Are there any linguists in the house?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-04-26 01:07am

Does anyone remember the TNG episode "Darmok" where an alien race spoke in metaphors which referenced their own history, hence their language was supposedly indecipherable?

I'm just wondering how many English words and phrases can be said to be similar. I know the word "marathon" is actually the name of an ancient place, and is an historical reference to the Battle of Marathon during the war between Ancient Greece and Persia (and more specifically, the runner who supposedly ran from Marathon to Athens to announce the Greek victory). But there are surely many, many other examples of words and phrases whose meaning is derived from historical events, aren't there?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-04-26 01:09am

A Phyric Victory I believe refers to a Greek general Named Phyrus who lost alot of troops fighting the nascent Roman Empire. Techinically victories he lamented that any more victories like that and he would lose the war.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-04-26 01:16am

Stravo wrote:A Phyric Victory I believe refers to a Greek general Named Phyrus who lost alot of troops fighting the nascent Roman Empire. Techinically victories he lamented that any more victories like that and he would lose the war.

Oh yeah, that's a good one (although I believe the proper spelling of the name is "Pyrrhus" and the proper spelling of the word is "Pyrrhic"). I also just remembered "Quixotic": a reference to the Don Quixote literary character.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-04-26 01:17am

"Ghetto" is the name of an island off the coast of Italy where Jews were forced to live during the reign of the Facist Party.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-26 01:19am

Achilles' Heel.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-26 01:22am

Others:

-Sadism
-Narcissism

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-04-26 01:28am

Ooooh, those are good ones.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-26 01:30am

Ah, the advantages of a classical education.

The words "lesbian" and "sapphic" come from the Ancient world. Sapphos was a classical poet, a woman, who wrote love poetry about other women, and she came from the island of Lesbos. So, the people thought that the women from Lesbos were into other women, so that's why they're called lesbian.

I know some more, I just have to remember them, and I'll post them.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-04-26 01:33am

Morphine -> Morpheus the god of dreams

Newtons! y'now, used to measure forces in physics per Isaac Newton?

do those count?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-04-26 01:37am

The English language is littered with such examples, simply because of our past affecting how the culture integrates new concepts. The etymology of most common words and phrases will likely be a long and interesting one that most are oblivious to.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2005-04-26 01:46am

So, basically what we are getting at is that the idea of a language being based on metaphors is nothing to write home about, instead most if not all of the alien languages should do the same... and even if they don't, ours do, which would actually mean that they should be EASIER, not harder to translate.

Not to mention that the stupid fucking Universal Translator is supposed to work with brainwaves or some shit, not words.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-04-26 01:50am

Stravo wrote:A Phyric Victory I believe refers to a Greek general Named Phyrus who lost alot of troops fighting the nascent Roman Empire. Techinically victories he lamented that any more victories like that and he would lose the war.

It is the other way around. A roman general fighting the greeks before the battle of Pydna

The words "lesbian" and "sapphic" come from the Ancient world. Sapphos was a classical poet, a woman, who wrote love poetry about other women, and she came from the island of Lesbos. So, the people thought that the women from Lesbos were into other women, so that's why they're called lesbian.

The part obout Sapphos is right, but she actually formed a colony of women on the island of lesbos

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-26 01:57am

Alyrium Denryle wrote: The part obout Sapphos is right, but she actually formed a colony of women on the island of lesbos

That's odd. According to my Dictionary of Classical Mythologies, it says she was born there.

Maybe she was born there, and then started a colony for women there herself?

Oh well, we're on the same page.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-04-26 02:01am

Castor Troy wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: The part obout Sapphos is right, but she actually formed a colony of women on the island of lesbos
That's odd. According to my Dictionary of Classical Mythologies, it says she was born there.

Maybe she was born there, and then started a colony for women there herself?

Oh well, we're on the same page.

I am going on what I learned in Humanities last year... and my humanities teacher waxed masturbatory to ancient greek philosopher poets... she may have been a shaving grizzely bear who hated science, but she knew her greeks.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-04-26 02:09am

I can't believe no one's mentioned Sodomy yet.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-26 02:14am

That reminded me: the Tower of Babylon and "babbeling".

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-04-26 02:29am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Stravo wrote:A Phyric Victory I believe refers to a Greek general Named Phyrus who lost alot of troops fighting the nascent Roman Empire. Techinically victories he lamented that any more victories like that and he would lose the war.
It is the other way around. A roman general fighting the greeks before the battle of Pydna

Pyrrus, Greek King of Epirus thought himself the saviour of the western Greek cities against the growing power of the Roman Republic. Winning several tactical victories, he failed to gain a strategic advantage and ultimately had to withdraw. Hence, "Pyrric" victory.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-04-26 02:31am

Bite the Bullet: what you do to not scream when the surgeon takes your leg with a saw and no anesthetic.

Hanging on tenter hooks: from the medieval cloth industry.

Seen the Elephant: have been to war

To be a patsi: from the name of an unfortunate Italian who was one.

Quisling: from the name of a Nazi collaborator.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-04-26 02:32am

I damn near forgot. "Hooker" comes from the Civil War, where IIRC the Union had a General who liked to bang prostitutes, hence they call them "hookers".

nesaminos · Post by **nesaminos** » 2005-04-26 02:33am

Some more examples:

Draconian
Cyclopean
Arcadia
Myrmidons
Odyssey
Midas Touch
Augean Stable
Croesus
Dragon's Teeth

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2005-04-26 02:48am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:I can't believe no one's mentioned Sodomy yet.

Or sandwich, particularly when used as a verb ("The made the shelves stronger by using panels sandwiched together"). It's an action describing the construction of a food item named after its inventor. What if the other culture lacks such a food item?

That goes double for spoonerisms.

I think what'd be more difficult is translating between one language from a culture which all but totally lacks sarcasm and one that structurally is often inherently sarcastic. How do you note when "that's really great" means the exact opposite using the terms of someone that's mostly blind to such a notion?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-04-26 02:54am

Spoonerisms.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-04-26 03:00am

The expression "Pandora's Box". From Greek Mythology, where a woman named Pandora opened the box that contained every disease and let them out into the world to be the scourge of mankind.

Molotov cocktail, originally from the improvised weapon of gasoline filled booze bottles set on fire with aflaming rag and tossed on Soviet tanks to destroy them by Finnish soldiers in the Winter War. Named after the Soviet foreign minister, a cocktail that we would like to have offered to him personally, so the Soviet soldiers got it as his proxies.

Edi

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-04-26 03:03am

Virtually all expressions come from peoples' names. "Crap," or "To take a crap" and all of its various offshoots from from Thomas Crapper (inventer of the toilet).

"The whole nine yards" comes from WWII aircraft, which were supposedly loaded with 9 yards of ammunition.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-04-26 03:04am

Sideburns were named after the Civil War general Ambrose Burnside who had that particular style of facial hair and made it famous.

Edi