Firefly - Can I expect more?

[Stravo]

I watched the Pilot episode and am currently watching "The Train Job"

I will be upfront and say this right off the bat. I am not buying the premise. A western in space. The premise in order for it to work is a tortured contrivance in the same vein as why Dune still uses melee weapons and no computers. The difference is that I bought the premise of Dune, I'm not as hot about Westerns so that colors alot of what I see in this series so far.

I know there are some rather strong fans of this series here so keep all this in mind. I am not saying "This shows suxxors." I AM saying that I just don't buy the premise and so enjoyment suffers.

The music. No. I don't like it. Sorry. Western music in general doesn't do it for me. (Except for Once Upon a Time in the West - fantastic soundtrack)

The back story so far for the series is mixed for me. I liked the opening sequence. The closing shot of the Alliance ships landing en masse was excellent and I thought "Cool".

Then we get to 6 years later and the story starts out slow. Whatever, no problem for me.

The Captain needs to grow on me because frankly he doesn't do it for me. He has the stereotypical pretty boy handsome face and that "I'm a tortured hero with a bad past and I'm working through some issues" backstory that comes right out of leading man stock backstory #23.

The pilot I like very much, nice guy, doesn't ham it up, not much scenery chewing and his taste in wives is excellent.

Pilot's wife (sorry not up on the names yet) is very good. Pretty, smart, not your average pretty woman on the bridge type.

Kaylie - Cute but not much else to her character (granted I'm on ep. 2)

Simon - Thought he was going to be a far more interesting character from his intro. The sharp suit, air of mystery. Turns out he is the cliched city boy in the wild west.

Jane - Tough guy. Very one dimensioonal and really getting on my nerves and its only ep. 2.

The Hooker - Ok, what's a western without a hooker right? Hold on - add the Captain who can't admit he loves her so he treats her like shit angle.

The Preacher - What's a western wihtout a preacher. Hold on - add the Captain is a tortured soul who saw so much he no longer believes in God angle. In ep. 2 he says "I feel pretty much useless here." To which I responded to the screen "You bet."

River - Oh god, no. Not a tortuted Psionic person. Why can't psionically gifted be presented as well adjusted and Ok with their powers? Not THAT would not be a cliche.

The Firefly herself is not a pretty ship but she's not meant to be so I like that.

The special effect are top notch. The Reavers ship was very intimidating and well done. The Firefly flying and the Alliance cruisers were also great. One little quibble - It looks like the Alliance raided the warehouse where the Starship Troopers props were kept.

Things I want to see more of:

The Reavers. They built them up to be scary as shit. I want to see them in action.

More on the backstory. However The Alliance = Union/ Independents = Confederacy is a bit UGH in my opinion.

Less of:

Please, I don't want to see any more telegraph poles and horses. Sorry, just not buying this premise. (And a fucking train heist?! )

I thought I was going to cry when the Train Hesit opens with a bar brawl. Can we not have an adventure show that has a bar brawl? Especially one where the heroes get to kick ass and take names while being heavily outnumbered? No more cliched openings

So seeing as that I only have seen two episodes can I expect more from this show in terms of better character development, more action, more backstory, Reavers?

And just what is that strange little language they keep dropping in conversation? I don't mind that its not explained but when it keeps being done I'd like to have a hint as to what it comes from/based on? This show is maddening in not giving us more backstory (Ep. 2 so far so I am an impatient bitch,) Say what you will about the Neo-BSG Mini it gave us ALOT of backstory.

[Imperial Overlord]

The language bit is Chinese ( I don't know if it Cantonese or Mandarin).

More interesting character development in episodes to follow. I think you will be pleased with it as it deals with some of your complaints/areas of interest.

Some more development of the Reavers, but the show did get axed early so it won't be enough. Sorry, you are as screwed as the rest of us.

[Lord Poe]

Stravo;

I gave it three episodes before I gave up on it. I hated everyone BUT Jayne, especially the little pussy "doctor"

Because I have an original sci-fi story I've been playing with since high school with almost the same premise, I had to give it another chance, so I rented the complete series. I still didn't like it, until I got to the episode, "Jaynestown".

After that, it hooked me. Pore through them until you get to "Jaynestown", then see if you want to continue. It really does get better after that.

