Firefly - Can I expect more?

[RedImperator]

And no, it's not Cantoness. It's Mandarin. Badly pronounced mandrain , by today's standard, but Mandrain none the less.

You could probably rationalize pronunciation issues as changes in the language over the years.

It's interesting that English is the standard language for general communication but expressions of strong emotion and excitement are usually in Chinese. I'm not sure what that says as far as the blending of the cultures, though.

-- Joe Momma

I think in one of the commentaries, Joss mentioned that there are people who speak Chinese primarily and only use English for curses. There were a few times in the series when one character would conduct a conversation mostly in Mandarin with some extra.

[Petrosjko]

Obviously to communicate to the audience the primary language would have to be English, but I believe what he was trying to demonstrate was that the languages have become virtually interchangeable at this point in the storyline.

[Stravo]

Frankly the far more believable language option would have been English/Spanish being used interchangabley when you consider that the fastest growing minority in the US are hispanics and it is far more likely of a US hegemon in the Americas than an American/Chinese one.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Frankly the far more believable language option would have been English/Spanish being used interchangabley when you consider that the fastest growing minority in the US are hispanics and it is far more likely of a US hegemon in the Americas than an American/Chinese one.

The Chinese nation is growing rapidly, while the Spanish language may be more prevalent in the US, they don't have a fuck off huge nation supporting their language on the whole. China is large, powerful (getting there anyway) and has plenty of speakers, so it's not a leap to see it overwhelm Spanish which is mostly spoken by immigrants in the States anyway. Massive nation full of resources > immigrants.

[Stravo]

Frankly the far more believable language option would have been English/Spanish being used interchangabley when you consider that the fastest growing minority in the US are hispanics and it is far more likely of a US hegemon in the Americas than an American/Chinese one.

The Chinese nation is growing rapidly, while the Spanish language may be more prevalent in the US, they don't have a fuck off huge nation supporting their language on the whole. China is large, powerful (getting there anyway) and has plenty of speakers, so it's not a leap to see it overwhelm Spanish which is mostly spoken by immigrants in the States anyway. Massive nation full of resources > immigrants.

Is it more believable to see a Canadian/American/Mexican Alliance becoming one nation or the US/China becoming one nation? When I talk about American hegemon in the Americas I mean Mexicon and other South American nations being absorbed into the US spehere of influence as states or some such.

I don't see that happening with China in any foreseeable scenario.

EDIT: IN the often overlooked series TimeTrax the future US is comprised of such an alliance and the hero is a "blanco" a minirity because he is white in a predominately brown America.

[Elheru Aran]

Well, this is (IIRC) Joss Whedon, the guy who came up with *two* series involving vampires, demons and magic. Somehow, I don't think he's too seriously concerned with realistic scenarios, just more or less plausible ones...

[Elheru Aran]

Well, this is (IIRC) Joss Whedon, the guy who came up with *two* series involving vampires, demons and magic. Somehow, I don't think he's too seriously concerned with realistic scenarios, just more or less plausible ones...

EDIT: Not that I'm implying that he considers vampires, demons and magic to be plausible. My point is that he probably simply saw a Chinese/American alliance as slightly plausible, and either didn't consider or thought a Canadian/American/Mexican/alternative alliance wouldn't work.

[Galvatron]

Doesn't it seem more likely that the US and China were merely the survivors of whatever cataclysm befell "Earth that was?"

[Petrosjko]

Doesn't it seem more likely that the US and China were merely the survivors of whatever cataclysm befell "Earth that was?"

Londinium is one of what I believe are two capital worlds, IIRC. Make of that particular name what you will.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Doesn't it seem more likely that the US and China were merely the survivors of whatever cataclysm befell "Earth that was?"

I was thinking just that.

Maybe they were the only two civilizations that had teh resources to escape when Earth blew up or whatever happened to it.

Which is another mystery i'd love to know, what the hell happened to Earth That Was?

[Diamedes]

Horses breed more more horses. Cars, hovercraft, flying cars, whatever don't. Not every colony is rich enough to ship an entire car assembly plant across space, much less the refineries, or even the cars or fuel.

It's a pretty common theme in SF actually, where it's often motivated additionally by planets settled by Green's who do not want the industry that automation brings.

In fact one might consider that Whedon and Jerry Pournelle are friends, and similar themes appear in Pournelle's CoDominium Future History, and maybe the beef between the Alliance and Independents reflects wars partially using up the Earth That Was, and the Alliance/American/Chinese supernation decides there will only be one nation from now on to prevent such disasters.


And yeah, Whedon always says he doesn't care about theology, mythology, or the actual occult in Buffy and Angel, he doesn't care about science in Firefly. He insists that the emotion is what is important to him.

[Diamedes]

It could well be that the US completed Manifest Destiny, but that the spanish elements were junior partners to begin with, and were just reduced to even less importance after the Sino-American alliance formed.

