Family Names: Inherently Sexist?

[Shinova]

My beef with the system is that the belief that, "OMG there's no son! The family's OVER!!!11!1!!1!!1"

It's still going. The essence of what the family is, the genetics, is still passed on through the daughters as well as the sons. So there's that often huge pressure on guys to, "OMG j00 better start getting married now!!!111!1!!!1" just so the family name could be carried on.


Geez, it's just a name, for crying out loud.


This is why I kinda dislike family names. It's one-sided thinking, and in modern days it's easier to keep records of family lines of descent, so you almost don't need those family names anymore, at least not in sufficiently developed countries.

[Darth Servo]

My beef with the system is that the belief that, "OMG there's no son! The family's OVER!!!11!1!!1!!1"

One friend of mine was so relieved that they had finally had a son to carry on the family name. The thing is, the family name was "Smith"

[Broomstick]

Since my family, at least on my father's side, didn't even have a surname until they immigrated to the US in 1900, the whole "carry on the name" thing has been a bit of a puzzle to me. I mean, yes, I hyphenated my name when I married, but that's because the name had become meaningful to me after living with it for 25 years, and also because I was working freelance at the time and relying on word of mouth and reputation for work - under such circumstances changing your name is like wiping out your work history. But the whole "family line" thing... well, it just didn't exist in half my heritage.

When I tell people this I get shocked looks - my GOD you didn't have a surname???? Well, no - and it wasn't that uncommon at the time, and there are still folks to whom such circumstances apply today (like the Icelanders). No big deal, really. Maybe if I looked exotic folks would be more accepting. In some ways, they seem more disturbed that this applies to a "white bread" looking American than at the shocking lack of surname.

I'm old enough to remember when the name hyphenation and keeping of maiden names became more common and accepted - at the time it was noted that it seemed more acceptable for, say, hispanic women to hyphenate than white women. Or for Chinese women to keep their maiden name than for white women to do so. The "exotics" (some of whose families had been in the US far longer than mine) were "excused" for having odd or foreign customs, the white women were expect to toe the line on convention, however.

I will also state that there has been a noticable rise in acceptance of the changing customs in the last 20 years or so in the US. Even those who really don't like the custom seem more accepting that a woman might have career reasons for keeping her birth name. They may make a snarky comment about you keeping the name for money, but apparently will tolerate "greed" as an excuse. Or whatever it is that goes through their head. Admittedly, that's based on my own observations and thus may be biased, but I have lived as a woman in 5 different states (Missiouri, Michigan, West Virginia, Illinois, and Indiana) and I travel frequently both in heavily urban areas and in rural locations so I feel I've encountered a diverse variety of people over the years.

[Lord Zentei]

Icelandic system:

The father's (occationally and/or mother's) last name with "-son" or "-dóttir" added to the end. My father's name is Jón, so I'm Jónsson. I could also claim to be Inguson.

The wife never takes the husband's last name nor does the husband ever take the wife's last name: it wouldn't make sense, since it really means "son of <fill in blank>" or "daughter of <fill in blank>". Technically it isn't really a name per se.

Apparently, this system was more widespread in Scandinavia a century or two ago. Were the only ones who keep to the old ways.

My kingdom for an Edit button.

The Father's (and/or mother's) FIRST name.

Gah. How many times have I made such simple gaffes this week? I must start using the Preview button more.

[LadyTevar]

Apparently, this system was more widespread in Scandinavia a century or two ago. Were the only ones who keep to the old ways.

The patrynomic was one of the lingering customs of the Vikings, and only in the 1800s did Scandinavian families begin to drop them. Iceland started as a Viking colony and even in the early 1900s was fairly isolated, so the custom continues. I don't see it changing anytime soon, it's Tradition and something that makes Icelanders unique in the world today.

Some SCA people I know have done a lot of research on Viking naming customs... iirc Jònsson would be Jòn's second son, because of the double s. I could be mis-remembering, however

[Terr Fangbite]

Historically with aristocrats, the most important family kept the family name. Thus if the woman's family was more powerful than the man's, the woman's family name would be used.

Anyway I think the current system works just fine. I know people who hyphenate, who take the mans or takes the woman's name. I don't know anyone who kept their own names though. Its all about choice really. If the name sounds great hyphenated, do it. If not, sit down and spend a dinner discussing it. You'd expect that people can be half-matured when they decide marriage is for them.

[Kuroneko]

I wonder how often Russians really use the habit of addressing someone by both their first name and patronymic (which it seems Russians are always doing when they appear in novels).
"So tell me Yevgeny Mikhailovich..."
"Arkady Grigorovich, my old friend..."
"I tell you Sergei Ivanovich..."
etc. etc.
Do they really do this, or is it just a literary affectation?

Absolutely. Russian culture has a fairly strict notion of formality and familiarity; although not nearly as strict, say, Japanese, it is still much more so that that of the Americans. It's really a progression of formality. Let's take the name "Nataliya Ivanovna Gagarina" as an example:
(Most formal) "Gospozha [Madam] Gagarina"
(Official capacity) "Tovarisch [Comrade] Gagarina"
(Strictly subordinate position, e.g., professor to student) "Gagarina"
(Friendly acquaintance, co-worker, or if friendly towards subordinate) "Nataliya Ivanovna"
(Friend) "Nataliya" or "Natasha"
(Friend, in casual context) "Ivanovna"

[Lord Zentei]

Apparently, this system was more widespread in Scandinavia a century or two ago. Were the only ones who keep to the old ways.

The patrynomic was one of the lingering customs of the Vikings, and only in the 1800s did Scandinavian families begin to drop them. Iceland started as a Viking colony and even in the early 1900s was fairly isolated, so the custom continues. I don't see it changing anytime soon, it's Tradition and something that makes Icelanders unique in the world today.

Some SCA people I know have done a lot of research on Viking naming customs... iirc Jònsson would be Jòn's second son, because of the double s. I could be mis-remembering, however

You are. The first 's' is attached to the name Jón as in "Jón's" but w/o the apostrophe.

Thus, it is Jóns son => Jónsson.

[LadyTevar]

Some SCA people I know have done a lot of research on Viking naming customs... iirc Jònsson would be Jòn's second son, because of the double s. I could be mis-remembering, however

You are. The first 's' is attached to the name Jón as in "Jón's" but w/o the apostrophe.
Thus, it is Jóns son => Jónsson.

Yeah... I got straightened out this weekend, talking to a couple of Vikings at the event

[Lord Zentei]

Some SCA people I know have done a lot of research on Viking naming customs... iirc Jònsson would be Jòn's second son, because of the double s. I could be mis-remembering, however

You are. The first 's' is attached to the name Jón as in "Jón's" but w/o the apostrophe.
Thus, it is Jóns son => Jónsson.

Yeah... I got straightened out this weekend, talking to a couple of Vikings at the event

It would be pretty akward after a half dozen sons oe so:

My name is Egill Jónsssssson.