn't.

While I agree, what we do know and even very generously estimate still puts V'Ger in a pretty poor standing.

[Admiral_K]

They state that the ship is just 400 years old. Now, remember when Spock mentions “V’Ger has knowledge that spans this Galaxy”[i/] That means, that in just 400 years, V’Ger was able to scan much of the known Galaxy! That’s a HECK of an accomplishment! I mean in order to cover that much raw space, it’s got to be moving fast, at StarWars speeds or much higher. And, perhaps scanning areas as large as several Light Years at a time. That’s one Heck of Scientific Instrument there!

Thats a leap in logic. A bridge spans a river, but you wouldn't say that a bridge covers most of the river because of that. Simply traveling accross the galaxy would give Vger "knowledge that spans this galaxy". Given Vger's demonstrated speed, I'd think the more conservative estimate would be best.

[Batman]

Urm-threadomancy is bad, okay?

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah...okay, let's not dig old threads out with sorta points.