[Adama] The Colonial Viper rips the wires out of a tie fight

Adama · Post by **Adama** » 2005-04-23 05:50pm

1) Relative velocity.

Yes and that works both ways. Imagine your on the motorway traveling north and the traffic on the opposite lane is traveling south. You would pass each other very quickly.
But even when the ties were flying towards the SSD and the SSD was either moving towards them or stationary, it still took many seconds to clear the hull. So I have yet to see this great speed. But it is very easy to put some zeros down on a page of a book, and not know how this actually plays out in the real world. No human can fly at such great speeds, simply because our reaction times are too slow. There is a fact you can't escape, unless your books author has begun removing zeros from the characters reaction times?

Imagine how fast one must be moving in order to cross something the size of Jupiter in under five minutes. And after that, decelerate to something equivilant to a stopped position without using the main aft engines.

You would be pulling some pretty heavy gs, no doubt. But 1000's? I'm not so sure.

Addendum: This is a fairly inauspicious beginning to Adana's stay on SDN. Hopefully he'll shape up, or it will be a short stay at that.

shape up? You need to lighten up buddy. Now go for a walk or somthing to clear you head.
_________________

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2005-04-23 05:54pm

Wasn't I just in OSF? I was wondering what that few seconds of freefall followed by a giant splash and five gravities' acceleration was about...

AND DIDN'T I START A THREAD ON THIS VERY SUBJECT NOT MORE THAN A WEEK AGO!!!?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-04-23 05:54pm

Adama wrote: You would be pulling some pretty heavy gs, no doubt. But 1000's? I'm not so sure.

Some very capable people have run the math. Have you?

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-04-23 05:55pm

Adama wrote:But even when the ties were flying towards the SSD and the SSD was either moving towards them or stationary, it still took many seconds to clear the hull. So I have yet to see this great speed. But it is very easy to put some zeros down on a page of a book, and not know how this actually plays out in the real world. No human can fly at such great speeds, simply because our reaction times are too slow. There is a fact you can't escape, unless your books author has begun removing zeros from the characters reaction times?

Yeah, a fighter taking a few seconds to travel over 17 kilometers. They must be slow.

You would be pulling some pretty heavy gs, no doubt. But 1000's? I'm not so sure.

We require more evidence for an argument besides "I don't think that's true."

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-04-23 05:56pm

Adama wrote:Shite from a book is worthless in my opinion. The author just puts down a large number and then wows himself into a frenzy, big deal

You opinion in this matter is irrelevant. Under George Lucas' own canon policy, the ICS books *ARE* canon. If you think they're shit then that's just too fucking bad. Further, I seem to recall that most of those large numbers are based upon analysis of scenes from the movies, so if you don't like how big those numbers are, again, too fucking bad.

Adama wrote:Films are fact. Don't like it? Then go write a book and add some extra zeros to the already wild numbers floating out there.

So are books. Oh, you don't like how big the numbers are? Can you hear the sound of us not caring?

Pull your head out of your ass fucktard or you won't be here long.

Adama · Post by **Adama** » 2005-04-23 05:58pm

Vipers need launch tubes to leave their carrier (Battlestar). Ties do not. Vader and his pilots departed from the Tie hangars located on the Equatorial Trench and reached the exhaust port trench in the upper hemisphere in a matter of seconds. Vader got his pilots to the ships, and they were hitting Gold Flight in less than a minute! This doesn't even take into account the pilots entering their ships, checking systems, and taking off!
This indicates good acceleration. In fact, great accleration. Fuck, man. They had to go screaming across the DS1 to reach the battlescene, which they arrived at in a matter of seconds.
You've already earned this thread a place in HoS, Adama. I hope you'll improve, or else you may become the next Assassin X.

I never once heard any reference as to where the ties were launched from. Where did you hear that?

I always assumed that the ties were launched from the nearest bay to fight scene. A station that large must be filled with such bays, so I'm not surprised the ties got into the fight so quickly.

Your a Padawan Learner so stop giving me the high and mighty act.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-23 06:01pm

We're fair to be high and mighty when you're acting like such a God damn subjective retard.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-04-23 06:03pm

Adama wrote:I never once heard any reference as to where the ties were launched from. Where did you hear that?

I always assumed that the ties were launched from the nearest bay to fight scene. A station that large must be filled with such bays, so I'm not surprised the ties got into the fight so quickly.

Your a Padawan Learner so stop giving me the high and mighty act.

We know they launched from the equator because that's where the goddamn fighter bays are located. If you'd pull your head out of your ass and realize that we have accessed information that you have ignored you'd realize where we get this stuff from. (here's a BIG hint: it's those books you called shit)

As for our forum ranks, so the fuck what? Rank is irrelevant here, you put or shut up. So... put up motherfucker.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-04-23 06:04pm

Adama wrote:Your a Padawan Learner so stop giving me the high and mighty act.

