Is God Democratic?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-18 11:40pm

When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-04-18 11:44pm

considering god hasnt offered to lay down his power, checks or balances, an explanation on all the tithes and prayers he collects, or term limits -

I would say, no, he is not democratic.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2005-04-18 11:53pm

I figure the apologists would say that democracy is only a good idea for humans, but God is infallible and therefore we can trust His absolute rule.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-04-18 11:57pm

Stravo wrote:When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?

My question, is how the hell can the pope be 'Gods voice on Earth' if the pope is chosen by a bunch of Cardinals?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-18 11:58pm

Knife wrote:
Stravo wrote:When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?
My question, is how the hell can the pope be 'Gods voice on Earth' if the pope is chosen by a bunch of Cardinals?

Because whomever they chose is obviously the one that God has chosen.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-04-18 11:58pm

God's already chosen the pope, and the cardinals have to figure it out?

Damn shame it's not really one of them eh?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-04-19 12:15am

Stravo wrote:
Knife wrote:
Stravo wrote:When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?
My question, is how the hell can the pope be 'Gods voice on Earth' if the pope is chosen by a bunch of Cardinals?
Because whomever they chose is obviously the one that God has chosen.

You gotta love it when the system is set up for a win/win for the big guy upstairs.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-04-19 01:03am

The whole election by Cardinals thing was set up back when the Pope was the bishop of Rome plus whoever he could convince to believe he was head of the church. Bishops were elected by the congregation back in the day, but it was an open vote with no weapon check. The office was a prize for the various Roman noble houses and involved in the feuding between them because of it. So having churchmen select who was Pope was actually an improvement.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-04-19 01:33am

Stravo wrote:When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?

Figuring it out? What, shadowpuppets? Charades?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-04-19 02:41am

Knife wrote:
Stravo wrote:When you consider the whole Papal election procedure, secret voting by a small elite, smoke signals as the announcement of a successor, no one knows whose running, etc.

If this is the way to choose the leader of the Christian faith does that mean God does not believe in democracy?

BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?
My question, is how the hell can the pope be 'Gods voice on Earth' if the pope is chosen by a bunch of Cardinals?

Because God inspires them. As I understand it, the vote must be unanimous to select a new Pope.

And no. God is not democratic. There is nothing in the bible about "rule of the people". God dictates his law and the people obey.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-04-19 03:07am

I hope this time they chose a guy thats not completely alienated from the world. Someone who actually been to slums and saw poverty. Some kind of mother Theresa

Chances of that happening are offcourse non excisting

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-19 04:55am

Stravo wrote:BTW a Cardinal stated that God has already chosen the new Pope and it is up to the Cardinals to figure out who it was. So...there's no free will in choosing a Pope?

The idea is that he's God's representative on Earth. Why should there be free will involved for anyone but God and the Pope? If I say you're my representative in America, I don't see why you need to be elected to that post by the people of America. I would have just given you the job. In the same way, God gives the pope his job.Or so Catholisism would tell us.

In much the same way, in the book of Johnah, we see God selecting a representative who doesn't want to be a representative. God proceeds to persecute him until he relents.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-04-19 05:31am

So you're telling me that if a Pope tries to step down, a Great White Shark will come out of nowhere and gobble him up?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-19 08:41am

That would be the belief.

Melchior · Post by **Melchior** » 2005-04-19 09:22am

Darth Servo wrote:Because God inspires them. As I understand it, the vote must be unanimous to select a new Pope.

Actually he only need 2/3 of the votes, but the cardinals can/t vote for themselves.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2005-04-19 12:38pm

Pope John Paul II changed the voting proceadure back in 1995 or 1996. It used to be that the cardininals would be locked up until they could finally get someone elected with at least 2/3 of the vote, no matter how long it took. Now if they haven't gotten the 2/3's vote by the end of one week then which canidate has a simple majority is the winner.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-04-19 12:39pm

Come on people, haven't you ever heard that God works in mysterious ways?

sketerpot · Post by **sketerpot** » 2005-04-19 12:54pm

The belief that God is influenced by prayers, combined with the fact that people often try to get large groups of people to pray for the same thing at the same time, leads me to think that God is like a lot of African "democracies": a pretend voting system that doesn't make any difference.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-19 01:05pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:Pope John Paul II changed the voting proceadure back in 1995 or 1996. It used to be that the cardininals would be locked up until they could finally get someone elected with at least 2/3 of the vote, no matter how long it took. Now if they haven't gotten the 2/3's vote by the end of one week then which canidate has a simple majority is the winner.

There's some fun backstory to that. When the cardinals had to choose a certain pope, they were behind closed doors for 33 months, instead of deliberating they spent that time partying and feasting and being generally lazy fucks (more than usual, I mean). Then the people got fed with them and locked them in. The cardinals panicked, and claimed that the Holy Spirit couldn't reach them to tell them the name of the new pope, because they were locked in. So the people gathered and made a hole in the roof.

After that the elections have been more or less fast.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-04-19 01:07pm

wautd wrote:I hope this time they chose a guy thats not completely alienated from the world. Someone who actually been to slums and saw poverty. Some kind of mother Theresa

Chances of that happening are offcourse non excisting

Oh no. One Mother Teresa was enough. She caused plenty of misery and suffering on her own without someone like her getting absolute power.

That NOS Guy · Post by **That NOS Guy** » 2005-04-19 02:26pm

Mayabird wrote: Oh no. One Mother Teresa was enough. She caused plenty of misery and suffering on her own without someone like her getting absolute power.

Please pardon my ignorance on the subject, but what exactly did she do wrong? I mean, gotta link or something to the whole story?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-19 02:50pm

That NOS Guy wrote:
Mayabird wrote: Oh no. One Mother Teresa was enough. She caused plenty of misery and suffering on her own without someone like her getting absolute power.
Please pardon my ignorance on the subject, but what exactly did she do wrong? I mean, gotta link or something to the whole story?

I think she sent all the charity money to the Church for hoarding instead of actually using it to help the needy. She only thought of the needy as a way of furthering her own (and Church's?) goals.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-04-19 05:17pm

Just as Slaribartfast said. She got the best medical treatment while her own nuns and the people she was supposed to be helping suffered.

For an expose: Mother Teresa's House of Illusions

All she is, is the triumph of good PR.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-04-19 06:41pm

I think Penn & Teller make that claim, I haven't seen the evidence for their claim myself though.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-04-19 07:34pm

Kurgan wrote:I think Penn & Teller make that claim, I haven't seen the evidence for their claim myself though.

But you have seen the evidence towards the claim that she was an altruistic, all-caring woman?

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