[Lord Poe]

Things I want to see more of:

More on the backstory.

This show did something really smart. They give you the "origin" story toward the end of the first season. This gives the actors a few episodes to grow into their characters.

[Stofsk]

I will be upfront and say this right off the bat. I am not buying the premise. A western in space. The premise in order for it to work is a tortured contrivance in the same vein as why Dune still uses melee weapons and no computers. The difference is that I bought the premise of Dune, I'm not as hot about Westerns so that colors alot of what I see in this series so far.

It makes a lot of sense; these people are on the frontier, and what do you expect the frontier to look like? They mix high technology in with the drabby, dusty settings on occasion, while sometimes the place is just a piece of dirt on some planet somewhere.

Dune is fucking ridiculous in comparison. "OMG we got shieldz! We gotta bring back knivess/swordz!!!" In Firefly, the only swordfight we have comes from a duel. Lasers are rare. Fights are still settled by who's got the quicker gun.

Makes perfect sense to me, and the inspiration seems to come from the RPG Traveller - at least, a lot of fans of either the show or the RPG seem to make the connection, as have I.

The music. No. I don't like it. Sorry. Western music in general doesn't do it for me.

To each his own, I don't mind the music but at the same time I don't think it's crash-hot either.

The Captain needs to grow on me because frankly he doesn't do it for me. He has the stereotypical pretty boy handsome face and that "I'm a tortured hero with a bad past and I'm working through some issues" backstory that comes right out of leading man stock backstory #23.

Its archetypal, given we've already seen WHAT he's tortured about. We see him lose the war at the very start of the episode; for the rest of the episode, he's quite clearly in a bad mood. Unlike the stereotypical 'Strong Silent Type', Mal has a reason for his pain, and it's given the very first time we see him.

The pilot I like very much, nice guy, doesn't ham it up, not much scenery chewing and his taste in wives is excellent.

Interestingly, I don't like the pilot all that much.

I do like how they made him a coward, which is a nice juxtaposition to his wife and the captain and Jayne.

Simon - Thought he was going to be a far more interesting character from his intro. The sharp suit, air of mystery. Turns out he is the cliched city boy in the wild west.

There's more to his story than that, but the ship needs a Doctor anyway.

Jane - Tough guy. Very one dimensioonal and really getting on my nerves and its only ep. 2.

He's the comic relief, and the actor (something Baldwin) plays him just right. Personally I find the guy a hoot.

Plus, there's more depth to his character. But you wouldn't be able to see it from the first two episodes.

The Hooker - Ok, what's a western without a hooker right? Hold on - add the Captain who can't admit he loves her so he treats her like shit angle.

The treat each other like shit.

The Preacher - What's a western wihtout a preacher. Hold on - add the Captain is a tortured soul who saw so much he no longer believes in God angle. In ep. 2 he says "I feel pretty much useless here." To which I responded to the screen "You bet."

You're jumping the gun if you think he's "just a preacher."

Wait and see. Well, actually... no, his character isn't sufficiently fleshed out by the end. This is what happens when FOX cancels you. But there are hints he's more than what he SAYS he is.

Let me put it this way: if you want to run from something or are in hiding, what do you do? Disguise yourself as something beyond reproach and walk among the masses.

River - Oh god, no. Not a tortuted Psionic person. Why can't psionically gifted be presented as well adjusted and Ok with their powers? Not THAT would not be a cliche.

Except she's literally tortured by what was done to her.

Again, these are just first impressions... wait and see. Things change (in River's case, the very last episode has the MOST amount of character development for her, and somewhat spoilerish, but by the end it's clear she 'gets over it' so to speak, or at least that was the impression you arrive at when you finish watching "Objects in Space").

The Firefly herself is not a pretty ship but she's not meant to be so I like that.

Bah. I thought they pushed the 'bird' lookalike angle too much, and thus I hate the fucking ship.

The special effect are top notch. The Reavers ship was very intimidating and well done. The Firefly flying and the Alliance cruisers were also great. One little quibble - It looks like the Alliance raided the warehouse where the Starship Troopers props were kept.

Ok this is weird, you like all the things I dislike about the show. I hate the Alliance cruisers, and the Reavers are just a phantom menace (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ).