And you're a redshirt. At least padawans serve a purpose beyond ablative armor for Kirk and Spock.

Your list of offenses is piling up here.
1) Blatant disregard for canon
2) Making claims with no evidence to back it up
3) Trying to refute arguments on the basis of you not liking them
4) Calling the kettle black
5) General asshattery

Adama · Post by **Adama** » 2005-04-23 06:04pm

Some very capable people have run the math. Have you?

If I had some reliable figures from the movie, then yes, I could run through the "complicated" calcs no probs.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-04-23 06:08pm

Adama wrote:If I had some reliable figures from the movie, then yes, I could run through the "complicated" calcs no probs.

Here's some advice: Don't make threads like these until you've done said calculations. You'll look less stupid that way.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-04-23 06:09pm

Adama wrote:Your a Padawan Learner so stop giving me the high and mighty act.

Titles here count for nothing, the content of your posts count for everything.

Word to the wise...

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2005-04-23 06:15pm

You would be pulling some pretty heavy gs, no doubt. But 1000's? I'm not so sure.

Hundreds, actually. But his analogy was too simplistic.

Instead, try imaging covering twice the diameter of Jupiter and then decelerating to a virtual standstill next to an orbiting body. You're talking at least 1100 to g's here.

I can't factor in the orbital mechanics here since the fighters were moving at well beyond Yavin's escape velocity and I don't know the geometry of their trajectory to get to the Death Star.

Adama · Post by **Adama** » 2005-04-23 06:18pm

You opinion in this matter is irrelevant. Under George Lucas' own canon policy, the ICS books *ARE* canon. If you think they're shit then that's just too fucking bad. Further, I seem to recall that most of those large numbers are based upon analysis of scenes from the movies, so if you don't like how big those numbers are, again, too fucking bad.

George Lucas knows shit all about gs and you know it, we all know it. Thats why he modelled some tie fighter scenes on ww2 fighter footage ffs. BUT, since these scenes are in the movie, then they are fact.
Human reaction times will give you your tie speed. Humans simply cannot move that fast and still be in control of a tie thats pulling 1000's of gs during a dog fight. Impossible.

Pull your head out of your ass fucktard or you won't be here long.

Spartan, cool name, shame about you though. Whats a fucktard?

There seems to be a general level of hostility on this thread. Shall I stop posting on the subject to ease your pain?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-23 06:19pm

You can start by quit being such a God damn retard.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-04-23 06:21pm

We're hostile because you're acting like an idiot. You wouldn't be so surprised if you read the rules to the board.

By all means, keep posting. The admins need time to power up their death rays.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-04-23 06:25pm

Adama wrote:George Lucas knows shit all about gs and you know it, we all know it. Thats why he modelled some tie fighter scenes on ww2 fighter footage ffs. BUT, since these scenes are in the movie, then they are fact.
Human reaction times will give you your tie speed. Humans simply cannot move that fast and still be in control of a tie thats pulling 1000's of gs during a dog fight. Impossible.

Again we come to that whole irrelevancy thing. What George Lucas knows about g's doesn't matter. It's called Suspension of Disbelief. We know that TIEs can pull an extreme amount of g's, it's in the goddamn ICS, which, as I've pointed out, is canon whether you like it or not. How they do it is irrelevant. They can, end of discussion.

Adama wrote:Spartan, cool name, shame about you though. Whats a fucktard?

Blow me. BTW, fucktard is a contraction of "fucking retard."

Adama wrote:There seems to be a general level of hostility on this thread. Shall I stop posting on the subject to ease your pain?

No, please continue. We'd love to have some laughs before you get yourself titled or banned for your rather extreme level of asshattery.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2005-04-23 06:26pm

Adama wrote: Human reaction times will give you your tie speed. Humans simply cannot move that fast and still be in control of a tie thats pulling 1000's of gs during a dog fight. Impossible.

That's what computers are for.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-04-23 06:28pm

Hardy wrote:
Adama wrote: Human reaction times will give you your tie speed. Humans simply cannot move that fast and still be in control of a tie thats pulling 1000's of gs during a dog fight. Impossible.
That's what computers are for.

Inertial dampers too. I had almost forgotten about those.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-04-23 06:31pm

Adama wrote:George Lucas knows shit all about gs and you know it, we all know it. Thats why he modelled some tie fighter scenes on ww2 fighter footage ffs. BUT, since these scenes are in the movie, then they are fact.

And? What's your point? We observe other instances in which starfighters accelerate at hundreds or even thousands of g's. When have we seen a Viper do this?

