Clone trooper strength and production questions

Rommie2006 · Post by **Rommie2006** » 2005-04-19 10:41pm

I've always wondered,

How many clone troopers were created. Lama Su(spelling?) said that 250k "units" were ready with 1 million more "units" on the way. So how many troops is one "unit"? A single soldier, a battalation, an army?
Bear in the mind that the clone wars as an interstellar war involving thousands if not millions of planets.

If we combined our modern day earth forces from all the nations, could we amount to 1 million troops perhaps? So would not that mean that the Republic literally had BILLIONS of clone troopers if not TRILLIONS or more? How could 1 planet (kamino) produce enough clones to suffice the demand?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-19 10:42pm

We've gone over this before.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-04-19 11:01pm

I would do a search on clones, there should beseveral threads covering this in detail.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-04-20 09:38am

ROTS ICS says the droid army numbered in the quintillions, clones have to be in similar numbers to hope to win.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-04-20 09:50am

Technically, the storyboard states that the Clone Army on Geonosis had a ten to 1 numerically advantage, although its hard to see how that fit with the rest of the details.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-20 10:56am

PainRack wrote:Technically, the storyboard states that the Clone Army on Geonosis had a ten to 1 numerically advantage, although its hard to see how that fit with the rest of the details.

That doesn't jibe with what I saw on screen nor does it make sense, an entire droid army was finishing being constructed on Geonosis - it was implied that with that droid army alone they could bring the Republic to its knees, the Trade Federation leadership was there on Geonosis, Dooku was there - that demands security, how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-20 11:25am

Stravo wrote:how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?

They do have the advantage of being at least partially dug in.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-20 11:34am

NecronLord wrote:
Stravo wrote:how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?
They do have the advantage of being at least partially dug in.

The fact that they were running at each other and shooting into bodies of troops while tanks lumbered towarsd each other at a leaisurely pace says otherwise.

And you know what always bugged me about Geonosis?

No one saw a fleet that big coming.

A massive Republic Armada just happens to pop into Geonosis space, negotiates an asteroid field as thick as the one in Hoth and lands troops virtually unopposed and achieves instant air superiority. At a base where an army is being built and has been built for some time. A base where the leadership of the Separtist movement is meeting to decide to make the big plunge.

It always bugged me.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-20 11:41am

Hey, I was talking about logic, not what the film shows.

They could have just gone, say, around the rings.

Personally, I would have laughed my ass off if the Trade Fed Core ships had just fired up their 'multi-kiloton' guns and flattened the Clones approaching them.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-20 11:48am

NecronLord wrote:Personally, I would have laughed my ass off if the Trade Fed Core ships had just fired up their 'multi-kiloton' guns and flattened the Clones approaching them.

Oh hush, you might upset certain factions around here.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-04-20 11:50am

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:34 am Post subject:
NecronLord wrote:
Stravo wrote:
how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?

They do have the advantage of being at least partially dug in.

The fact that they were running at each other and shooting into bodies of troops while tanks lumbered towarsd each other at a leaisurely pace says otherwise.

And you know what always bugged me about Geonosis?

No one saw a fleet that big coming.

A massive Republic Armada just happens to pop into Geonosis space, negotiates an asteroid field as thick as the one in Hoth and lands troops virtually unopposed and achieves instant air superiority. At a base where an army is being built and has been built for some time. A base where the leadership of the Separtist movement is meeting to decide to make the big plunge.

It always bugged me.

Becuase the Separatists didn't know the Republic had an army. Easy. Dooku was quite clear: "it doesn't seem possible ... how could the Republic amass an army so quickly?" While of course he knows how, since he's a part of it, he's just saying what the other Separatists are thinking.

That doesn't jibe with what I saw on screen nor does it make sense, an entire droid army was finishing being constructed on Geonosis - it was implied that with that droid army alone they could bring the Republic to its knees, the Trade Federation leadership was there on Geonosis, Dooku was there - that demands security, how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?

It was never implied that just the droids being built on Geonosis could bring the Republic to its knees to my knowledge.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-20 11:55am

Vympel wrote:It was never implied that just the droids being built on Geonosis could bring the Republic to its knees to my knowledge.

Doesn't one of the CIS folks say somethign to the effect "With this new droid army you've constructed you will be unstoppable Count Dooku" or something to that effect.

Also where's the vaunted SW sensor tech? A polite beep to Dooku at the arena to tell him "Uh...Count...we have a Republic armada inbound."

Also no air defense at all where the leadership is meeting? Hell, where Dooku is standing. LAATs casually drop in on the arena and move about with utter impunity. The Acclamators drop in unopposed? We saw zero in terms of air defenses until they appraoch the front lines. Isn't the point of air defenses to extend beyond the front lines to help cover your troops?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-20 12:00pm

Stravo wrote:Doesn't one of the CIS folks say somethign to the effect "With this new droid army you've constructed you will be unstoppable Count Dooku" or something to that effect.

COUNT DOOKU: As I explained to you earlier, I'm quite convinced that ten thousand more systems will rally to our cause with your support, gentlemen. And let me remind you of our absolute commitment to capitalism... of the lower taxes, the reduced tariffs, and the eventual abolition of all trade barriers. Signing this treaty will bring you profits beyond your wildest imagination. What we are proposing is completely free trade. (looks at Nute) Our friends in the Trade Federation have pledged their support. When their Battle Droids are combined with yours, we shall have an army greater than anything in the galaxy, The Jedi will be overwhelmed. The Republic will agree to any demands
we make.