It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be one then the other.

[Coyote]

Another thing to bear in mind about the tech disparity is that lasers/blasters/whatever are tightly controlled by the government, and consider them to be military weapons not suitable for civilians. A lot of the bullet-slingers are either antiques kept in service, re-made from old plans, or whatever could be cobbled together from backwater machine shops.

The impression I got was that-- especially after the civil war-- the Alliance government saw frontier colonies as potential hotbeds of rebellion, so they try to keep them poor and low-tech so they cannot become much of a threat. Inner core worlds like Ariel are almost Trek-like with their "polished plastic and glass" look and aircars everywhere.

I didn't know this until watching "Alien: Resurrection" but Joss Whedon wrote that, too.

[Zac Naloen]

I didn't know this until watching "Alien: Resurrection" but Joss Whedon wrote that, too.

Joss whedons draft was heavily rewritten though, IIRC

[Stravo]

I didn't know this until watching "Alien: Resurrection" but Joss Whedon wrote that, too.

Joss whedons draft was heavily rewritten though, IIRC

I certainly hope so since that movie could hardly be called a point of pride in writing.

I will be watching disc 2 of the series over the weekend and will check in with any updates on my feelings about the series.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Despite how often characters like him are made one dimensional, I think Jayne is one of the deepest in the show.

[Stravo]

OK, finished watching Disc 2 which contains the episodes Shindig, Safe, Our Mrs. Reynolds and Jaynestown.

Overall the series is growing on me. I have grown to like the Captain, Mal, and his quirky sense of humor and odd sense of honor. (He has no problem killing people if he has to unlike other 'hero' characters that do everything possible to not kill people) He is also damned funny when he wants to be like in Our Mrs. Reynolds when he is reacting to the revelation that he is now married made me laugh out loud.

The preacher has grown from absolutely useless character to someone that doesn't bug me by his very presence. The mystery of who he was before he was a preacher is meaningless to me so in Safe when they did a big production of the Alliance officers snapping to to save him I just shrugged my shoulders.

Kaylee has gotten just a little more depth but they have not managed to make her anything more than a cute grease monkey. Her puppy dog romance with Simon is nice but certainly doesn't carry the same intensity and raw chemistry between Mal and Inara

Inara is beautiful (not Aeryn Sun gorgeous or Chianna hot mind you) but I love how smart she is and her nice regal attitude. Unfortunately she's the prostitute with the heart of gold one of the oldest charcater cliches since there was writing so it kind of bugs me a bit but I really like her chemistry with Mal and her reaction in Our Mrs. Reynolds when she finds out he's married and then when she thinks he's dead and finds out he's still alive just sells the whole romance. Very nice.

Simon I have to say I have grown to like him more than I thought I would. The Episode Safe concentrates on him and his relationship with River. He came off with a little more character depth than his first few episodes.

And speaking of River I finally got to like River whom I have not liked because she's the weirdo psycher that infests Sci Fio like roaches. My bigger complaint regarding her is writer's laziness. In Our Mrs. Reynolds she would have seen right through the spy's duplicity. So what happens? She just vanishes. Nowhere to be found. In fact Zoe calls for all hands to appear and meet the new bride, evetyone shows up BUT River. They're in space so where is she? The ship is in deep trouble, everyone is panicking - No River.

That's just fucking lazy man. Throw out a line that says she's doing something somewhere but don't just ignore a plot hole like that one so that your story works. For fuck's sake you wrote the character, you know what kind of troubles arise when you have a psi character in the picture. BEST Rain moment yet is her imitation of Badger's cockney accent as she breaks him down. WOW.

Jayne has become more than just a grunting gorilla to me. His comic relief has been spot on - for instance when he was drugged by Simon in the Train Heist and he tries to exert his control and slurs every word and just passes out. Jaynestown was so far his highpoint. Very good stuff and you begin to wonder whether you can trust Jayne if he turned on his previous partner. Great stuff and I apologize for writing him off so quickly.

Zoe - Yummy. I like her chemistty with her hubby and I find her more attarctive than Innara but that's because I like my ethnic lasses. Not a dumb charater or a side kick. She's smart and loyal.

And a little point that the fans seem so gaga over is this melding of Chinese American culture. Well,...where the hell are the Asians? China's population is much larger than ours to begin with as of now. So we should be seeing the exact opposite of what we see in this show. Lots of Asians, few Westerners. I can't think of ANY asians I've seen just yet.

I'm still not buying the premise - you really mean to tell me that in the future we wil dress like the Old West too? Sorry. It doesn't bother me anywhere near as badly as it did in the begininng but you're not going to convince me that its a believable futire setting.

But I'm starting to like this show but to tell you the truth Farscape grabbed me and didn't let me go from the Pilot onwards. This series is growing on me in spurts.

