New Zelda GCN Images and Info...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-04-23 12:12am

It seems to me that the console games have a continuity and the handheld games are "spinoffs" and not part of the continuity. Just IMO.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-23 12:39am

Meh, it's not the most out-there theory. I don't personally hold it, though.

Then again, I also think that the Rito from TWW emerged from the Gerudo when the flooding occured...

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-04-23 08:22am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Then again, I also think that the Ruto from TWW emerged from the Gerudo when the flooding occured...

Didn't that Zora sage say she was related to Medli, who was a Rito? How does that work if they came from the Gerudo?

Also, this isn't confirmed to be a direct sequel to tWW. It has been said to follow chronologically, yes, but so does aLttP.

DarkSilver wrote:*snippage*

Ever since then, every Link has had the Triforce mark, we just don't see it ingame. Until now that is.

We saw it in tWW, and there has to be reason to why it didn't show up until the final showdown. In OoT, Ganondorf made an extremely similar mark show up on his hand, when he demanded Link and Zelda to give him their pieces, and when he transformed into Ganon. So, apart from AoL (which was a birthmark and not a glowing gold thing anyway IIRC), that mark only seems to show itself when the three Triforces are close to each other. Or seemed...

And Link in tWW didn't have the Triforce of Courage anymore, after the King's wish, nor did he have a mark. So a mark on his hand in this game should actually indicate that this is, in fact, not that Link. Unless this is the start of a trend of birthmarks that shows up at the hero's 16th birthday, that is.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-23 10:46am

It was said that the game follows TWW directly. Aonuma said so.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-04-24 06:07pm

The Rito are the descendants of the Zora. Medli's dress, which has the Zora emblem on it, is proof enough.

Anyway, here's what I know for certain about the Zelda chronology:

Despite becoming Ganon, Ganondorf apparently regains his Gerudo form after being sealed away (OoT)
During the Imprisoning War, Ganondorf stole the Triforce and was sealed away in the Dark World (LttP, OoT)
Until OoT, no one had set foot in the Sacred Realm since it was sealed away (OoT)
The Kokiri do not age, looking like Hylian children all their lives (OoT)
The Great Deku tree is the guardian of the Forest (OoT)
Jabu-Jabu is the guardian diety of the Zora (OoT)
MM takes place 6 months after the end of OoT (MM)
Hyrule was not the only world created by the Three (MM)
LttP takes place 3 or 4 generations after the Imprisoning War (LttP)
Whenever Hyrule is threatened, a Hero appears (LttP)
The Dark World cannot exist without Ganon (LttP)
In LttP Ganon is still sealed within the Dark World (LttP)
After OoT and before the end of LttP, the three pieces of the Triforce reunited (LttP)
The Dark World changes your form to reflect your heart (LttP)
After LttP, Ganon returns to steal the Triforce of Power (LoZ)
Ganon can control puppets despite being sealed away (LttP)
Despite the destruction of the Dark World in LttP, Ganon remains Ganon (LoZ)
Before Ganon's return, the Triforce was split again (LoZ, AoL)
After LoZ, Link has to recover the Triforce of Courage (AoL)
A Gerudo king named Ganondorf finds Ganon's trident, becoming Ganon (FSA)
At one point, Ganon was sealed away by the Four Sword (FSA)
There was a time when the people of Hyrule had completely forgotten that Ganon existed (FSA)
Twinrova apparently returned to make good on her promise to haunt the Hero (OoS/A)
The Koroks once looked like Hylians (WW)
The Great Deku tree watches over the Koroks (WW)
The Rito do not fly naturally (WW)
The Rito use the old Zora emblem (WW)
The Gorons of the Great Sea can live their entire lives without meeting another Goron (WW)
WW only mentions the Hero of Time in its backstory (WW)
Not everyone in the Great Sea has pointy ears (WW)
The people of the Great Sea don't know that they're the descendants of Hyrule (WW)
Jabun resembles Jabu-Jabu and speaks Hylian, but is not the guardian of the Rito (WW)
The Three sank Hyrule (WW)
In WW Ganondorf is in his Gerudo form (WW)
Ganondorf is sealed in stone by the Hero of Wind (WW)

Feel free to add/correct/clarify anything.