That's from the script, it got cut down significantly in the actual film, but "Their battle droids are combined with yours" bit remained.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-20 12:02pm

There's alos this bit that came from the movie:

POGGLE: With these new Battle Droids we've built for you,
Viceroy, you'll have the finest army in the galaxy.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-04-20 12:45pm

Yeah- that doesn't imply that it was just Geonosis doing the building. It fell to the Republic on the first day of the war (or first weeks, whatever). The war would've been a non-starter.

Also where's the vaunted SW sensor tech? A polite beep to Dooku at the arena to tell him "Uh...Count...we have a Republic armada inbound."

Also no air defense at all where the leadership is meeting? Hell, where Dooku is standing. LAATs casually drop in on the arena and move about with utter impunity. The Acclamators drop in unopposed? We saw zero in terms of air defenses until they appraoch the front lines. Isn't the point of air defenses to extend beyond the front lines to help cover your troops?

As I said, what do they need it for? The Republic has no military, as far as they know- they don't need air defenses and massive defensive emplacements to fight off an enemy army or fleet that doesn't exist. There were some defensive emplacements around where the ships were landed, but the army that came out to meet the Loyalists was fresh off the factory-line.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2005-04-20 05:51pm

When Dooku escapes we see some ships already in space, I thought there was a small battle happening the whole time mentioned somewhere.

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2005-04-20 06:06pm

Stravo wrote:A massive Republic Armada just happens to pop into Geonosis space, negotiates an asteroid field as thick as the one in Hoth and lands troops virtually unopposed and achieves instant air superiority.

Well it was just a thin planetary ring. They could just easily go over and / or under it.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-04-21 02:40am

Stravo wrote:That doesn't jibe with what I saw on screen nor does it make sense, an entire droid army was finishing being constructed on Geonosis - it was implied that with that droid army alone they could bring the Republic to its knees, the Trade Federation leadership was there on Geonosis, Dooku was there - that demands security, how the hell could they have been outnumbered by such a wide margin?

It was? Where?

I thought Geonosis was just one of many production facilites making the armies for the CIS

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-04-21 09:02am

Stravo wrote: The fact that they were running at each other and shooting into bodies of troops while tanks lumbered towarsd each other at a leaisurely pace says otherwise.

And you know what always bugged me about Geonosis?

No one saw a fleet that big coming.

A massive Republic Armada just happens to pop into Geonosis space, negotiates an asteroid field as thick as the one in Hoth and lands troops virtually unopposed and achieves instant air superiority. At a base where an army is being built and has been built for some time. A base where the leadership of the Separtist movement is meeting to decide to make the big plunge.

It always bugged me.

The large armada came in later. The "thousand of ships" seems to have referred to the LAAT, especially since Mace didn't make it to space.

Anyway, it appears that an initial strike force jumped in first, hit the planet running and rescued the Jedi, hit the installations and secured the assembly areas and then additional reinforcements turned up.

When Dooku escapes we see some ships already in space, I thought there was a small battle happening the whole time mentioned somewhere.

Yes. The ships were mostly transports though, so the Republic Accalamators were making mincemeat out of them, although Obiwan inbound run mentioned the presence of several TradeFed battleships.

Also no air defense at all where the leadership is meeting? Hell, where Dooku is standing. LAATs casually drop in on the arena and move about with utter impunity. The Acclamators drop in unopposed? We saw zero in terms of air defenses until they appraoch the front lines. Isn't the point of air defenses to extend beyond the front lines to help cover your troops?

Well, the arena was a gladitorial arena, its also possible that the Geonosians simply didn't have time to react to the LAAT strikes and jamming..........

Also, we do know that there were defence installations elsewhere, mentioned as being blasted in the novel..........

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-04-21 11:19am

NecronLord wrote:Personally, I would have laughed my ass off if the Trade Fed Core ships had just fired up their 'multi-kiloton' guns and flattened the Clones approaching them.

Bad juju when you're fighting in a theater where your own civilians are underground.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2005-04-21 11:30am

Ender wrote:ROTS ICS says the droid army numbered in the quintillions, clones have to be in similar numbers to hope to win.

Spoiler for ROTS?

I have read some parts of the script (or the novelization, not sure) where Palpatine states that the galactic population is of "uncounted quadrillions" or something like that. So, either
1) The quintillions figure counts an absurdly high number of seekers and similar small-sized drones.
2) ROTS ICS is contradicted by the novelization (higher canon if I am not mistaken).
3) My memory is faulty.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-21 11:49am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Bad juju when you're fighting in a theater where your own civilians are underground.

Not really. There were no apparent hives near the combat zone. In any case, after the clones put several kilotons of KE into the ground by crashing a core ship, the Trade Fed may as well have cut loose with the laser cannons, as most of the Geonosians nearby would be killed by such an event anyway. That aside, they could still use the guns on the SPHA-Ts on a dialled down setting and made their passage into space easier.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-04-21 12:24pm

ROTS ICS is contradicted by the novelization (higher canon if I am not mistaken).

It´s all C-canon, as far as I can tell. Question is, which source to trust... What does the novelization say?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-04-21 02:10pm

Meest wrote:When Dooku escapes we see some ships already in space, I thought there was a small battle happening the whole time mentioned somewhere.

According to the AOTC novel, "thousands" of Republic ships were attacking the CIS fleet

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-04-21 05:45pm

The 1 unit = 1 clone was affirmed in Labrynth of Evil (yes sucky I know), but it also refered to 'thousands' of worlds falling and it tells of non-clone soldiers (during the attack of Coruscant) so ... *shrug*

I believe, but have not yet confirmed, that Mace in Shatterpoint muses that 1.2 million clones is barely enough to garrison one world, let alone fight a war accross the galaxy though.

I can't remember the AotC novelisation on the subject though.