Things I want to see more of:

The Reavers. They built them up to be scary as shit. I want to see them in action.

...

Yeah, same here. I want to see what the fuss is all about.

More on the backstory. However The Alliance = Union/ Independents = Confederacy is a bit UGH in my opinion.

While I suppose it's obvious that was the angle they were going for, I personally don't see anything wrong with it.

Please, I don't want to see any more telegraph poles and horses. Sorry, just not buying this premise. (And a fucking train heist?! )

Telegraph poles? Frontier colony. What, they're gonna have DSL and high-speed satellite cable the minute they step off the colony ship?

Horses? No problem, same as above, it's a frontier colony.

Trains? Heists? Again... and? They're thieves, the thing they wanted to swipe was on a train. 2+2=?

I can get it if you don't like the premise, because not everyone likes the same flavour. But the premise is more or less sound.

What's cheaper: a horse, or a hovercraft? A paved highway for cars, and the cars themselves, and the industry for both, versus a train track? In one of the later episodes, a BG is seen riding a hovercraft while all his lackey's are on horses; he's wielding an expensive laser gun while all his lackey's have guns and rifles. It's clear that he's been funneling colony funds for his personal use, and thus can AFFORD these items.

I thought I was going to cry when the Train Hesit opens with a bar brawl. Can we not have an adventure show that has a bar brawl? Especially one where the heroes get to kick ass and take names while being heavily outnumbered? No more cliched openings

The hell?

And just what is that strange little language they keep dropping in conversation?

It's called Chinese. Only a billion people in the world speak it.

I don't mind that its not explained but when it keeps being done I'd like to have a hint as to what it comes from/based on? This show is maddening in not giving us more backstory (Ep. 2 so far so I am an impatient bitch,) Say what you will about the Neo-BSG Mini it gave us ALOT of backstory.

Well I have yet to see Neo-BSG, so I'll take you for your word.

As to the language, Joss likes to explain it by saying he thought in the future, America and China would team up - this as a reaction to the usual "OMG we gotta nuke Beijing before those commies steal our bodily fluids LOL!!!!" mentality a lot of idiots have. Plus, some of the phrases are essentially swear words, and this was a way to get it past the censors and Ethics Police. It's not explained because it's not really necessary to explain it - like in SW, do we get an explanation as to why the readouts are in Basic and not in English? No, we just accept it as their written language. In a similar vein to this, we accept that in the Firefly universe, China and the USA joined forces and settled their differences, and now slobs from both can speak the other's language.

[fgalkin]

And just what is that strange little language they keep dropping in conversation? I don't mind that its not explained but when it keeps being done I'd like to have a hint as to what it comes from/based on? This show is maddening in not giving us more backstory (Ep. 2 so far so I am an impatient bitch,) Say what you will about the Neo-BSG Mini it gave us ALOT of backstory.

Dude, you live in NYC and you've never heard Chinese?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Soulman]

Firefly isn't over yet, a movie is being released this year (they have finished filming and are in post-production). If the movie does well Universal has the option to make 2 more although the chances of a series is almost nil because of the deal they have with Fox.

After 14 episodes I care more about the characters than in TNG, DS9 or VOY after 7 seasons which is pretty amazing.

[Nephtys]

Firefly isn't over yet, a movie is being released this year (they have finished filming and are in post-production). If the movie does well Universal has the option to make 2 more although the chances of a series is almost nil because of the deal they have with Fox.

After 14 episodes I care more about the characters than in TNG, DS9 or VOY after 7 seasons which is pretty amazing.

But look at the shows you've quoted. VOY and DS9 were darn shallow in their first 14 episodes... and well. Some would argue stayed that way. TNG's first season was mostly atrocious. Now say, do you care more about those Firefly characters than say.. the first season casts of SG-1? NeoBSG? B5?

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'll put it this way...

IMHO, the acting and writing and general overall quality of the individual episodes of Firefly (especially the Pilot, Jaynestown, and Our Mrs Reynolds) were better than abouy 90-95% of the shows i've seen before or since.

Yeah i'm a fanboy. I dont care.