From items 2, 3 and 7, we know that OoT and MM are the earliest events in the legend. Item 29 suggests that WW is after MM. Items 9 and 31 contradict this, though, since it's impossible for the Hylians to forget that they were once the people of Hyrule and then remember that fact within the span of a few generations. Items 4-6 and 24-27 also appear to contradict 29, since the conclusion from them is that between OoT and WW, the Kokiri and Zora dramatically changed their appearances. 26 and 33 can be used to argue for WW following MM, since if the Rito gain their wings through magic, then it's possible that the Three wiped the memory of Hyrule from the minds of the people. Items 1 and 34 also support WW coming after MM, since he regains his Gerudo form. On the other hand, if WW does take place before LttP, then number 12 is impossible if 34 really happened.

Anyway, the point of that long rant is that while WW taking place before LttP is possible, I don't think it's the best explanation. My guess is that WW actually takes place long after everything else in a post-apocalyptic world.

We know that MM follows OoT, and it's generally accepted that after LttP we have LoZ and AoL (IIRC, LA can fit practically anywhere). Now, items 20-22 suggests that FS, FSA and—unless I'm growing senile and I'm wrong about Vaati—Minish Cap taking place way the fuck after AoL. I don't know anything about the Oracle duology though, so I can't say anything about that.

OoT/MM
LttP
LoZ/AoL
FS/FSA/MC
WW/"WW2"

With OoS/A and LA going somewhere. I've toyed with the idea of LA coming after WW, since the end of WW does lead nicely into the start of LA with Link sailing off in his boat.

...Wow, that's the longest post I've ever made.

Post by **The Wookiee** » 2005-04-24 07:51pm

Yosh, didn't know if you missed this or not but WW showed that the Zora and the Rito are indeed related when you begin the Medli portion of the Master Sword quests.

DarkSilver · Post by **DarkSilver** » 2005-04-24 08:02pm

didnt we go through almost this exact conversation around the GDC when the new trailer was revealed?

But anyway, yeah, the Triforce marks on the hands show who the Triforce holders are / who they are destined to be.

It's the reason LoZ/AoL Link had the Triforce mark appear on his 16th Birthday, he was destined to find the Triforce of Courage. Gannondorf, who held the Triforce of Power, had the mark appear on his hand, to show he was a Triforce holder, going by this, it means that Zelda and every Zelda after her, would have a Triforce mark on her as well, since they are destined to hold the Triforce of Wisdom.

Perhaps it just happened that WW Link didn't have the mark, because he was to young to actually possess the Triforce yet, since the marks only appeared after the 16th birthday (AoL manual)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-24 09:51pm

TWW taking place after LoZ/AoL just seems absurd to me. From what I can tell, it makes the most sense to have it between MM and LttP. And of course to have LA take place immediately after LttP.

I've seen nothing to convince me to abandon my current understanding of the timeline, because it's completely possible to fit everything in as such, without having to haphazardly bend over backwards trying to get everything like piddly details or oversighted misinterpretations to to line up into a convolted mess.

Dalton: Explain, precisely.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-04-24 10:05pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Dalton: Explain, precisely.

When you complete the Earth Dungeon the soul of the Sage of Earth appears to help Medli power up your sword. That sage is a Zora, and since Medli is the reincarnation of that Sage the Rito therefore should be descendants of the Zora. Same deal with Makar and the Kokiri.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-24 10:09pm

Okay, that makes sense, except the whole fish-people to bird-people thing.

I suppose then the Gerudo were just destroyed before/during the flood between MM and TWW. Pitty, I was hoping a possible connection with the Rito could have spared them...

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-04-24 11:35pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Okay, that makes sense, except the whole fish-people to bird-people thing.

Especially since they live on a fucking ocean.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I suppose then the Gerudo were just destroyed before/during the flood between MM and TWW. Pitty, I was hoping a possible connection with the Rito could have spared them...