Human reaction times will give you your tie speed. Humans simply cannot move that fast and still be in control of a tie thats pulling 1000's of gs during a dog fight. Impossible.

That's why SW cockpits are advanced enough to be able to magnify things and shrink distances to allow pilots to respond adequately, as written about in the AotC novelization which Lucas directly oversaw the writing of.

Spartan, cool name, shame about you though. Whats a fucktard?

A fucker who is also retarded (aka. you).

There seems to be a general level of hostility on this thread. Shall I stop posting on the subject to ease your pain?

If that's the only way you can suspend your stupidity. I suggest you read the Terms of Service, again, or you'll find yourself the next entry in our Big Book of Banned members.

Adama · Post by **Adama** » 2005-04-23 06:31pm

ok, so when I see a tie fighter with a pilot inside who is fighting for his very life, pulling the same gs as a ww2 spitfire, when apparently he can do so much more because a book said so, i'm supposed to ignore what my eyes are showing me? FFS people, we all know Lucas made the ties as we saw them in the movies because he modelled them on ww2 planes. He intended them to be that way. Then some nerd who can't accept this comes along and writes a book and while he writes the book he adds a few more zeroes to all the figures because they look cooler and more impressive. Total BS. Unless its on the movie I will not accept it. Show me some footage and I will believe.

Last on that point.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-04-23 06:36pm

Adama wrote:ok, so when I see a tie fighter with a pilot inside who is fighting for his very life, pulling the same gs as a ww2 spitfire, when apparently he can do so much more because a book said so, i'm supposed to ignore what my eyes are showing me?

You are an UTTER retard. Showing that a capability is not ALWAYS in use does not mean that it is not available. If I showed you a picture of a 747 sitting on a runway, would you conclude that it could not fly because it wasn't flying in that picture?

FFS people, we all know Lucas made the ties as we saw them in the movies because he modelled them on ww2 planes. He intended them to be that way. Then some nerd who can't accept this comes along and writes a book and while he writes the book he adds a few more zeroes to all the figures because they look cooler and more impressive. Total BS. Unless its on the movie I will not accept it.

It IS in the movies, you fucking retard. Numerous instances requiring hundreds or even thousands of g's of acceleration have already been pointed out to you, and you responded to them (rather predictably) by focusing on a SINGLE example and then claiming you didn't believe it.

Show me some footage and I will believe.

When asked for evidence, you simply said "watch the movies," and when given specific examples of ships and instances which would have required thousands of g's of linear acceleration you... ask for footage. Another hint from a supermod: We don't take kindly to hypocritical morons, here.

Last on that point.

Good.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2005-04-23 06:39pm

Adama wrote:ok, so when I see a tie fighter with a pilot inside who is fighting for his very life, pulling the same gs as a ww2 spitfire, when apparently he can do so much more because a book said so, i'm supposed to ignore what my eyes are showing me? FFS people, we all know Lucas made the ties as we saw them in the movies because he modelled them on ww2 planes. He intended them to be that way.

Appealing to the author's intent is not a valid form of argument on this site.

Then some nerd who can't accept this comes along and writes a book and while he writes the book he adds a few more zeroes to all the figures because they look cooler and more impressive.

No. One of the authors of the ICS books based his work off of an extensive analysis of the canon.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-04-23 06:42pm

Adama wrote:ok, so when I see a tie fighter with a pilot inside who is fighting for his very life, pulling the same gs as a ww2 spitfire, when apparently he can do so much more because a book said so, i'm supposed to ignore what my eyes are showing me?

Right, and on screen the DS was 160 KM according to your eyes?

Poor appeal to style over substance.

FFS people, we all know Lucas made the ties as we saw them in the movies because he modelled them on ww2 planes. He intended them to be that way. Then some nerd who can't accept this comes along and writes a book and while he writes the book he adds a few more zeroes to all the figures because they look cooler and more impressive. Total BS. Unless its on the movie I will not accept it. Show me some footage and I will believe.

Right, because Author's intent clearly is a objective way of noting how analysis works.

Gotcha, you keep yabbering and an admin will visit you shortly.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-04-23 06:42pm

Adama wrote:snip bullfuckery

Evidently your fucking blind. Jesus Fucking Christ do you need to have examples of high g's pointed out to you again?

The Millenium Falcon reaching space from Tatooine in less than a minute.
The Rebel fighters rounding Yavin in just minutes.
The TIE fighters reaching from the equator to near the pole of the DS1 in about a minute.
Luke's Xwing reaching space from the surface of Hoth in less than a minute.
The Imperial fleet rounding Endor and stopping in, what was it 3 seconds? in ROTJ.

And that's just shit off of the top of my head.