The characters were great, the acting was spot on, the writing combined darkness and action and humor and did it wonderfully, and i want to personally kick the ass of whoever axed it.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Along with Neo-BSG, Firefly is probably the best American sci-fi show of recent times, sadly, it was shown at stupid times and not in order (the only place it was shown in one time slot and in perfect order was on Sci-Fi in the UK). The movie I wholly look forward to, but I can't help but want a new series instead.

I never thought I'd be hooked on it, I always didn't give a shit when people talked about it in '02 and complained when it got canned. After getting the DVD box set last Xmas, I can sympathise with them.

Stick with it, Strav, it's good stuff, maybe not original if you like Bebop, but a good show nonetheless.

[HemlockGrey]

Stravo, the series is light on exposition about the history of the galaxy. There's a few hints and details dropped, but no one ever really sits down and explains how things came to be. It's not epic in the BSG or B5 sense of a few people pitted against empires and nigh-invincible forces of nature with vast, sweeping plots. It's a much more personal story.

Oh, and the Alliance/Union Independents/Confederacy thing is not really played up on much. There's not much political stuff in the story.

Anyway, I don't see what's wrong with the setting. Some people just seem to have a bit of cognitive dissidence when it comes to it (spaceships...and horses? Preposterous!), but considering most of the episodes take place on the fringes of civilization, it makes sense. When they go into the rich core worlds things are much more technologically advanced (floating mansions, flying cars, high-tech scanners, etc). In the pilot, Mal says that the Alliance often drops settlers onto the worlds with "shovels and some cattle". so naturally they'll be less advanced.

And yeah, there's tons of character development. You see, the pilot just set all the stuff up (duh) and then the Train Job did it again, because the pilot aired last and so the writers were forced by Fox to write The Train Job over a weekend to make a deadline.

"Bushwhacked" focuses on the Reavers, BTW.

[Il Saggiatore]

Anyway, I don't see what's wrong with the setting. Some people just seem to have a bit of cognitive dissidence when it comes to it (spaceships...and horses? Preposterous!), but considering most of the episodes take place on the fringes of civilization, it makes sense. When they go into the rich core worlds things are much more technologically advanced (floating mansions, flying cars, high-tech scanners, etc). In the pilot, Mal says that the Alliance often drops settlers onto the worlds with "shovels and some cattle". so naturally they'll be less advanced.

Imagine the difference between the cities in the east of the United States and the "wild west" in the 19th century.

[Soulman]

But look at the shows you've quoted. VOY and DS9 were darn shallow in their first 14 episodes... and well. Some would argue stayed that way. TNG's first season was mostly atrocious. Now say, do you care more about those Firefly characters than say.. the first season casts of SG-1? NeoBSG? B5?

It took longer with SG-1 and B5, I'd say that Firefly did a far better job with characters than either. It's more even with Neo-BSG. I agree with Admiral Valdemar that Firefly and Neo-BSG are the best televised sci-fi for a long time.

[HemlockGrey]

For me, the thing that puts Firefly over the top of neo-BSG is that the episodes are more interesting ("Water" and "Litmus" nearly put me to sleep, although the later episodes were good, but "Ariel" and "Objects in Space" destroy them...), and it's a much funnier show. Much better dialogue (can you honestly say you didn't laugh when Mal kicked the villanious henchmen into the engine?).

[Death from the Sea]

For me, the thing that puts Firefly over the top of neo-BSG is that the episodes are more interesting ("Water" and "Litmus" nearly put me to sleep, although the later episodes were good, but "Ariel" and "Objects in Space" destroy them...), and it's a much funnier show. Much better dialogue (can you honestly say you didn't laugh when Mal kicked the villanious henchmen into the engine?).

that part where Mal kicks that dude into the engine is great, it shows you that the Captain is not this entirely good and moral person, this is what made me like the character Mal.

My favorite character is Wash the pilot or maybe Jayne the merc.

Stravo get through "Out of Gas" and you get alot of backstory.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I agree. Out Of Gas is one of the best episodes and I wish the series ended with that to be honest.

[Stravo]

I finished "The Trainjob" last night. I blinked when the Captain shoved the brute into the engines. Did I just see that? Rewound. Yes indeed. I liked that very much.