[Stofsk]

And a little point that the fans seem so gaga over is this melding of Chinese American culture. Well,...where the hell are the Asians? China's population is much larger than ours to begin with as of now. So we should be seeing the exact opposite of what we see in this show. Lots of Asians, few Westerners. I can't think of ANY asians I've seen just yet.

Nor can I, actually. The show's goddamn begging to have a chinese wiseass who corrects the bad pronounciation of all the other characters.

I'm still not buying the premise - you really mean to tell me that in the future we wil dress like the Old West too? Sorry. It doesn't bother me anywhere near as badly as it did in the begininng but you're not going to convince me that its a believable futire setting.

Fashions change in time.

But I'm starting to like this show but to tell you the truth Farscape grabbed me and didn't let me go from the Pilot onwards. This series is growing on me in spurts.

Farscape took me till somewhere in the middle of season one to really grab me. The premiere episode was... lack lustre to be honest. In comparison, Firefly's premiere was also pretty average. I stuck by it, and like you it grew on me.

Wait till you see Out of Gas, Ariel and Objects in Space.

[Spacebeard]

I'm still not buying the premise - you really mean to tell me that in the future we wil dress like the Old West too? Sorry. It doesn't bother me anywhere near as badly as it did in the begininng but you're not going to convince me that its a believable futire setting.

I really don't think that it's meant to be a believable future setting. Much like Cowboy Bebop to which it is often compared, Firefly is more about painting an interesting background for its stories than it is about building a plausible timeline. I tend to think of the setting as a fanciful alternate universe.

But I'm starting to like this show but to tell you the truth Farscape grabbed me and didn't let me go from the Pilot onwards. This series is growing on me in spurts.

The first episode which aired disappointed me, but I got hooked shortly afterwards. I think part of it, of course, is that I was exposed to very little hype before I decided to watch it. If I had approached it after hearing fanboys constantly rave about its unsurpassed greatness, I would probably have been more skeptical.

[SylasGaunt]

Unfortunately she's the prostitute with the heart of gold one of the oldest charcater cliches since there was writing so it kind of bugs me a bit

Well to be fair she's really more like a courtesan which seems to differentiate her somewhat from the usual hooker/HoG combo.

That's just fucking lazy man. Throw out a line that says she's doing something somewhere but don't just ignore a plot hole like that one so that your story works.

I think they might not actually know.. she does tend to kinda just wander around.

for instance when he was drugged by Simon in the Train Heist and he tries to exert his control and slurs every word and just passes out.

I love that part. "Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

[neoolong]

And a little point that the fans seem so gaga over is this melding of Chinese American culture. Well,...where the hell are the Asians? China's population is much larger than ours to begin with as of now. So we should be seeing the exact opposite of what we see in this show. Lots of Asians, few Westerners. I can't think of ANY asians I've seen just yet.

Nor can I, actually. The show's goddamn begging to have a chinese wiseass who corrects the bad pronounciation of all the other characters.

There are a couple. They're just in the background though so you have to be looking for them to see them.

[Il Saggiatore]

Very good stuff and you begin to wonder whether you can trust Jayne if he turned on his previous partner.

*cough* Ariel *cough*

Spoilerized because he's still watching the damn series. What are you, some kind of asshole?

[Stark]

Why is anyone trying to make someone like a show? People have different taste. I think Firefly kicks ass, and I think BSG is rubbish: who cares? Firefly works because, as Stravo has noted, its formulaic. It's not really scifi at all, and that's good, because scifi has this little thing where it usually sucks ass.

However, while I can see where he's coming from, but I'd love to know how he enjoys other scifi if he subjects them to this level of analysis.

[Stofsk]

Why is anyone trying to make someone like a show?

No-one is doing that. Stravo's thread was asking for commentary from people who've watched the show, and that's what's been given. I've made it a point to not try to convince Stravo he's going to enjoy the show. I'm just encouraging him in watching it.

It's not really scifi at all,

Yeah, it is. I don't think there's anything in the definition of 'scifi' which states it must automatically suck.

[Mobiboros]

I just started watching Firefly at the insistance of several friends. So far it seems ok. I was wondering about the Starship Troopers wardrobe myself, but I chalk it up to a new show having a low budget. It doesn't look bad anyway.

The characters seem like they have potential that they don't get enough time to truly develope (granted I'm only on episode 2 as well).

I plan on giving it a chance and then seeing the movie maybe.

Dune is fucking ridiculous in comparison. "OMG we got shieldz! We gotta bring back knivess/swordz!!!"

In Dune I was under the impression that they utilize knives for the same reason the Military still uses them today. They are useful. They are also mainly used by what would be 'special forces' or 'gentlemanly duelists' in the Duniverse. They have projectile weapons that work against the shields (basically they fire slow projectiles. You don't see them in the first book because on Arrakis you can't use shields.), they just can't use lasguns against shields is all.