Perhaps they interbred with the Hylians?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-24 11:46pm

Maybe, but going with my now-void idea of the Rito being an offshoot of the Gerudo, I was originally thinking that perhaps after the Imprisoning War, the Hylians might have started persecuting the Gerudo, due to the fact that Ganon was one of them. Then when TWW flood comes along, those remaining that weren't killed by the Hylians either somehow fled to other lands (a very small amount) and/or developed/were shown a sign of grace by the Goddesses and transformed into the Rito as a last chance to survive.

But that's all moot now...

So I suppose they were exterminated by the Hylians, fled to other lands, or interbred with the Hylians. Or a combination of two or all of the above.

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2005-04-24 11:57pm

Don't the Zora survive until the end of the chronology? The fish-creatures that shoot you from the water in LoZ and AoL are Zora, right? So the line of Zora that eventually becomes the Rito could simply be a portion of the population, with the rest remaining as aquatic life, right?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-25 12:00am

Yeah, specifically those are fresh-water Zora, IIRC, while the earlier ones were exclusively salt-water Zora.

Mopeyennuui · Post by **Mopeyennuui** » 2005-04-25 04:41am

"One important thing about Link that we can only notice with his farmer costume: He has the Triforce mark on his left hand. AOL anyone?"

I wont' buy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-25 04:46am

What?

DarkSilver · Post by **DarkSilver** » 2005-04-25 04:49am

Zerg Goddess wrote:"One important thing about Link that we can only notice with his farmer costume: He has the Triforce mark on his left hand. AOL anyone?"

I wont' buy.

erm.....can you clarify that please? Cause as it stands, I have no clue what the fuck your talking about......

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-04-25 05:10am

DarkSilver wrote:
Zerg Goddess wrote:"One important thing about Link that we can only notice with his farmer costume: He has the Triforce mark on his left hand. AOL anyone?"

I wont' buy.
erm.....can you clarify that please? Cause as it stands, I have no clue what the fuck your talking about......

Yeah, that seems to be Zerg Goddess' shtick.

Mopeyennuui · Post by **Mopeyennuui** » 2005-04-25 08:19am

One important thing about Link that we can only notice with his farmer costume: He has the Triforce mark on his left hand. AOL anyone?" /

Uhh.. I'm boycotting this title because of that.....l

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-04-25 08:29am

What the fuck is he talking about?

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2005-04-25 08:51am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Link is left-handed. The mark *should* turn up there.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-25 10:08am

Zerg Goddess, you're a fucking idiot.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2005-04-25 11:00am

From what I understand AoL is the last in the timeline, and is the final defeat of Ganon, all other Zelda games(atleast those with Ganon in them) must take place before it then.

Also it is possible that instead of all zora changing into rito there was a split, some became peaceful, avian, and civilized, the others become more aggresive and less civil.

And I agree with Spanky on WW being before the events in LTTP

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-04-25 12:17pm

Dalton wrote:Perhaps they interbred with the Hylians?

There is a gossip stone somewhere in OoT that says that the Gerudo sometimes go to the Market Town to find boyfriends.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:It was said that the game follows TWW directly. Aonuma said so.

Really? I must have missed it. Do you have a quote or link?

Update:
Apparently, there is some new information in about the game. Read it over at ZeldaUniverse. Aonuma now says he isn't so sure if this game takes place after tWW, after all.
Possible spoilers ahead: And Link supposedly does not come from Hyrule but that village, Taoru, which is outside of Hyrule. Guess Zerg Goddess wasn't that far off with the comment about AoL, after all (which isn't a reason to not buy this game; I liked AoL, damnit!)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-25 04:34pm

Well, Link in LoZ and AoL was technically from outside of Hyrule as well (and for the record, that doesn't come from the Valient comics; it's part of the backstory to LoZ, those American comics just gave Link's homeland a name).

And I STILL can't understand what the FUCK Zerg Goddess is actually saying. Unless she gets her retard ass back in here and constructs a few sentenses that are actually coherent for a change, I'm just going to dismiss her garbled bitching as nonsense...