I'm going to give the show a chance. I've got the entire series on my rental list to watch I just felt so disappointed after watching those two episodes after hearing all this teeth gnashing about the series being cancelled that I needed to ask people if it picks up.

[18-Till-I-Die]

If you get to Jaynestown you'll be hooked. I wont spoil it for you, cuase you have to see it for yourself, but God was that hilarious. And sad. Great dialogue too.

Our Mrs Reynolds has some of the funniest writing of the whole series, and that is saying something. Plus a sweet bit of action too.

And Heart of Gold was a fantastic action episode, with some funny lines from Jayne.


I love the way they effortlessly combine seriousness and action with humor. I cant beleive the people who mad Firefly was the same folks who produced that DREADFUL Buffy/Angel combo. Might make me give the latter series a second chance.

[septesix]

And just what is that strange little language they keep dropping in conversation? I don't mind that its not explained but when it keeps being done I'd like to have a hint as to what it comes from/based on? This show is maddening in not giving us more backstory (Ep. 2 so far so I am an impatient bitch,) Say what you will about the Neo-BSG Mini it gave us ALOT of backstory.

Dude, you live in NYC and you've never heard Chinese?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I lived in taiwan and it took me a couple of tries to figure out that it's Chinese.

And no, it's not Cantoness. It's Mandarin. Badly pronounced mandrain , by today's standard, but Mandrain none the less.

[CaptainChewbacca]

*strums his guitar*

Jayyyyneee,
The man they call Jayyyyneee...

He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor
Stood up to the Man and he gave him what for
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain
The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne

Now Jayne saw the Mudders' backs breaking
He saw the Mudders lament
And he saw the magistrate taking
Every dollar and leaving five cents
So he said, "You can't do that to my people"
He said "You can't crush 'em under your heel"
Jayne strapped on his hat
And in five seconds flat
Stole everything Boss Higgins had to steal

He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor
Stood up to the Man and he gave him what for
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain
The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne

Now here is what separates heroes
From common folk like you and I
The man they call Jayne
He turned 'round his plane
And let that money hit the sky
He dropped it onto our houses
He dropped it into our yards
And the man call Jayne
He turned 'round his plane
And headed out for the stars

He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor
Stood up to the Man and he gave him what for
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain
The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne!

***
We've gotta go to the crappy planet where I'm a hero.

[Durandal]

The only sci-fi show to match Firefly's caliber lately is Battlestar Galactica. Watch it the whole way through (or at least up to "Our Mrs. Reynolds"); you'll love it.

I lived in taiwan and it took me a couple of tries to figure out that it's Chinese.

Depends on who you listen to. Wash's actor admitted that any "Chinese" he spoke was gibberish he made up on the spot.

[RedImperator]

I finished "The Trainjob" last night. I blinked when the Captain shoved the brute into the engines. Did I just see that? Rewound. Yes indeed. I liked that very much.

I'm going to give the show a chance. I've got the entire series on my rental list to watch I just felt so disappointed after watching those two episodes after hearing all this teeth gnashing about the series being cancelled that I needed to ask people if it picks up.

Stick with it. I guarantee you, one half season Firefly managed to produce at least three episodes ("Out of Gas", "Ariel", and "Objects in Space") better than absolutely anything Voyager and Enterprise managed in 11 years. Hell, they may be better than anything since the third season of TNG.

[neoolong]

I lived in taiwan and it took me a couple of tries to figure out that it's Chinese.

Depends on who you listen to. Wash's actor admitted that any "Chinese" he spoke was gibberish he made up on the spot.

Oddly enough, I could understand him better than most of the other actors' attempts. Even fairly long sentences.

[Joe Momma]

And no, it's not Cantoness. It's Mandarin. Badly pronounced mandrain , by today's standard, but Mandrain none the less.

You could probably rationalize pronunciation issues as changes in the language over the years.

It's interesting that English is the standard language for general communication but expressions of strong emotion and excitement are usually in Chinese. I'm not sure what that says as far as the blending of the cultures, though.

-- Joe Momma

[18-Till-I-Die]

On the complete series DVD, i think it was Joss Whedon who mentioned his idea was that "sometime in the future" the only countries left were America and China. The implication is, i think, that the two superpowers eventually merged into one huge hyper-power.